Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 64
# 111
08-15-2012, 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
BUT, here is the thing: it's open entry for Fleet mark events, and there's a pathetic little 30 minute wait if you feel like storming off like the very favoured son of Zeus because your army isn't up to your personal standard.

Let me give you a little hint: NOBODY WILL NOTICE, nobody will say "But why won't he stay?" Nobody. They'll say "Douchebag ditched us." and that's the end of it-because nobody CARES how many straight hours you have at the keyboard, how masterfully you've developed your character's income stream, or how you've beaten the game so many times you can do it sleeping-upside-down in a Hurricane, powered by two d-cell batteries and a case of red-bull.

The key here, is that nobody CARES why you feel you're being cheated of your due, they don't care, because NOBODY OWES YOU ANYTHING. MOST players here are Casual players, they don't spend 8-12+ Hours a day grinding STF's and reading the tip-threads on how to have the perfect build for STF, PvP, or PvE play. MOST players don't have Millions of EC accumulated with 20 different toons dating back to the Beta Test, vast stores of Dilithium, and more than half the Z/C store's stock in their inventories plus all the lockbox crap.

You are OUT NUMBERED. Fleet events are structured for people who maybe, at most, will spend a couple hours on the game a night, maybe as many as six on weekends, who just WANT TO PLAY. "Max Fleetmarks" is an Objective, not a Right to be Guaranteed.

Can you comprehend that? Can you comprehend someone feeling they've done well if they pull 25 or 30 FM out of a fifteen minute event, because they don't DO STO as a JOB substitute?


And can you comprehend the group of earned and experienced capable players working hard, grumbling the same thing back that why do we have to suffer LESS marks and missions taking sooo long because of this noob screwing it up? And that happens 99% of the time with PUGS with noobs in it. Do you think we care if the noob heard us grumbling? No we just dump his low butt on ignore.

So your argument is more or less JEALOUSY that a capable team can do what a noob can't. Hence the whole Zeus comment.

It just appear no matter what, that the ones who have earned their place, played their dues played properly and didn't bail are suddenly such Elitist bad guys for doing so now.

Feel free to ignore me anytime.
Too Bad, So Sad
PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.


Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 64
# 112
08-15-2012, 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
if you don't care, why come back and post here anyway. I can understand that you like to play this game in a more casual fashion, and that you feel kind of jealous about people that have achieved more in this game.
But what you do, is actually dismissing good advices to improve your game, and maybe add to a more sattisfying experiance or be more successfull in general in this game.
My advice is ment for players at the beginning, that take the game not as casual as you do, and maybe want to improve over time.
And nobody needs to play more than 6 hours a week to actually be ontop...1h a day is enough.
Well said and my sentiments exactly.
Too Bad, So Sad
PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.


Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,683
# 113
08-15-2012, 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fogerty1 View Post
And can you comprehend the group of earned and experienced capable players working hard, grumbling the same thing back that why do we have to suffer LESS marks and missions taking sooo long because of this noob screwing it up? And that happens 99% of the time with PUGS with noobs in it. Do you think we care if the noob heard us grumbling? No we just dump his low butt on ignore.

So your argument is more or less JEALOUSY that a capable team can do what a noob can't. Hence the whole Zeus comment.

It just appear no matter what, that the ones who have earned their place, played their dues played properly and didn't bail are suddenly such Elitist bad guys for doing so now.

Feel free to ignore me anytime.
Ya' know? I'm one of those guys who regularly gets the objectives on Colony defense while the rest of the team is shooting stuff. I personally do everything I can to make sure that my team gets the most marks possible. Yeah it annoys me when the other guys ignore the objectives. But... Enh... I can live with it.... especially when we're stuck fighting Breen.... Ugh.... I hate them....
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,659
# 114
08-16-2012, 02:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fogerty1 View Post
And can you comprehend the group of earned and experienced capable players working hard, grumbling the same thing back that why do we have to suffer LESS marks and missions taking sooo long because of this noob screwing it up? And that happens 99% of the time with PUGS with noobs in it. Do you think we care if the noob heard us grumbling? No we just dump his low butt on ignore.

So your argument is more or less JEALOUSY that a capable team can do what a noob can't. Hence the whole Zeus comment.

It just appear no matter what, that the ones who have earned their place, played their dues played properly and didn't bail are suddenly such Elitist bad guys for doing so now.

Feel free to ignore me anytime.
Capable teams come from somewhere, and it's not grinding solo-player content, (something you SHOULD already know and understand).

