Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 31
08-08-2012, 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny111971 View Post
Why should the fleet marks events be any different?

The fleet events work as advertised and intended ... open to all a players regardless of level. The dev's were clear on this...
They sure were.

And then they clearly did not add a leaver penalty, so perhaps they understood that people will want to abandon terrible teams to their fate.


Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
# 32
08-08-2012, 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
Really?
Wow

i almost never see it (but then I rarely see Science VA's)
Thats because, to most, DPS is King... which I am not a particular fan of... but no need to go into it here... lots of other threads cover this subject.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 745
# 33
08-08-2012, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
All things being equal, VA equipment brings more potential.
Which does nothing whatsoever if they're a nerd-raging QQ'r.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 34
08-08-2012, 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beezle23 View Post
Which does nothing whatsoever if they're a nerd-raging QQ'r.
I think it's extremely safe to say that you missed the entire point of the post that you decided to take an excerpt from.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,734
# 35
08-09-2012, 12:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Your post is mostly a bunch of anecdotes.

A bad player in a VA ship or with VA kit and gear still has more abilities than a bad player who has a T1 ship or a T1 kit.


You do not, in arguments of this kind, get to automatically assume that all VAs are braindead sub-human mutants and yet all L7 PUGs are miraculously some jedi-master super ninja at the keyboard.

No, you reduce all things to being equal.

All things being equal, VA equipment brings more potential (healing, damage, etc) than low level equipment, this is unarguable.
Abilities and Potential abilities only matter if they are USED. Goes back to the old saw about the valedictorian driving the taxi while the guy at the bottom of the class is running a multinational-Potentially, a VA has more to offer a team than a Lt. but only if he/she is actually willing to USE that potential-otherwise known as the guy who contributes is useful, the guy who doesn't , is useless, no matter HOW much potential ability he's sitting on. a Pretty Stat-stack is of zero value if it's hiding in the turbolift or 'not spawning' through phase 2 of Incursion (and most of 3) only to show up AFTER the enemy Captain's already left the building and most of the shooting is over and done with.

and sure as hell, he's not worth anything if he's bailed out already. The Lt. who's "in use'' is FAR more valuable to the team than a VA who's sulking in his tent like Achilles.

Note that NOT all Vice Admirals act like that, but some do, and frankly, their defense of such behaviour disgusts me.

Last edited by patrickngo; 08-09-2012 at 12:46 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 190
# 36
08-09-2012, 03:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Abilities and Potential abilities only matter if they are USED. Goes back to the old saw about the valedictorian driving the taxi while the guy at the bottom of the class is running a multinational-Potentially, a VA has more to offer a team than a Lt. but only if he/she is actually willing to USE that potential-otherwise known as the guy who contributes is useful, the guy who doesn't , is useless, no matter HOW much potential ability he's sitting on. a Pretty Stat-stack is of zero value if it's hiding in the turbolift or 'not spawning' through phase 2 of Incursion (and most of 3) only to show up AFTER the enemy Captain's already left the building and most of the shooting is over and done with.

and sure as hell, he's not worth anything if he's bailed out already. The Lt. who's "in use'' is FAR more valuable to the team than a VA who's sulking in his tent like Achilles.

Note that NOT all Vice Admirals act like that, but some do, and frankly, their defense of such behaviour disgusts me.
This ^

Sollvax's OP, I think, has some merit.
My wingman and I have seen a slew of leavers recently. I'd guess, at least one in three matches, surprisingly enough. (we both only do fleet mark stuff on VA/LG's, for the record).
A penalty would be nice. Only because, as has been stated, the leaver did LESS for the team than a "lowbie".
And kudos to marc8219. 40+ in a pug is impressive. Best one I've had was somewhere around 36-37.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
and when did you last see a VA HEAL someone ?
I do. Regularly. My science captains are all medics on ground.
My Eng has shield recharge (and equip diag). And I use them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
Blockade should not be attempted below captain (unless you fly a Flight deck cruiser armed with EXTREME combat pets)
I've never understood attack pets in blockade.
Why not use shield repair drones and make life easier?
Or, if in a carrier, you won't even have to fire a shot while your freighter warps out with full hull and shields. (using TSS and HE)
I think a lot of people still don't realize that it's about finesse, not strength.
Just easier

