Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 148
A Jem'hadar ship could hypothetically slot two emergency power to shields, auxiliary to structural integrity field, hazard emitter, and reverse shield polarity. The mvam can hypothetically slot two transfer shield strengths, two emergency power to shields, and a hazard emitter. The new fleet patrol escort can hypothetically slot the same as a jem'hadar ship minus the reverse shield polarity but add another engineering console slot whose layout could hypothetically be 2 rcs consoles for turn and two neutroniums for added survivability.

What are you thinking? What is your problem? The defiant can hypothetically slot two emergency power to shields, one transfer shield strength and one hazard emitter. I don't know how you THINK pvp'ers or players in general are playing this game but you obviously aren't paying enough attention. The defiant should have battle cloak. It had it in the shows it should have it in the game. And the healing of the other escorts seriously makes this ship not as viable as other selections for competetive pvp because of its lack of extra healing.

The argument seems to be that the Defiant is the equivalent of a raptor for the KDF. That may be true stat wise but it is NOT TRUE ship wise. The defiant is a cloaking class ship. Cloaking classes in general in mmo's are played a certain way. In general they DON'T have the heals of other classes but they make up for it by being a "cloak and dagger" class. They slip into and out of combat and they are able to for the most part at will. There are some disadvantages to this playstyle as well as timing the ability to use cloak as effective and efficiently as possible but it is how the class is played.

The Basic battle cloak the KDF gets on a bop has a cooldown of 15 seconds. So why dont we change the cloaking console of the defiant to one that can be used in combat BUT increase its cooldown to 1min.30 seconds. This means that a Bop will be able to cloak 5 times as often as a defiant. This would put the federations only cloaking ship on par with the cloaking ships of the KDF and IF Cryptic ever gets around to it the cloaking classes of the Romulan Empire. And it would also not make the defiant in comparison to the lesser hull and shields of the Bop overpowered.

-Captain Tripwire-

Let no other player discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Though you may walk alone through looming shadows of doubt cast upon you by your enemies. Forge your heart with iron casting its shape out of only your pure will to push forward. You will not be denied eventually.

Last edited by tripwire690; 08-10-2012 at 05:41 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 2
08-10-2012, 05:57 AM
This game is not meant for pvp so they don't and wont try to balance the ships.IT is what it is .
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,642
# 3
08-10-2012, 06:55 AM
The Defiant should 100% have a Battle cloak to keep in line with canon - there are at least 6 episodes where the defiant cloaks in battle/under fire - which is the definition of a battle cloak

Not having the same cloak as the show is a MAJOR oversight and needs to be fixed

What is the Justification for not keeping the cloak in line with the battle cloak seen on the show?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,251
# 4
08-10-2012, 06:57 AM
No battlecloak for the Federation, there really should be no cloak period for the Federation but many complained and got it, same with the carriers too. I don't use the cloak console on my Defiant, it's a waste better used for something else like a neutronium or sif generator.

Just because something was in the show doesn't mean it has to be in the game. If the Dev's just went by the Show, there would be no Orions, Letheans, Saurians, Ferengi, Pakleds etc on the Federation/KDF factions.

"Canon is a poor excuse for lack of imagination."

And the matter of fact the BOP that has the Battlecloak is so nerfed to make up for it, that if the Defiant did get one it's stats would have to be reduced by a large number to accommodate this and make it somewhat balanced. I'm sure you don't want this. Oh and only the USS Defiant had the cloak not any other Defiant, even the second Defiant in late season 7 didn't have one. It was a one time use so the Federation players whining about the Defiant should have one, are just blowing things out of proportion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
Cryptic is sloppy. Breaking News at 11. This is what happens when there is no outline or plan and you just make up **** as you go along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shredder75 View Post
We can tell our great grandchildren, "In my day, our cloaks were so sensitive that even dialogue broke them and we couldn't change our clothes!"
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 5
08-10-2012, 06:59 AM
Not to go off topic (honestly!) but on the same line of thinking, it's always bothered me how you have to wait so long for MVAM to come off cooldown. It's not like the pets are any stronger than your bog standard barfing catbox, so why do carriers get to spam pets at their leisure?

As far as the Defiant getting a battle cloak is concerned, honestly I think you'll find battle cloak is overrated. It's okay if you're extremely careful but more often than not it'll just get you killed against smart opponents.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,324
# 6
08-10-2012, 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwire690 View Post
The argument seems to be that the Defiant is the equivalent of a raptor for the KDF. That may be true stat wise but it is NOT TRUE ship wise. The defiant is a cloaking class ship. Cloaking classes in general in mmo's are played a certain way. In general they DON'T have the heals of other classes but they make up for it by being a "cloak and dagger" class. They slip into and out of combat and they are able to for the most part at will. There are some disadvantages to this playstyle as well as timing the ability to use cloak as effective and efficiently as possible but it is how the class is played.