The AI is...limited, the intro missions don't provide the right kind of input to build capable team members-but you can reach VA with a rainbow cruiser and all the wrong BOFFS in all the wrong places, because the AI is..well...not very bright.

there are a couple things you seem to be completely incapable of processing, maybe I wasn't direct enough.

1) Max score is not a "Right" you gain by being here a long, long time, it's not a "Right" you were guaranteed in the EULA, and no amount of temper-tantrum is going to MAKE it a right. The Development team has an obligation to generate content that caters to a broad audience-the broader, the better, esp. since the Internet is FILLED with alternatives to draw the gamer dollar/Euro/Yuan/etc.

MMO's thrive on developing something called 'Community", there isn't a whole lot of room for elitist entitlement garbage in a game that wants to be financially sound enough that its financiers, creditors, and owners don't feel the urge to pull the plug.

While your arguments and position have both validity, and merit from a certain perspective, it is the harsh reality of business that makes your complaint, frankly, irrelevant in the larger scale of things-as in, you dislike a rule incorporated based on a model of civility to which you do not subscribe-but to which MOST other people DO.

Nobody held a gun to your head and made you join that que, nobody is forcing you to stay-but there is an opportunity cost if you leave. This is NORMAL BUSiNESS-see, the Devs want to KEEP those "Noobz" long enough for them to not-be-new anymore, your attitude does not assist in this endeavour, it is counter-productive to the survival of the game, which you do not seem to be capable of getting.

Now, as to the post you quoted-I was replying to Baudl in that tone very specifically. YOUR arguments are clear, have some evidentiary basis, and have been (other htan the urgent rants about Sollvax, whom you apparently have some kind of feud with on a personal level) well organized and civil.

(or at least as civil as one can expect on a gaming forum for an MMO...)

2) while I may sympathize with your desire NOT to be saddled with a less-than-optimal team in an event, and I may even see the validity of your opposition to the "Leaver penalty", I know that the market is cut-throat for MMO's, it's one of the main reasons STO went "Free To Play"-there were equivalent offerings that cost a lot less than the sub fee and frankly, it needs to be competitive to survive-which means adopting the economic model that WORKS-which in turn influences game-play and things like Fleet Events.


There is a third point as well: Fleet Mark events are PUGs, not only that, but, given the value and importance of FM's in Season 6, they're a gamble as well. What you see as a defect, is a feature designed IN to the Fleet Mark event-it acts as a brake on fleet-mark inflation, by keeping the accumulation relatively controlled (using average scores across the entire community, think "House odds" at the local casino.)

This means, on average, there will be one or two players of your experience (note, not Toons, PLAYERS), a couple of casuals, and a genuinely NEW player-that's the model. Early departure skews the averages and malfunctions the balance built into the scenarios (Three fairly experienced players are really all that's needed to win Incursion at each stage, and there are methods to make use of a New player who's willing to listen/read, provided there is opportunity.) A win in this case being over 50% of the maximum possible FM's at the end of the run, with a large number of Sabos killed in round 1, all four 'protected' sabos down by the end of round 2, and the enemy Captain dead at the end of round 3.

But that doesn't cover the full intent of Fleet Mark events...because there is a secondary reason why they are structured the way they are-to condition NEW players away from the "Solo against the idiot AI/no mistake matters" nature of the mission content, toward learning how to team for STF's...because most players don't read the Forums, and after VA it's hard to find missions where you ARE NOT needing a real-live player covering your back. (Try soloing the base on Nukara... not the outdoor stuff, the BASE, all three levels.)

So, they're training ground, introductions, and enticements to new players to dig deeper...and VA's taking off with (usually) some snide invective is counter to the game design for those events, because they turn people off- "THe community is full of douchebags" is NOT what you want if you actually WANT the game to survive.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,013
# 115
08-16-2012, 03:22 AM
Quote:
But that doesn't cover the full intent of Fleet Mark events...because there is a secondary reason why they are structured the way they are-to condition NEW players away from the "Solo against the idiot AI/no mistake matters" nature of the mission content, toward learning how to team for STF's...because most players don't read the Forums, and after VA it's hard to find missions where you ARE NOT needing a real-live player covering your back. (Try soloing the base on Nukara... not the outdoor stuff, the BASE, all three levels.)
that may be so, but it is wrong in my opinion...the time it takes people to reach VA is ridiculous short compared to any other MMO. Adding new and harder content to new players is insane! It is overwhelming and frustrating...especiall at the start of a game there shouldn't be any negative experiances. And beeing called a noob, while true, is not very motivating for somebody that played at max 5 hours STO to that point.

