Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 9
Hi all, new player here, after some advice on a build & layout for an Odyssey Operations Cruiser for normal STFs

Mostly I'm doing Borg STFs at the moment and my plan is to run interference on probes/spheres/raptors/BoP's etc, and to support the heavy damage dealers. My gear is terrible atm but I'm considering Antiproton Beam Banks or Arrays. I find EWP with Tractor Beam great in Borg STFs and I currently have a Tractor Mine Launcher fitted to help when TB is on cooldown.

Here is the build I am using atm:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...d=EngOdyssey_0

I would greatly appreciate any advice on this build & setup!

I know I'm never going to be the biggest DPS as an Engineer in an Odyssey Op but my aim is to be an asset in an STF, able to support the team and be generally useful
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,049
# 2
08-08-2012, 12:44 AM
Your link doesn't resolve correctly, it has '...' in the middle of the URL.

As some general advice, though, you'll want to load down your engineering slots with armor - either whatever it is that's plasma resistant with whatever it is that's kinetic resistant, or neutronium. I recommend neutronium because eventually there's diminishing returns on the armor.

I would also recommend that you use Field Emitters for your science slots. Don't bother with RCS - although I am a heretic and advocate an RCS on the Assault Cruiser and even the Galaxy class, it hardly registers on an Ody, and you have saucer sep anyway.

You'll want to max spec on the hull and shield repair skills (names don't come off the top of my head), and the hull and shield HP skills (again, not off the top of my head). You'll want at least a 6 in Starship Shield Performance, and the starship hull reinforcement and armor stats as well. Other stats to dump points into would be Electro-Plasma Systems (don't bother with an EPS console, the stat does more) and Starship Aux Performance, as well as Warp Core Potential and (probably) Warp Core Efficiency. You can probably also do with Starship Impulse Thruster boosts and Starship Maneuvers to boost your Defense rating, as well, and in the case of the former, help the Ody's unsightly turn rate a tad. Threat Control is, of course, the best way to get the enemy after you and will also boost your Defense.

If you're super-devoted to this goal you could clear out your character and make a new one with new traits. The Leadership trait (captain only, the BOff one seems broken in every experiment I've done, and the people I've asked in Zone chat claim it is and their 'proof' consists of 'because I had some guy shoot me,' basically) is helpful, but only available on humans. Elusive helps with Defense. Warp Theorist gives a boost to all of your power levels by about +.5, and boosts Electro-Plasma Systems by +10, giving you some help for Emergency Power abilities. Techie is IMO a waste, because it "saves" you fewer points than any other space-based skill, but if you're absolutely utterly devoted to tanking you can pick this up for slightly improved hull repair. Efficient Captain is also good for power, although I prefer Warp Theorist myself, and it's not as good as I'm told it used to be.

In terms of BOff powers you'll want to chain EPtS3, two copies, or EPtS3 and EPtS2 (if you want to use the Lt. Cmdr Universal for a non-engineering BOff). Cmdr engineering slot should go to Aux2SIF3, and that should be chained as well (you only need one copy - 15 second cooldown time gives you a decent hull heal every 15 seconds with 10 seconds of improved hull resistance. Carrying a copy of ET will not hurt, either. The science BOff should have Hazard Emitters, and perhaps Polarize Hull. You may also want Reverse Shield Polarity (I forget if that's an engineering or science power, but it's an option of near-last resort - though you have Rotate Shield Frequencies and Miracle Worker so you shouldn't need it often, if ever). You may also want to carry ST for the debuff-clearing. But remember that all the Team powers have the same cooldown, so they'll be fighting for your "attention." In order to grab aggro, BFaW is fantastic, so you'll probably want to pack that. Torp Spread is somewhat helpful, but nothing really gets aggro, or so I've noticed, better than the in-your-face-for-15-seconds beam spam from BFaW. In fact, in my non-Threat Control spec'd captains I can often draw aggro better than anyone else just because I FaW'd everyone in range in the face.

You'll want TT for automatic shield redistribution. You will probably want either the Aegis set or 3 pieces of the Borg set with the MACO shield. You can run two copies and chain it, or one copy with the appropriate cooldown-cutting DOffs.

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. Good luck, and remember to re-post your build URL and make sure it works, please.

Last edited by red01999; 08-08-2012 at 12:54 AM.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 9
# 3
08-08-2012, 01:48 AM
Awesome, thanks for that, very very helpful!

Don't know what happened with that link, here it is, hopefully working this time!
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...d=EngOdyssey_0

I'll tweak it based on your suggestions, for example I avoided Threat Control initially since I didn't feel I had good enough gear to risk being the "tank" yet! I'll post back later with a re-worked build

Thanks again, much appreciated!
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 9
# 4
08-08-2012, 02:11 AM
OK, here's a tweaked build:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...=EngOdyssey7_0

I've taken ST rather than Polarize Hull, but that can easily be changed. Similarly, I've put Tractor Beam in the ensign universal console because I find it very useful in Borg STFs, but it's easily swapped out.

