Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 41
08-09-2012, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maelwy5 View Post

Sorry, afraid you have it wrong there.

The 5% power recharge speed granted by the MACO set bonus is a flat 5% recharge time buff to all your ABILITIES. (e.g. cooldown times for all powers are reduced, like when using Aux2Bat with Technician DOFFs)

+ Screenshot #1 (Unbuffed)
+ Screenshot #2 (With MACO Bonus, note recharge time change from 2.0 to 1.9)

I've been doing DPS tests for the better part of a fortnight, and I keep kicking myself whenever I forget to remove the MACO deflector because this happens and it skews the results

Whereas an EPS Console just influences your SHIP POWER SYSTEM TRANSFER RATE (e.g. the amount of time it takes to go from 100 engine power to 50 engine power)

I suppose the way the M.A.C.O. text description is worded it's a bit unclear though...
..... i don't know what to think of that. wow an actual reason to use more then just the maco shield, who would have thought. station powers cooldown reduced by %5 too i imagine? i don't think this is well known...
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 42
08-09-2012, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
..... i don't know what to think of that. wow an actual reason to use more then just the maco shield, who would have thought. station powers cooldown reduced by %5 too i imagine? i don't think this is well known...
Yup, it affects BOFF powers and Player Ability powers - anything with a recharge time.

It's a pretty nice buff by itself, slight DPS increase on weapons themselves (bit more impact on DHCs than the rest due to the 2 sec rather than 1 sec recharge time) and ability usage.

But it also stacks with any other bonuses, meaning you can sometimes change your build around a bit:
e.g. usually in order to get by with only one copy of Tac Team, you need 2x Conn Officer DOFFs. However with the MACO bonus, a Single Purple Conn Officer DOFF can very nearly cap it out on their own (1x Purple DOFF reduces the 30 second cooldown by 8 secs, The MACO bonus drops it by another 3 seconds [60 sec base recharge time - 5% of 60 is 3] for a total of 11 seconds of recharge time reduction. The DOFF recharge bonuses don't kick in until after about 1.5 seconds into the cooldown no matter how many DOFFs you slot, so assuming you've skilled up Tac Team to get it down to a 30 second cooldown, the most another Conn DOFF could grant is another 2.5 second reduction)

Note: I'm still not sure whether or not that "recharge buffs not kicking in until 1.5-into-the-cooldown" business means the MACO bonus affects non-DHC weapons (1.0 second recharge time). It definitely affects DHCs though (2 second recharge time).

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]

Last edited by maelwy5; 08-09-2012 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Edit: checked numbers + added link
Captain
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# 43
08-09-2012, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
..... i don't know what to think of that. wow an actual reason to use more then just the maco shield, who would have thought. station powers cooldown reduced by %5 too i imagine? i don't think this is well known...
After looking at numbers, I've decided I'm going to try MACO Shield/Deflector with Borg Engine/Console.

As soon as I get the @#$%ing elusive Shield Tech to drop . . .
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# 44
08-09-2012, 02:21 PM
i just checked in game and it does reduce that cooldown for weapons, but it didn't change the listed dps any. it should have. i alerted opvp and i know at least 1 other person is going to check it out
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# 45
08-09-2012, 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
i just checked in game and it does reduce that cooldown for weapons, but it didn't change the listed dps any. it should have. i alerted opvp and i know at least 1 other person is going to check it out
Kk.

I didnt take the time to create a screenshot because the dmg was so marginal i couldnt really say if it was really from the 5% cooldown reduction or not. in any case the total damage increase was less then 5% difference from using and not using the magnetoplasma relays. (As expected)

Captain
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# 46
08-09-2012, 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marctraiderz View Post
Kk.

I didnt take the time to create a screenshot because the dmg was so marginal i couldnt really say if it was really from the 5% cooldown reduction or not. in any case the total damage increase was less then 5% difference from using and not using the magnetoplasma relays. (As expected)

I'd imagine the DPS increase would be pretty slim and difficult to measure... but there should be a fairly straightforward way to test if the effects of the set bonus are actually working on weapons themselves: if it's being affected, a DHC should be able to fit an extra firing cycle into a 90 second period (Standard DHC: 2 sec recharge + 1 sec firing time = 30 cycles in 90 seconds. Buffed DHC: 1.9 sec recharge + 1 sec firing time = 31 cycles in 89.9 seconds)

I can verify from memory that it does work for reducing BOFF power recharge times. But I've not sat down with a stopwatch and counted weapon shots yet. And it's 1am here, so I'm a bit hesitant to start tonight... maybe tomorrow afternoon if nobody's beaten me to it by then!

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
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# 47
08-09-2012, 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marctraiderz View Post
Kk.