Also, ran Blockade with a lvl 30-something in a Peregrine.
Contributed nothing (besides a high death count).
People that troll like that should get a penalty too, regardless of level
-------------------------
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"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 37
08-09-2012, 03:25 AM
the attacking ships go after t drones like bees after sugar
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 24
# 38
08-09-2012, 08:10 AM
I admit a very few times I have left an incursion zone, but only for 1 reason, I'm the only one in the first section bothering to actually find and kill saboteurs while EVERYONE else is going around shooting guards and turrets - Why should I do all the work while 4 others can't be bothered to read whats on their journal window to the right of the screen? In those occasions I don't care what happens to those 4 people, I'm not there to carry them in the first section of the zone. A lock out only does one thing and that's excludes 1 man fleets from having a chance at completing their daily grind to get their starbases leveled.

I used to ask politely at the beginning of the zone before section 1 starts if people could focus on killing the saboteurs, right up until someone decided that my nice use of please and thank you was a direct insult to them and that i should stfu - guess which team member died the most and shot the most turrets..
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
# 39
08-09-2012, 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Abilities and Potential abilities only matter if they are USED. Goes back to the old saw about the valedictorian driving the taxi while the guy at the bottom of the class is running a multinational-Potentially, a VA has more to offer a team than a Lt. but only if he/she is actually willing to USE that potential-otherwise known as the guy who contributes is useful, the guy who doesn't , is useless, no matter HOW much potential ability he's sitting on. a Pretty Stat-stack is of zero value if it's hiding in the turbolift or 'not spawning' through phase 2 of Incursion (and most of 3) only to show up AFTER the enemy Captain's already left the building and most of the shooting is over and done with.

and sure as hell, he's not worth anything if he's bailed out already. The Lt. who's "in use'' is FAR more valuable to the team than a VA who's sulking in his tent like Achilles.

Note that NOT all Vice Admirals act like that, but some do, and frankly, their defense of such behaviour disgusts me.
^ This

Interesting event last night... after leaving this thread to attend a fleet marks events with some fleet members, we got to talking about this very thing (well more specifically Leavers in general).

One of the the fleeties, was advocating for leaving without penalty for the exact same "justifications" given here. Obviously, he and I were not seeing eye to eye on the subject.

None the less, I took a deep breath and we headed in to a Blockade... we had 4 fleet members, so I queued us as a team (3 VA's and a RA 43)... we get in... and the pick-up player left within before the timer wound down to actually start the mission (I assume, he info'd each of us there, to check our rank/ship), decided we weren't worth his time... and warped out.

My believe in leaving friend, went on a tyrade about being left. I remained quite, and we completed the mission... didn't do half bad, but could have done better with a 5th ship. We exit the mission, and he continues to express his disbelief that the person left. My comment on the subject was "sucks to be left doesn't it"... he changed his tune pretty quickly... He then realized, that the 4 of us were disadvantaged by 1 single leaver. And as the quoted poster points out... that RALH did us a lot more good than the person who left... because he, at least, was there.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 745
# 40
08-09-2012, 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
I think it's extremely safe to say that you missed the entire point of the post that you decided to take an excerpt from.
The snippet I pulled is pertinent to the conversation. VA's have "more to offer" IF THEY STAY. And following up with that, a VA having "more to offer" hurts that much more when they decide to randomly leave.

I'll take a newbie over someone that pulls a Cartman: "Screw you guys, I'm going home." At least the newbie will be there shooting at things in between respawns, rather than spontaneously leaving the team a valuable man short.

------

Anyhow, the solution would be for Cryptic to fine-tune the fleet missions to be accomplished by three people (with the exception of Defense, I'll leave ranting about that to another thread). Given that for whatever lack of logic, they've decided not to level-gate the events.

This would allow for the standard PUG to complete them, given that each Event seems to have one well-meaning, but ill-prepared newbie who spends most of the time respawning and one person who rage-quits when they see aforementioned newbie on the team.
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Last edited by beezle23; 08-09-2012 at 10:08 AM.
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