Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 399
# 171
08-22-2012, 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
I don't think there's a fair way to "filter out" players from doing Elites.

Excluding due to injury might help, but would that get enough "bang for the buck" for Cryptic to implement that?

Thanks for the feedback.
that would be great, might want to add a doctors office on DS9 because alot of people
seem to not know there's a healer on ds9.


but i have a better solution..

Have the developers play STO with all of us and the stf and pug it
with everyone and let them see first hand what needs to be changed.

force them to pug it for 50 matches of ground and 50 matches of space and see what they say.

but thats just my opinion.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 444
# 172
08-22-2012, 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
I don't think there's a fair way to "filter out" players from doing Elites.

Excluding due to injury might help, but would that get enough "bang for the buck" for Cryptic to implement that?

Thanks for the feedback.
you misinterpreted that...i don't care, 99% of the stf's i'm in i pug. the complainers care. they want a perfect elite whenever they hop into a queue. it seems you're serious and trying to get a handle on things...but as someone else said there's no fixing stupid, and that actually applies to the people who pug then whine.

my analogies i thought would be easily understood...no one forces these idiots to pug. there are channels, there are fleets, there is doing an LFG in ds9. no ones forcing them to do a damn thing and they have options to take another route. not sure why that is difficult for them to understand. feelings of entitlement coupled with low IQ may be the reason.

not flaming but ffs, if you get burned and there's alternatives to getting burned and yet you continue... o.O and then whine about getting burned? you can't fix that kind of stupid.

elites are meant to be handled by a team of people at the very least who know what they're doing, ideally people you know who know what they're doing. hopping into one with 4 strangers and expecting perfection is just effing stupid. as i said, i pug, i don't expect perfection, drunken monkey **** is what i expect.

nice surprise when that doesn't happen but it was my choice and not going to cry about it.

the system is fine the way it is. you and the devs aren't responsible for people who don't have enough common sense to NOT do something that bothers them. and all in all, they're a very small...albeit vocal minority compared to the total population of the game. sometimes wonder if they're not all drama queens that jump into pugs just so they can whine about it later >.>


This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~syberghost

Last edited by syberghost; 08-22-2012 at 01:59 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
# 173
08-26-2012, 01:45 AM
Here is another huge problem with the leaver penalty. For some reason Cryptic sees fit to dump people into the middle of missions like "Infected (Space) Elite" where some inexperienced players have popped all the gens on both sides and have like 20 spheres flying around the map like roving packs of wolves. Both the cubes are still intact firing high yield plasma torps all over the place. Half the original team (experienced players) have left out of disgust; leaving behind those who screwed up and have no clue why the mission is suddenly "so hard". And lastly the optional objective is already blown, which I for one would like a fair shot at achieving. I actually warped into this very situation tonight and promptly took a penalty for warping out. I wasn't going to spend the next 40+ minutes trying to clean up a mess like that practically alone because the inexperienced players had a long row of ship injuries listed and were essentially useless; taking more and more time to respawn each time they die. Why does Cryptic think its fair that someone be dumped into the middle of a debacle like that to clean up another team's mess?

If people decide to leave the mission they started, that's on them, if there were people there who just refused to read the chat which is usually full of people begging them not to pop the gens early then that's on them and ultimately their choice to decide to stay and attempt to clean up the mess they made. When I join a queue for a mission I'd like the opportunity to start that mission from the very beginning where if I or my teammates screw it up we bare the consequences not some poor sap who's been warped in expecting that they too are getting a fresh and fair start.

So I propose that the leaver penalty be waived for people who are warped into a mission that has already been started. The definition of "started" meaning the first shot has been fired. Once that first shot has been fired then anyone who warps in as a replacement afterwards should have the option to leave without consequence as they've possibly already missed out on a fair shot at loot drops, optional objectives, and expertise points.

This will also help clean up the pug groups by process of weeding unprepared players out. After half the team leaves them enough times and they are left alone with the mess they've made then they will stop showing up until they are really ready for the tougher game play. But as long as new people are perpetually warped in and have a leaver penalty hung over their head unless they clean up the mess; these unprepared and frankly under-powered players will never get the hint and will probably never improve. Let those of the original team who choose to leave bare the consequence of the leaver penalty. Let those who finally realize they've created an impossible situation bare the consequence of a leaver penalty, not the new guy who warps in. Let him/her choose whether they wishes to help or leave. If no one chooses to stay and help then oh well, those left from the original team can either duke it out or leave and take their penalty.

-end rant

Last edited by cobalt1975; 08-26-2012 at 02:05 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 163
# 174
08-27-2012, 01:01 AM
I don't know if it's been pointed out, but if your PUG was full of terrible players, you could have just waited a couple of minutes, you could have left when you failed after the first stage, then you would have been only locked out of no-win for 30 minutes...

Just sayin'.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 586
# 175
08-27-2012, 03:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
So, should Cryptic remove Elite PvE queues altogether?