I didnt take the time to create a screenshot because the dmg was so marginal i couldnt really say if it was really from the 5% cooldown reduction or not. in any case the total damage increase was less then 5% difference from using and not using the magnetoplasma relays. (As expected)

kinda figured, a 10th of a second for dhcs and a half a 10th for everything else aint much. now if it actually cut the cooldown between cycles in half then we might have something. 5% is nothing in this case.
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# 48
08-10-2012, 12:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
kinda figured, a 10th of a second for dhcs and a half a 10th for everything else aint much. now if it actually cut the cooldown between cycles in half then we might have something. 5% is nothing in this case.
Assuming it's working, I'd expect it to work out as a 3.33% boost to the output of DHCs (0.1/3.0) and a 1.67% boost to turrets, cannons etc (0.05/3.0). Longer cooldown weapons like Torps (particularly Trics?) would be more heavilly affected. Since that'd be an overall or "after buffs" damage increase, not a base damage increase like with APO or Tac Consoles, I'd imagine it'd stack up pretty favourably against the likes of Tetryon Glider even before considering the cooldown decrease on BOFF abilities. It'd certainly be more than the difference between, say, running MkXII or MkXI Tac consoles.

Whether it IS working that way or not remains to be seen. I'm not 100% sure if server ticks (the shortest amount of time in which anything can happen) would allow for it to make any difference for DHCs, but I'll count a few shots later today after work.

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
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# 49
08-10-2012, 06:57 AM
No.

"a DHC should be able to fit an extra firing cycle into a 90 second period"

And that is why. Even if that number is absolutely true it effectively adds up to "nothing".


"Longer cooldown weapons like Torps (particularly Trics?) would be more heavilly affected. Since that'd be an overall or "after buffs" damage increase, not a base damage increase"

No it wouldn't. Unless of course the weapons were only ever fired when a buff of some sort was available.

"I'd imagine it'd stack up pretty favourably against the likes of Tetryon Glider "

If you're referring to the shield drain then sure it would be favorable. If your target started with no shields. Otherwise "No".


I suppose this is interesting in a "Why do I keep losing at Tic Tac Toe" sort of way but the practical applications are less apparent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tic-tac-toe

In case anyone gets bored in here.
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# 50
08-10-2012, 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
No.
Do I detect a hint of Negativity?

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying "no" to here though... since I don't see any claim I made which isn't direct extrapolation from the numbers being quoted by the UI...

If your argument is that more shots over a given time period translates to "nothing", well then you might as well say "Cannon Rapid Fire is useless" - because it accomplishes much the same thing, simply reducing the firing time instead of the recharge time. True, the MACO bonus is a lot less potent, but it'd still be measurable over longer durations.

At the very least you'd get slightly more procs going off and less time between volleys of cannon fire - we'd be talking about a few 10ths of a second faster, yes, but in practice that could make the difference between someone getting a lifesaving buff or heal off or not before you kill them.

This all assumes that the MACO bonus does in fact work this way, which is what I'd still like to test.


Quote:
If you're referring to the shield drain then sure it would be favorable. If your target started with no shields. Otherwise "No".
The quote in question was "Since that'd be an overall or "after buffs" damage increase, not a base damage increase like with APO or Tac Consoles, I'd imagine it'd stack up pretty favourably against the likes of Tetryon Glider even before considering the cooldown decrease on BOFF abilities."

I highly suspect that any weapons themselves being affected is not really the intended part of the MACO buff at all - it's marketed as an Ability Recharge Buff, anything else is simply a nice side effect (and I'm interested to find out how far that side effect stretches, hence all the talk about weapon recharge testing)

That said, I was indeed talking about the shield drain. At least for DHCs.

Turrets and other energy weaponry would stack up less favourably certainly, even if the recharge buff actually affects them. But the MACO boost would require no investment into Flow Capacitors etc. to hit its maximum effectiveness. And you're STILL got the ability cooldown reductions to consider...

Shaving 5% from the base recharge of all your clickable powers with a permanent passive ability is nothing to be sneezed at.

Quote:
I suppose this is interesting in a "Why do I keep losing at Tic Tac Toe" sort of way but the practical applications are less apparent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tic-tac-toe

In case anyone gets bored in here.
I love TicTacToe.

I remember coding a version of it back in school that could never lose. Some classmates of mine spent hours of frustration trying to beat it... until they realised that there were only so many possible combinations that "won", and whilst they had discovered some of them, the computer knew them all. It wasn't until they had tried out every possible way, learning by experience, that they finally knew the game back-to-front and could force the computer to a stalemate.

[EDIT]
Got some testing done this afternoon.

Over a 180 second period, using autofire with one weapon:

1xDHC (No MACO) = 106 Shots (53 Cycles, average of 3.4 Seconds per cycle)
1xDHC (MACO) = 110 Shots (55 Cycles, average of 3.27 Seconds per cycle)

1x Quantum Launcher (No MACO) = 17 Shots (average of 10.6 Seconds per cycle)
1x Quantum Launcher (MACO) = 22 Shots (average of 8.2 Seconds per cycle)

Looks like it's working, at least for autofire.
[/EDIT]

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]

Last edited by maelwy5; 08-10-2012 at 11:16 AM.
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