Last edited by apocryphai; 08-08-2012 at 06:08 AM.
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 20
# 5
08-09-2012, 08:56 AM
Reroll a ferengi /end thread.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 190
# 6
08-09-2012, 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by apocryphai View Post
OK, here's a tweaked build:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...=EngOdyssey7_0

I've taken ST rather than Polarize Hull, but that can easily be changed. Similarly, I've put Tractor Beam in the ensign universal console because I find it very useful in Borg STFs, but it's easily swapped out.
The warp core efficiency/potential and performances don't need to be more than 6 points. (only nets 1 more power at 9 points).

Other than that (even for Elite STF's) it looks fine.
Normals are pretty easy. You could pretty much get away with just about any build on those. I've succeeded with some strange builds on normals, but too inefficient to try on elites.

My build and boff loadout is pretty different from yours, but mine is geared for tanking, not interference.

I would recommend putting Polarize hull back in though. Getting tractored then high-yield plasma torpedoed hurts. A lot.

I think most people would use the universal ensign station for a tactical ability.
But, there's a lot you could do with it.
Were it me, shooting for interference on nanite probes in infected space, maybe Polarize 1, Repulsors 1 then Hazards 1?

Hope that helps!
-------------------------
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]

"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,049
# 7
08-09-2012, 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by apocryphai View Post
OK, here's a tweaked build:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...=EngOdyssey7_0

I've taken ST rather than Polarize Hull, but that can easily be changed. Similarly, I've put Tractor Beam in the ensign universal console because I find it very useful in Borg STFs, but it's easily swapped out.
Now that I can see this build, I can say that the second iteration is definitely an improvement.

As an earlier poster pointed out, going +9 for Warp Core Efficiency and Warp Core Potential is not terribly wise, particularly Warp Core Potential.

Although I don't recall the exact equation for warp core efficiency (if you want to figure out the nitty-gritty, search the forum for the Power Calculator spreadsheet for season 5) warp core potential is this:

Every Subsystem = +(Warp Core Potential Stat / 20)

Note, if you are new to this, this does NOT MEAN the actual level, this means the stat. The numbers on the right side of the planner at STOAcademy show it. It's +54 at level 3, +84 at level 6, and +99 at level 9.

This means that at level 6, you get an additional (84 / 20) = 4.2 power to each subsystem. At (99 / 20), you get an additional 4.95 to each subsystem. This is comparatively speaking very pathetic, and is essentially, IMO, almost a waste of 6000 points. I would also personally advocate Starship Projectile Weapons not have more than 3 spent on it, if you are specializing for an Odyssey. This is because people say that the Odyssey is a space whale; however, this is inaccurate. It does not quite capture just how bad the situation is. The Ody is more of a fortress that by sheer coincidence someone decided to stick engines on. During saucer sep it becomes very agile, but nevertheless, you're probably not going to be spending TOO much time separated. So in short, you will not be using the torps as often as you'd like. That said, I wouldn't drain it off entirely, because you do still use them.

Similarly (although you already drained these off), the system Performance skills at the Captain and Admiral levels provide diminishing returns very similar to Warp Core Potential. This is because their bonus works like this:

Specific Subsystem = + (Subsystem Performance / 10).

So at level 6 you get +8.4 power and at level 9 you get +9.9 power. Not exactly the best investment, that.

The spare points - especially from Warp Core Potential - would probably be better spent on Subsystem Repairs (less useful than you'd think, but still somewhat helpful, especially when fighting opponents with phasers) or Power Insulators (good against drains to at least some extent). Other useful skills to put these bonus points into MAY include Graviton Generators and Flow Capacitors as they are said to help Tractor Beam (I have no idea if they would be worth ANYTHING or not). Furthermore, if you care about ground AT ALL I would push Repairs up to at LEAST 3. I love my turrets and generators, but if you're not up for the pet spam, Repair at the very least helps you immensely with keeping your shields up - once you get the MACO set and use its shield capacitor, combined with your own shield recharge skill that just comes with being an engineer, you'll have quite a bit of endurance!

Note that Warp Core Potential helps to showcase the impact of 'diminishing returns' in stats in general, actually, in terms of the impact that each level brings. Despite this, because you are a tank, I would not drain off HP-based skills that are maxed out - they're relatively cheap, and they should be there, so having the repair and HP skills at max are good. So is Starship Weapons Training - it's cheap and important enough to warrant a little "waste" there.

I would also consider bumping Science Team 1 in favor of Polarize Hull 1, for its utility in escaping tractor beams. Inertial dampeners will only go so far to protect you from them, although someone more experienced than I am would probably be a better judge of that. You may also want to switch to phasers or disruptors if your captain does not have the Accurate trait, because APs really shine the most over other types when you have lots of accuracy for the AP procs to build on.

