Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 96
# 41
08-11-2012, 04:30 PM
The fleet advancement system and missions were sold to players on the idea that it was all about end game content. Why a character fresh of the academy boat can participate is beyond me.

Do lowbies not have enough content as it is to play? The auto-bolster feature is a lazy attempt to include them. Simply buffing hit points of a ship to rank 50 while leaving them with one or two bridge officer powers in an under equipped ship is inadequate at best.

Its just lazy design simply put.
http://www.the-bums.com
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,527
# 42
08-11-2012, 10:06 PM
As far as the leaver penalty is concerned it only affects one character. If you are worried you can switch characterss and play again.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,397
# 43
08-11-2012, 10:20 PM
Seems like there is ALWAYS a (or 2) Lt or Lt.Com in the group for Fleet Alert. This 99% of the time means we will FAIL. So do I bail and take 30min penalty or play for 15-20 minutes and earn nothing? Great choices Cryptic!

Even if you bump a Lt in a Miranda to be comparable to a VA in every way for ship HP, shields & weapon damage, he's STILL missing weapons, boff powers and skill points in various powers! The lower ranked characters need to be grouped together if possible. Don't saddle 3-4 VAs with having to work extra hard because they got a useless 1-2 LTs/LCs.

If you keep grouping levels 1 through 50 together, then make the events the level of the lowest player. I'll hand hold some LTs if it means a cake-walk for me.

Cause having 55 seconds left to kill a full HPed Siege Ship with a Miranda and little ol' Enterprise-A class cruiser in your 5-man group is an exercise in futility.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have stuff to rant about on the forums!

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 471
# 44
08-11-2012, 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fogerty1 View Post
Upon entering earlier, I attempted the No-Win scenario (Which is a VA50 Mission) and upon rez had a Captain with ZERO accolade points sitting next to me. Knowing full well he is a one hit wonder who will immediately explode cryning HELP and HILFE, leaving the rest of the team to have to carry him and spend costly consumables, as always, I left before it even started.
Well call me a troll or a n00b but most of my toons have very few accolades and as a rule I get to the fifth wave when I PUG No Win. So when people like me show up in your instance you should be able to zone out without repercussion or consequence?

Zoning leaves people in as much of a lurch as AFK heroes.

Edited to add: That was after Gozer added the bio-neutral warheads and before the Devs when and made No Win a little easier again.

Also when I PUG the 15 person starbase defense my group almost always finishes defending the freighters first, and when my team is busy congratulating themselves I am the first to dash off and help the other teams defend their freighters.

Highest number of freighters saved in Blockade is nineteen.

I even have taken my Commander and Captain alts into FEs without getting chewed out.

Nothing personal man but the last time I ran a parser in a PvE thing I easily did 2-3 times the damage of the next best damage dealer, on a science toon in a science ship.

I'm just saying just because someone is not a accolade hound does not mean they are worse than you. Sometimes they can be better.

BTW it is near, (unless you DOFFed you way there), impossible to get to VA without getting the damage received and dealt accolades.

Damn, and I thought I would like this guy just because his forum name is the same as John Fogerty, (he's the one in plaid).
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
They taste the same.

Last edited by piwright42; 08-12-2012 at 07:31 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 110
# 45
08-11-2012, 10:58 PM
when you fail you should have no timers.. i just failed kase cause someone that was shooting down the probes half way through decided to fly over to the other gate and start hitting that instead..
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,631
# 46
08-12-2012, 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnynormus View Post
The fleet advancement system and missions were sold to players on the idea that it was all about end game content. Why a character fresh of the academy boat can participate is beyond me.

Do lowbies not have enough content as it is to play? The auto-bolster feature is a lazy attempt to include them. Simply buffing hit points of a ship to rank 50 while leaving them with one or two bridge officer powers in an under equipped ship is inadequate at best.

Its just lazy design simply put.
Aren't these missions about the only content atm that gives Fleet marks? Esspecially for low levels? Ecluding them would prevent them from participating in the fleet base projects in a meaningful way.

Think about it... if you exclude them early on they will want to rush to endgame and VA level skipping valuable lessons on gameplay until they show up with a toothless rainbowboat which isn'T more effective than a tier 2 ship.

Take the chance to teach them a thing or two at the early stages and you get better VAs out of it.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 47
08-12-2012, 01:35 AM
ok its about Accolade points??

fine how about this

EVERY time you leave a mission before it Finishes you lose 50% of your accolade points

UNLESS you return before the end and the others "vote you back in"
Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9
# 48
08-12-2012, 02:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by assimilatedktar View Post
Yeah, sorry but I find myself unable to sympathize. If you leave your team to die before the fight starts just because you don't like the look of your assigned teammates then you shouldn't play at all. Half an hour is not enough of a penalty for that kind of behaviour.

