Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
# 11
10-25-2012, 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
So lately in KASE a lot, people have been calling for the 5km 'rule' when dealing with Donatra, saying she won't cloak if everyone stays outside of 5km. I disagree with that assessment, but I also figure debating tactics in the middle of a match would be bad timing and, with truncated text, come off as needlessly argumentative rather than trying to genuinely discuss it. So I bring it up here instead, to ask other players in a more suitable environment for such discussion. I think its silly, but if I'm mathematically wrong, lemme know why.

1 Isn't it yet another STF urban legend, like successful optionals supposedly boosting chances for tech drops and the like? She cloaks whenever she feels like cloaking, and thats just how it goes. Why bend over backwards for something that doesn't actually affect anything?

2 Pets. Between the proliferation of fighter pets and photonic fleet pets, even if you hang back, won't something else break the 5km boundary? Or do they not count? Or are pets supposed to be held back now (sucks if you're a carrier)?

3 We do more damage inside of 5km. This is true for everyone, but for me especially (being selfish here), the 2 ships I'm running lately are built around PSW3, so I need to get in close or lose my biggest hit. Even if this does ultimately trigger the cloak, isn't the extra damage worth it?

4 She's at her most vulnerable right after decloak. Evasive out of the cone of the thalaron pulse, pick your choice of shield facings, pound her with your biggest attacks. Its the best time to hit her, so why not enourage her to do it more often?

5 Recharge times. The cloaking time gives her a chance to heal a bit and recover her BOFF powers. However it also gives us that same breather. She gets 4 powers, we get 20+ times 5 players, plus much better healing. Plus one player with a subnuc can take most of her recovery away. Seems like the players come out on top of that math to me.

So I'm not trying to argue per se, but these are my thoughts on the subject. Am I overlooking something and need to jump on the bandwagon, or is this new rule a silly fad that needs to go away?
Obviously these people know stf's better so you should listen when they tell you what to do. Only those of us that know how to run stf's bark orders at the begining of a pug because we know 90% of you wont listen or try to fly off and cause crud to happen. When someone speaks, listen, it usually means they are a better player and know what their doing. Especially if you see elite badges on them.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 422
# 12
10-25-2012, 08:57 AM
i have faced off with donatra many times. the 5km rule is a good one. however, as some have mentioned an escort does the most damage up close.

donatra is typically pretty easy to beat either way. i just go along with the others. if they want to follow the 5km rule, so will i and if they don't, it is not a big deal.

typically on KASE i run with an oddy with cannons and beams primarily so i can keep my distance from donatra and do damage.

i will do KASE with an escort that just destroys probes with ease, but i don't do as well against donatra under the 5km rule.
http://startrek.44thfleet.com/
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 437
# 13
10-25-2012, 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
It works fine. You make up the damage difference by not flying around twiddling your thumbs while she's cloaked.
I actually thought the way you did before, but I was wrong.

I routinely tank her on my Tac in my Fl. Tor'Kaht at 6-7km and have little trouble holding aggro, and its a cannon/torp boat.
Very true!

Works great, I actually stay 6-10km away with my escort swinging in firing. I can generally keep the aggro on me the whole time as long as i attack. Takes a decent team 3-7 mins max to kill her
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 768
# 14
10-25-2012, 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
So lately in KASE a lot, people have been calling for the 5km 'rule' when dealing with Donatra, saying she won't cloak if everyone stays outside of 5km. I disagree with that assessment, but I also figure debating tactics in the middle of a match would be bad timing and, with truncated text, come off as needlessly argumentative rather than trying to genuinely discuss it. So I bring it up here instead, to ask other players in a more suitable environment for such discussion. I think its silly, but if I'm mathematically wrong, lemme know why.
Here goes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
1 Isn't it yet another STF urban legend, like successful optionals supposedly boosting chances for tech drops and the like? She cloaks whenever she feels like cloaking, and thats just how it goes. Why bend over backwards for something that doesn't actually affect anything?
Nope. I've seen it definitely work, and I've seen cases where there have been "5.1 range" violations by a non-aggroed player and the cloak does not go off. Therefore, it does seem that the cloak-check is triggered by the "active target" (aka one with most aggro) being inside/outside that 5.1 km "barrier"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
2 Pets. Between the proliferation of fighter pets and photonic fleet pets, even if you hang back, won't something else break the 5km boundary? Or do they not count? Or are pets supposed to be held back now (sucks if you're a carrier)?
This lends support to the "only the aggroed target triggers the cloak" theory, as pets rarely/never get Donatra's direct attention...

Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
3 We do more damage inside of 5km. This is true for everyone, but for me especially (being selfish here), the 2 ships I'm running lately are built around PSW3, so I need to get in close or lose my biggest hit. Even if this does ultimately trigger the cloak, isn't the extra damage worth it?
IIRC, beams don't drop off "as badly as cannons" at the range brackets. Which then beggars the question - is the PSW & better range bracket damage > lesser sustained DPS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
4 She's at her most vulnerable right after decloak. Evasive out of the cone of the thalaron pulse, pick your choice of shield facings, pound her with your biggest attacks. Its the best time to hit her, so why not enourage her to do it more often?
Because she heals most shield damage during the decloak, and her shields are snapped back into place by the time the evasive's done. Also, don't quote me on this, but Donatra doesn't decloak until her aggroed target is outside the 5.1 bubble for X period of time, so barring an effective tank, the best DPSser is the one that's playing "evasives out of thalaron cone"

Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
5 Recharge times. The cloaking time gives her a chance to heal a bit and recover her BOFF powers. However it also gives us that same breather. She gets 4 powers, we get 20+ times 5 players, plus much better healing. Plus one player with a subnuc can take most of her recovery away. Seems like the players come out on top of that math to me.

So I'm not trying to argue per se, but these are my thoughts on the subject. Am I overlooking something and need to jump on the bandwagon, or is this new rule a silly fad that needs to go away?
It ultimately depends. Without her cloak/heals and the thalaron pulses I've only seen fired as part of a decloak, Donatra's not much worse than the assimilated carrier at the end of CSE. Also, even though the player's aren't in "their" optimal range brackets, Donatra's not quite as sturdy as the Assim. Carrier. To cite SFB/SFC - sometimes it's beneficial to take the shots from outside the "optimal" range bracket and be assured damage than it is to gamble on the "perfect" shot and wind up scoring no damage (Donatra cloaks and shield-heals)...
50: S'Leth/Eurthyr/S. Dareau/Ardrian/Krudge/Annlova Not: Jadja
Still at it. CBS "restrictions" fell by wayside with freebie Breen. Time to re-examine ENT and ToS at tier 5, repurpose the Connie into Sci and rebuild an Akira escort into the "NX". 6 "eras", spread evenly over all the classes...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 349
# 15
10-25-2012, 09:03 AM
This is really easy to test. Get a group of five players you trust to run KASE numerous times. My fleet runs it together and we have seen numerous times where she does not cloak the entire match. Although I think it is 6km is the magic number. Like I said while running with people I trust I have seen her not cloak at all.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 38
# 16
10-25-2012, 09:10 AM
We do only the 5km tactic against her with my fleet mates. Once we finished her under a minute.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10
# 17
10-25-2012, 10:38 AM
2 good escort can easily destroy Donatra in closed range at 2km to get full dps, first time to get her down to 50% of hp and second time when she uncloak again she s dead.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 69
# 18
10-25-2012, 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan512 View Post
Obviously these people know stf's better so you should listen when they tell you what to do. Only those of us that know how to run stf's bark orders at the begining of a pug because we know 90% of you wont listen or try to fly off and cause crud to happen. When someone speaks, listen, it usually means they are a better player and know what their doing. Especially if you see elite badges on them.
That's total bull, typically the empty can rattles the most. The OP did exactly what he should have done, come to the forums and get the full story.

Never assume that a person, even one with accolades or shiny badges, actually know what they're doing. I've seen plenty of skittle boats blarg on and on about how everyone's a bunch of noobs and then screw up the entire run by doing something stupid.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2
# 19
10-25-2012, 11:44 AM
I have noticed that it only appears to cloak when the ship the Donatra is targeting is with in 6km. I've been the target and as long as I was at 6km+ the others can be closer, but if she switches then she'll cloak. You have to tease her and take your lumps.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 41
# 20
10-25-2012, 12:35 PM
My fleet use to do the 5 km rule and it made for long drawn out fights with her and it didn't seem to get her from cloaking. We tend to think it has to do with big burst damge. Not saying we are right and anyone else is wrong, but we take her out allot quicker since we threw out the 5 km rule and quit using it. This could be because most of our memebrs that run Stf's together are in Escorts though. With that said if I'm pugging I follow the 5 km rule if someone says it just because i don't want the drama and arguments. I'm pretty sure the most she has ever cloaked on us since we quit doing the 5 km rule is like 4 times and usually kill her with in 2-5 mins. Where as when we use to follow the 5 km rule she cloak atleast 10 times and it would take around 10 mins to beat her. But it's like other parts of KASE that are suppose to be set it stone that aren't. For example you need two people to guard probes, that's total BS we only use 1 person ( a escort ) Taking both gates down at the same time is another. We have completed it with optional everytime by taking out one gate out before the other with out any problem.

Anyway here's our tatic for KASE one of use will guard the probes on both sides with an escort. While the other 4 split up into two teams of two. One set of two will go to one gate and work on the generators and transformers , cubes. The other set of two will go to the other gate and do the same thing there. Both teams will start on the two transformers furtherest away from the middle vortex (gate) that the probes are trying to get to. After those transformers are down they move to the two closest to the vortex and take it out. They will then move to their respective gate and position themselves so they can first on the gate and probes at the same time. The person who was on probe duty will now help one of the two teams with their gate. Until it it down to 20% or so then he will leve that gate and and start heading to the other side and help with that gate. Both sides will take out their gate as quick as they can. Who ever kills the gate first will then go to the other side and finsih off that gate and any speres and probes are left. Then everyone will go after Donatra and we take her out as fast as we can.
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