Anyway, these are just my opinions and I could be wrong. Good luck!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 190
# 8
08-09-2012, 07:36 PM
I mostly agree. There are a few points where I have a different opinion/experience:

Quote:
Originally Posted by red01999 View Post
I would also personally advocate Starship Projectile Weapons not have more than 3 spent on it, if you are specializing for an Odyssey. This is because people say that the Odyssey is a space whale; however, this is inaccurate. It does not quite capture just how bad the situation is. The Ody is more of a fortress that by sheer coincidence someone decided to stick engines on. During saucer sep it becomes very agile, but nevertheless, you're probably not going to be spending TOO much time separated. So in short, you will not be using the torps as often as you'd like. That said, I wouldn't drain it off entirely, because you do still use them.
It's not THAT bad. If I want to get my torps on something, I will.
Maybe I've just been flying cruisers a long time, and am used to it.
Sometimes it takes a second to do, but with a fore and aft torp, it works.

More on Specializations later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by red01999 View Post
The spare points - especially from Warp Core Potential - would probably be better spent on Subsystem Repairs (less useful than you'd think, but still somewhat helpful, especially when fighting opponents with phasers) or Power Insulators (good against drains to at least some extent). Other useful skills to put these bonus points into MAY include Graviton Generators and Flow Capacitors as they are said to help Tractor Beam (I have no idea if they would be worth ANYTHING or not).
Subsystem repair is arguably useless. I very rarely see any builds offered with any points in it. If you pack batteries, a red matter capacitor or a engineering team, they can negate that skill entirely.
Power Insulators and Inertial Dampers are both decent. Even with 3-4 points.
Flow capacitors do not help Tractor beams. If you have a Tractor Beam doff for shield drain, only then will it help, but only the shield drain part of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by red01999 View Post
You may also want to switch to phasers or disruptors if your captain does not have the Accurate trait, because APs really shine the most over other types when you have lots of accuracy for the AP procs to build on.
If he was trying to min/max, I'd agree to an extent.
As it is, I leave Antiproton to my tacs (with acc trait, 6+ points in energy weapon specialization and Attack pattern Alpha = higher crit chance), they will play to their strengths.
Since Specializations increase crit chance/severity, I think the bonus is somewhat small, unless factoring in other things, like AP: Alpha. (STOwiki: EWS)

If he's not trying to min/max, I'd say... use what you like. Read the procs, and pick one you think sounds helpful for what you're trying to accomplish.
-------------------------
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]

"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 9
# 9
08-09-2012, 11:09 PM
OK, here's what it's looking like now after reading your comments:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...Interference_0

I've reduced a few of the expensive 9 point skills and bumped up the cheaper shield skills and got repairs.

I've also decided to ditch Tractor Beam entirely so that I can get both Polarize Hull *and* Science Team - I hate being stuck in a Tractor Beam and that instant shield boost comes in very handy sometimes.

I do have the Accuracy trait, and I chose Antiprotons because the 20% crit severity seemed like it would *always* be useful. The other sensible-looking options were Plasma & Disruptor. There seems to be some confusion over whether the Disruptor debuff stacks and AP looks cooler than Plasma...

I wouldn't say I'm trying to min/max, it's just that respeccing is expensive so I want to get it right! I'm very grateful for all your comments, feels like I've learned a lot from this.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 190
# 10
08-10-2012, 04:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by apocryphai View Post
OK, here's what it's looking like now after reading your comments:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...Interference_0

I've reduced a few of the expensive 9 point skills and bumped up the cheaper shield skills and got repairs.

I've also decided to ditch Tractor Beam entirely so that I can get both Polarize Hull *and* Science Team - I hate being stuck in a Tractor Beam and that instant shield boost comes in very handy sometimes.

I do have the Accuracy trait, and I chose Antiprotons because the 20% crit severity seemed like it would *always* be useful. The other sensible-looking options were Plasma & Disruptor. There seems to be some confusion over whether the Disruptor debuff stacks and AP looks cooler than Plasma...

I wouldn't say I'm trying to min/max, it's just that respeccing is expensive so I want to get it right! I'm very grateful for all your comments, feels like I've learned a lot from this.
Looks pretty good.
There's no real need to go past the 66,000 necessary points in ground, but that is all personal preference. As long as you're happy with it
If you were trying to tank, there are a few small things I'd change, but for what you're shooting for, I think you'll be fine.

You should have no problems on normal STF's.
That build could handle elites, once you get a feel for it.

Oh... not skill-related, but I prefer Transfer Shield Strength to science team.
Sci team's only real use is for removing certain debuffs, but borg don't use those.
TSS is a decent shield heal over time, and adds a little shield damage resistance (and can be used on you or a teammate).
Used with Tac Team and rotate shield frequencies, it makes your shields really tough.

But, as those two are Boff abilities, try them out at your leisure and decide which you prefer.

I hope that's somewhat helpful!
Good luck with the new setup
-------------------------
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]

"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
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