let them get to VA by soloing missions...but all missions!
After that the team experiance starts, the real MMO starts. Most other MMO's do it that way, only limited solo focused content for lower levels, the big group content comes at the end.

and srsly, if you can't solo the content on nukara, i mean the advanced missions, you are still a learner or you have gimped your gear extremely.
I used to stay in that cave room and grind the room until i had all objectives of 2 missions multiple times per day...with all classes. Wasn't even that challenging.
Only the hard ones need a grp, but not even a full one.
Go pro or go home
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,659
# 116
08-16-2012, 03:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
that may be so, but it is wrong in my opinion...the time it takes people to reach VA is ridiculous short compared to any other MMO. Adding new and harder content to new players is insane! It is overwhelming and frustrating...especiall at the start of a game there shouldn't be any negative experiances. And beeing called a noob, while true, is not very motivating for somebody that played at max 5 hours STO to that point.

let them get to VA by soloing missions...but all missions!
After that the team experiance starts, the real MMO starts. Most other MMO's do it that way, only limited solo focused content for lower levels, the big group content comes at the end.

and srsly, if you can't solo the content on nukara, i mean the advanced missions, you are still a learner or you have gimped your gear extremely.
I used to stay in that cave room and grind the room until i had all objectives of 2 missions multiple times per day...with all classes. Wasn't even that challenging.
Only the hard ones need a grp, but not even a full one.
Note that I specified ALL THREE LEVELS,and I've solo'ed the outdoors portion often enough-all the green and all the yellow missions-but it gets REALLY DULL VERY fast.

The green missions especially-once you know what the AI is going to DO, it's easy to camp-and-kill your way through them, usually completing two or three objectives/missions simultaneously.

and you're still missing the point of intent.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,683
# 117
08-16-2012, 07:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Note that I specified ALL THREE LEVELS,and I've solo'ed the outdoors portion often enough-all the green and all the yellow missions-but it gets REALLY DULL VERY fast.

The green missions especially-once you know what the AI is going to DO, it's easy to camp-and-kill your way through them, usually completing two or three objectives/missions simultaneously.

and you're still missing the point of intent.
Actually... queue the one for shooting Tholians(i think you have to talk to the interior NPC), then queue all four outside easy and med missions, the purple mission will tick down as you shoot tholians during the easy and med missions the two easy mission can be done simultaneously, the same is true of the two med missions, doing all five is about as time consuming as doing one "real" mission. And yeah, I have managed to successfully solo it.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 424
# 118
08-16-2012, 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skhc View Post
I really don't understand how anyone can have an entitlement mentality about frankly any aspect of a team they get from a public queue, be it rank, language, use of chat, ability, build, whatever.
Exactly!! If you have that kind of Entitlement mentality then form a premade and then you don't have a problem. If you Que in a public one then you get what you get, and you should be penalized for abandoning them.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,294
# 119
08-21-2012, 01:48 AM
Played Starbase Incursion yesterday with my science toon. There was only one other sci player (VA) present and he was, frankly, not very good at all. A few minutes into the mission I turn a corner to find him dead. Revived him.

A few minutes later turned another corner just in time to see him get shot down by a turret. So killed the turret and revived him again.

Section 2 of the mission starts. He gets shot down VERY quickly and starts yelling for help. Revived him again - and just managed to do so when got shot down myself. And idiot simply runs off.

Anyway, we got to the final part of the mission and I managed to get flanked and killed. And idiot again ignored me.

So yeah, there are definitely some VA players who need to learn teamwork and should realise that the game isn't all about them.

STAR TREK BATTLES - HIGH DPS PLAYERS NEED NOT APPY
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 658
# 120
08-21-2012, 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
Ya' know? I'm one of those guys who regularly gets the objectives on Colony defense while the rest of the team is shooting stuff. I personally do everything I can to make sure that my team gets the most marks possible. Yeah it annoys me when the other guys ignore the objectives. But... Enh... I can live with it.... especially when we're stuck fighting Breen.... Ugh.... I hate them....
And with some quality time in those missions it's not impossible to solo the entire map of Optional objectives too.

Solo engineer or Tactical can also single-handedly win phase 2 of Starbase Incursion and gain access to the Captain by using certain creative tricks.
STF Flight Instructor since Early 2012. Newbies are the reason why STO lives and breathes today. Do not discriminate.

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