Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,975
# 1 Cruisers need a DPS boost
08-06-2012, 05:14 PM
Cruisers seem a bit under dps'd.
I'm in a Sci-Oddy, 6 BAs + 2 Q-torps (or 1 DBB instead of a fore BA sometimes)
Two +26% Phaser Tac Consoles.
Level 6 on all energy weapon skills.
Borg Assimilated Console.
Weapon energy at 118.

So for example, running the Fleet Alert event, players in escorts are popping the enemy frigates in one pass taking all of 3 seconds to kill one. My 'flagship' is taking like 20-30 seconds to kill one. I know I'm not min-maxed but... is it really supposed to take me 10 times as long to kill a piddly little frigate?

One Fleet Alert there was 3 Oddys and while no one was dying, we couldn't beat the timer. These events need to be completable no matter what ship combinations show up in the Pug.

------------------------
Somewhat related note...

I have never been in a successful pug when there's 1-2 Lt. or Lt.Commander ships in the group. They may get boosted to VA in some respects for the fight, but they are STILL not up to it. They lack guns and powers and skill tree advancement. Letting them group with VAs is a bad thing as it stands now. Enemies still too strong for the group being handicapped with a Lt or Lt.Coms! I see a tiny Constitution refit warp in and I just want to leave.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have stuff to rant about on the forums!

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 227
# 2
08-06-2012, 05:33 PM
What types of weapons were you all running?

I've found the Oddy to be more of a beam boat tank than a good DPS cruiser. The TAC Oddy isn't bad because you get 3 consoles and the escort pet for some extra damage. I've found for me it works best with Disruptors with Critical chance modifiers because you get the dmg resistance de-buff and then your beams can do some pretty solid DPS on the hull. Once the de-buff kicks in and I'm getting good crits, I can hit for 2k plus dmg on hull per beam hit.

For DPS on a cruiser try the Advanced Heavy Retro-Fit, I normally run the Excelsior on STFs and it's quickly becoming my favorite cruiser. The biggest issue with the Oddy is that it turns like a barge, almost as bad as the Gal-X, so running torpedoes is almost useless. The Heavy Re-fit turns a lot faster and you can keep your nose on target to take advantage of Dual Beam Banks and Torps up front.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,522
# 3
08-06-2012, 05:48 PM
how to dps in a cruiser-

8 beam arrays to start with, any other combination with hamstrings your ability to bring the majority of your weapons to bare. for a DBB or torp to fire on an enemy, none of your aft beams can even be used on your target, never run a compromising setup like that.

next is weapon energy. cruisers are the best at flexing the energy muscle, and you should try to spec so you have as close to 125 as possible with skills, and then use EPtW1 on top of it. the unseen energy pool over 125 will prevent your first couple of beams from even lowering your weapons energy below 125, the rest of your beam will then only lower your weapons energy to the 90s or so, instead of the 60s if your energy only topped out at 125. your energy level up to 125 actually acts as a damage multiplier, the higher your energy up to 125, the more damaging shots will be. shots fired at lower energy levels hardly do any damage at all. you want as many shots as possible fireing at an over 100 energy damage modifier.

to deal weapons damage, it helps to be a tactical captain. the other 2 types are pretty hopeless at dealing significant damage no mater how good your gear and everything else is. focus your build to deal maximum energy damage. chose cruisers with 3 tac consoles and stick the best energy damage consoles you can there. the sci odyssey is only tactically potent when your shooting at a target for more then a minute like in a pvp fight, a tac odyssey would be better at dealing with npcs. if you use things like tetryon or polaron weapons, and tetryon glider, spec into flow capacitors and run flow cap consoles. max out your targeting skill too so your accuracy is as good as it can be.

you really cant deal threatening damage in a cruiser unless your revolve your entire build around it, and minmax as hard as you can.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 19
# 4
08-06-2012, 05:54 PM
Well, first off, if you want DPS in a cruiser, don't use an Odyessy and don't use beams. Use a cannoncelsior.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 5
08-06-2012, 06:12 PM
To be honest, cruisers aren't really meant to match escorts in raw DPS. Traditionally, the escorts have been squishier (i.e. glass cannons) but had lots of firepower and speed, while cruisers were meant for tanking and healing teammates, and sci ships could do a little of everything when built right (tanking, DPSing with sci skills, debuffing to improve everyone's damage, and healing others).