The Basic battle cloak the KDF gets on a bop has a cooldown of 15 seconds. So why dont we change the cloaking console of the defiant to one that can be used in combat BUT increase its cooldown to 1min.30 seconds. This means that a Bop will be able to cloak 5 times as often as a defiant. This would put the federations only cloaking ship on par with the cloaking ships of the KDF and IF Cryptic ever gets around to it the cloaking classes of the Romulan Empire. And it would also not make the defiant in comparison to the lesser hull and shields of the Bop overpowered.

-Captain Tripwire-
Alright, every cloaking device in the TV shows and movie where battle cloaks, none of this nonsense of can't use it because less that 30 seconds ago a weapon was fired.

In the Game only the BoP get's Battle cloak, it's a very unique ship compared to everything else. Since the Raptor can't Battle cloak the Defiant having a cloaking device and the same BOFF layout is the Federation equivilent.

If the Defiant gets Battle Cloak all Cloaking Devices should become battle cloaks. This won't happen and it's because of Game balance.

A BoP has a 20s cooldown on it's cloak like all other Klingon cloaking devices, it can just use it's while in combat.

The Dreadnought can also cloak.

And finally, don't ever bring canon into an argument about Federation cloaking devices, because the Federation having cloaking devices is breaking canon.

The Defiant had an amendment in the Treaty of Algernon to allow it (and it alone) to have a cloaking device which was originally supervised by the Romulans. Despite the Damage done to the Romulan Star Empire. The current President of the Federation resigned the Treaty of Algernon, with both the Romulans and Klingons stating that the Federations dedication to peace would not see them research, implement or utilise cloaking technology in any form.

By that ingame logic, no Federation ship should have a cloaking device in any capacity. Be grateful with what you have, in the attempt to grasp more what you have may slip through your fingers.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 7
08-10-2012, 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majesticmsfc View Post
Just because something was in the show doesn't mean it has to be in the game. If the Dev's just went by the Show, there would be no Orions, Letheans, Saurians, Ferengi, Pakleds etc on the Federation/KDF factions.

"Canon is a poor excuse for lack of imagination."
I say they should add a r2d2
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 8
08-10-2012, 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
Not to go off topic (honestly!) but on the same line of thinking, it's always bothered me how you have to wait so long for MVAM to come off cooldown. It's not like the pets are any stronger than your bog standard barfing catbox, so why do carriers get to spam pets at their leisure?

As far as the Defiant getting a battle cloak is concerned, honestly I think you'll find battle cloak is overrated. It's okay if you're extremely careful but more often than not it'll just get you killed against smart opponents.
I don't know exactly, but thats because it is considered a console-power and not "pets" per say?

Also, the MVAM isn't a carrier.

If you reduced the timer on that, you would beed to reduce the timer all other c-store ships abilities.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,012
# 9
08-10-2012, 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by levi3 View Post
The Defiant should 100% have a Battle cloak to keep in line with canon - there are at least 6 episodes where the defiant cloaks in battle/under fire - which is the definition of a battle cloak

Not having the same cloak as the show is a MAJOR oversight and needs to be fixed

What is the Justification for not keeping the cloak in line with the battle cloak seen on the show?
And I can show you numerous episodes where K't'ingas battlecloaked, yet Klingon battlecruisers don't have battlecloaks in this game.
Why? Because this is a game where they gave this unique ability to the BoP.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 10
08-10-2012, 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwire690 View Post
... This would put the federations only cloaking ship on par with the cloaking ships of the KDF ...
-Captain Tripwire-
I wonder. What are your thoughts, in regards to putting the Klingon escorts on par with the federation ones?

Please don't tell me that you believe the SB Defiant is outmatched by BOPs? If you do, I can only suggest you fly it against a Defiant, and see how terribly wrong you are. (If you comparing it to the Heghta, then I don't even know what to say.)

Defiant

Hull - 33,000
Weapons 4 (F), 3 (A)

CMDR TAC
LT. CMDR TAC
ENS TAC
LT. SCI
LT. ENG

5x TAC consoles
3x ENG consoles
2x SCI consoles

Turn Rate 17

+15 Weapons power
STD Cloak

Ning'tao Bird-of-Prey

Hull - 16,500 (I remind you that a shuttle has 6,000!!!)
Weapons 4 (F), 2 (A)

CMDR UNI
LT. CMDR UNI
LT. CMDR UNI
LT. UNI

(There is nothing special about the BOFF setup. Its fairly obvious that one of them HAS to be an engineer. In fact I would say its shocking. Not only are you gimping into forcing LT.CMDR healing if you want to stay alive, but your LT.Uni is consumed in the process. IMO, if a player tries to even run one of the LT.CMDR slots as a TAC, they are going to be fighting a pointless battle trying to stay alive.)


3x TAC consoles
3x ENG consoles
3x SCI consoles

(According to STOwiki, this piece of garbage has -1 console compared to the Defiant! PS. Even if thats not the case, it's does make the slightest bit of difference. Personally I don't know of a single seasoned PvPer thats going to waste their time on this.)

Turn Rate 22

+15 Weapons power
B Cloak Whoop-di-$%^& Woop.

Last edited by drkfrontiers; 08-10-2012 at 09:18 AM.
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