I'm not for or against... it's an honest question.
I do not agree. I play a lot of stf mission just that way and generally it works fine.
I think developers should simply resolve some iussue:

1) I'd like to queue only new stf mission
2) leaver penalty should be longer, 2 hours ban from every pve and pvp queue.
3) I'd like that all damages should always persist until explicit repair (actually when you leave a stf mission only one damage persist).
4) I'd like also that when a ship collects too many damages (ex 5) the player can't respawn and takes a one day penalty.


I think a elite stf should have some more requirements:

1) ships must have only [borg] weapons and no rainbow ship should be allowed! It is an elite mission, intended only for "elite captains and ships" full prepared to engage borg's ships.

2) ships must have no damages.


That is not a final solution, but should remove a loot of noobs who do not care to learn how to equip their ships and how to complete the mission

I hope my english is not too bad!
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 61
# 176
08-27-2012, 06:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kagurazaka77 View Post
I don't know if it's been pointed out, but if your PUG was full of terrible players, you could have just waited a couple of minutes, you could have left when you failed after the first stage, then you would have been only locked out of no-win for 30 minutes...

Just sayin'.
It would be better if you could back out as soon as the guy with the sword, the guy with the minigun, and the guy with 30 injuries beam in. You know it's going to be impossible, so why have the penalty?
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,541
# 177
08-27-2012, 08:33 AM
How about...

a No-Penalty Exit on Team Wipe?

Say if the entire team is on a respawn timer at the same time, an "Abort" button appears giving the player the option to exit the mission with no or reduced penalty for leaving?

That would give an experienced player the option -- when the mission is dragging on because of people getting wiped -- to just quit fighting, let himself go KABOOM, and hit the exit button without getting socked with the leaver penalty.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 387
# 178
08-27-2012, 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
How about...

a No-Penalty Exit on Team Wipe?

Say if the entire team is on a respawn timer at the same time, an "Abort" button appears giving the player the option to exit the mission with no or reduced penalty for leaving?

That would give an experienced player the option -- when the mission is dragging on because of people getting wiped -- to just quit fighting, let himself go KABOOM, and hit the exit button without getting socked with the leaver penalty.
Not bad. +1
I, however, would like a reduction or removal of the leaver penalty. When ii warp in and am stuck with a whole noob team (usually evident fairly quckly) I want to be able to leave and do a sucessful stf, not take an hour penalty b/c 4 noobs couldn't defend the kang...
When in doubt, (hehe) c4!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 444
# 179
08-27-2012, 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
How about...

a No-Penalty Exit on Team Wipe?

Say if the entire team is on a respawn timer at the same time, an "Abort" button appears giving the player the option to exit the mission with no or reduced penalty for leaving?

That would give an experienced player the option -- when the mission is dragging on because of people getting wiped -- to just quit fighting, let himself go KABOOM, and hit the exit button without getting socked with the leaver penalty.
no...why should the devs have to add yet another chunk of code to cater to people who don't have the common sense not to pug in the first place? and the leaver penalty is in place to keep people from taking the easy way out, which in it's own way griefs the people still in the mission as their now a person down or more, and then randomly more get added.

so now new people come and are penalized unless they also die and leave because the original person(s) left. the whole concept behind it was so people can't just bail leaving everyone else hanging AND screwing people who get dropped into it to fill the void.

tough it out or don't pug...simple choices...yet you're trying to remove or want to be removed the tough it out part.

the players already have a way out, they choose not to take it...that's not your responsibility, not the devs responsibility...it's no ones responsibility but theirs.
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,541
# 180
08-27-2012, 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadspacex64 View Post
no...why should the devs have to add yet another chunk of code to cater to people who don't have the common sense not to pug in the first place? and the leaver penalty is in place to keep people from taking the easy way out, which in it's own way griefs the people still in the mission as their now a person down or more, and then randomly more get added.

so now new people come and are penalized unless they also die and leave because the original person(s) left. the whole concept behind it was so people can't just bail leaving everyone else hanging AND screwing people who get dropped into it to fill the void.

tough it out or don't pug...simple choices...yet you're trying to remove or want to be removed the tough it out part.

the players already have a way out, they choose not to take it...that's not your responsibility, not the devs responsibility...it's no ones responsibility but theirs.
Actually, I'm in favor of the leaver penalty. But I also recognize that there are times when it isn't fair. Like recognizing that a 30 minute scenario shouldn't be taking two hours to complete. Some people are just plain insane... trying the same failed tactic over and over and expecting to get a different result.

If a scenario ever degenerates to the point where everyone, or nearly everyone, is on a long respawn timer at the same time -- clearly everyone has died more than once and the team has wiped or is in danger of wiping.

I think letting people off the hook at that point is probably fair. Not for failed optional objectives, not for simply taking too long, but for systematic breakdowns in teamwork that lead to everyone waiting for a respawn.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
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