DPS is possible, but you'll probably never match a well-built escort unless you run a 'tac cruiser' that can load cannons (think the Feddies have 1-2 ships for that). KDF has a couple of these, and they can definitely kick ass when they've got the build for it.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 750
# 6
08-06-2012, 06:38 PM
Cruisers don't do top damage, but they certainly do enough. If you want a demonstration of how effective a cruiser is in combat, take your cruiser against an equally skilled escort pilot in a pvp duel.

(hint: If your cruiser dies in pvp against an escort, you should quit the game because you don't know how to play it properly.)
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 321
# 7
08-06-2012, 06:39 PM
doesn't take much to dip into that 90 degree arc for a torp out of a broadside, or go back into a broadside after the torp fires. pulling 80 running all BA's means when you batteries and eptw are on cooldown you're throwing spitballs...might as well not even shoot until power hits 125, one salvo then wait again.

6xBA is more practical, allows you to maintain dps without significant drops regardless of whether additional power buffs are available. allows you to use your tac abilities anytime...they still benefit more when you have a power buff running but even without far more effective than 8 BA's.

not sure when the last time some of you suggesting 8ba's ran a beam boat....but power consumption skyrocketed several patches back (before s6) forced me to rework my beam cruiser with a serious eye towards power drain vs dps and number of beam arrays. 8 slams power levels down, even worse if using FAW or BO. spitwads.

cruisers require more finesse in maneuvering to get the most out of them than charge in cannons blazing escorts. needless to say skills, boff abilities need more tuning as well. the only cruiser boost that's really needed is in the power department...kind of ridiculous that a ship so much larger than an escort shares the same power characteristics with regards to drain and recharge.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 369
# 8
08-06-2012, 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulleatherjacket View Post
Cruisers don't do top damage, but they certainly do enough. If you want a demonstration of how effective a cruiser is in combat, take your cruiser against an equally skilled escort pilot in a pvp duel.

(hint: If your cruiser dies in pvp against an escort, you should quit the game because you don't know how to play it properly.)
So do Bugs count? Yeah don't be so harsh.

I'm a Tac in a Cruiser (Dreadnought) and I do more than enough Damage to kill an escort while tanking all of their damage. So I see where he is coming from, but there was a time where I would get owned from escorts, now I am a threat
The Average PvP player

1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,173
# 9
08-06-2012, 08:27 PM
The biggest problem wit hthe DPS that Cruisers/ Sci ships put out is that it is ALWAYS going to be at a disadvantage during time-gated missions (Read: Borg STFs)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,975
# 10
08-06-2012, 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
To be honest, cruisers aren't really meant to match escorts in raw DPS.
Not trying to match an escort, just want to not take 1hr to kill a frigate

for the guy who asked...I have VR Mk XI weapons.

I know not having torpedos would free up alot of skill points and tactical options. But it just doesn't feel right to not have a torp fore and aft. Plus the whole powering 8 beams seems like a large power drain.

Since I'm not really doing STFs at the moment, maybe I'll switch to my Tac Oddy, since the Sensor Analysis does not have time to fully charge when not attacking Cubes, Gates and what-not.

When the C-store Oddys came out I pvp'd against a guy who wanted to see how durable they were. I was parked, he parked at about 5km and blasted away; his Defiant couldn't really kill me till my powers were all on cool-down and he got a few good crits.

But durability does not win the new events. I see 5 cruisers in an event I'm gonna guess we're not going to beat the timer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by badname834854 View Post
The biggest problem wit hthe DPS that Cruisers/ Sci ships put out is that it is ALWAYS going to be at a disadvantage during time-gated missions (Read: Borg STFs)
Maybe Cryptic should add an extra few minutes to events for every cruiser or sci ship that is in the group.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have stuff to rant about on the forums!


Last edited by dracounguis; 08-06-2012 at 09:04 PM.
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