Just imagine Sisko:

"WHAT? They want me to assault the Dominion lines flanked by two MIRANDAS??? Screw that, I'm going to fly to Risa."
True, but what if you join a Cure Ground and 2 people leave right off the bat. Then you realize one of the people that is still there doesn't even have a remodulator. You have no choice but to leave because there is no way to finish the STF and there is no failing to get out of it. Should you really end up penalized for someone elses stupidity?

Its happened to me 3 times this week.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 689
# 49
08-12-2012, 05:36 AM
I'm pretty sure the remodulator can be replicated on ground maps now.

The universal leaver penalty is an exceptionally bad idea. Especially for end-game players, queued content is the bulk of the content that's available. Locking them out of whatever they abandoned, for once or twice the duration they'd be locked out if they'd completed it, I find tolerable, but the whole across the board thing is unreasonable. Not to mention potentially counterproductive.

The common argument, levied against leavers or people who advocate upping the criteria for participation in some of these queued events is that they knew the forecast was cloudy, with a chance of morons, and that they should just deal with it. Or private queue with some friends who'll pull their own weight.

Of course, that argument turns right around. You know that if you suck, you're going to get left kneedeep in the mess you've made, and you should just deal with it. Or private queue with some friends who don't mind pulling your weight for you.

On the part of the defensive ones, it is really no more reasonable to expect people to be coerced into completing (near) hopeless scenarios with people who don't know what they're doing, don't respond to explanation and all too often don't even share a common language, held hostage by the prospect of being barred from washing away the bad taste your shared experience left them with for an extended period of time, than it is for the credential slash exclusionist crowd to require a bouncer at the door, to go over everything from level to accolades, from gear to bridge officer skill-levels, and your real life prescriptions, before you can get in. Maybe.

The problem is, one of these things is perfectly acceptable, and the other a complete taboo. It's come to bug me to hear time and again that it's okay to say quitter X should be forced through penalties to endure any amount of aggravation the antics of an incompetent, non-communicative teammember can deliver, but not to say that there should be some kind of benchmark for people to get into these instances in the first place. It's a hell of a double standard. Yes, it's hard to do especially for the STFs, maps that rely on tactics, but even so... People's suggestion of banning leavers for a day or longer is just outright ridiculous. And so is branching out into all the other PVE queues.

Admittedly, there's the less invested capable ones, caught in the middle of mommy and daddy's separation, who neither ragequit nor bring down epic failure upon the group. But all they really need not to be a victim of this is a more reliable and efficient way of replacing lost teammembers.

Of course, what those new teammembers will do, when they're called into an STF with just the one or two guys who drove their entire last team away, I can probably guess.
Reave

Last edited by hrisvalar; 08-12-2012 at 05:46 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 50
08-12-2012, 06:41 AM
Quote:
I'm pretty sure the remodulator can be replicated on ground maps now.
correct its in replicator tab


Quote:
The universal leaver penalty is an exceptionally bad idea. Especially for end-game players, queued content is the bulk of the content that's available. Locking them out of whatever they abandoned, for once or twice the duration they'd be locked out if they'd completed it, I find tolerable, but the whole across the board thing is unreasonable. Not to mention potentially counterproductive
.

leavers should be blocked from EVERYTHING queued for the duration of the block
they deserve it
perhaps they could use the time to run some missions.


Quote:
The common argument, levied against leavers or people who advocate upping the criteria for participation in some of these queued events is that they knew the forecast was cloudy, with a chance of morons, and that they should just deal with it. Or private queue with some friends who'll pull their own weight.
leavers ARE the morons in most cases

Quote:
Of course, that argument turns right around. You know that if you suck, you're going to get left kneedeep in the mess you've made, and you should just deal with it. Or private queue with some friends who don't mind pulling your weight for you.
most of the lowbies can find friends easily enough its the leavers who don't have any mostly


Quote:
On the part of the defensive ones, it is really no more reasonable to expect people to be coerced into completing (near) hopeless scenarios with people who don't know what they're doing, don't respond to explanation and all too often don't even share a common language, held hostage by the prospect of being barred from washing away the bad taste your shared experience left them with for an extended period of time, than it is for the credential slash exclusionist crowd to require a bouncer at the door, to go over everything from level to accolades, from gear to bridge officer skill-levels, and your real life prescriptions, before you can get in. Maybe.
fine so ALL Stfs gated to block Defiants
ALL fleet missions gated to block people who have quit on a team
and ALL content gated to block anyone who doesn't speak english??



Quote:
The problem is, one of these things is perfectly acceptable, and the other a complete taboo. It's come to bug me to hear time and again that it's okay to say quitter X should be forced through penalties to endure any amount of aggravation the antics of an incompetent, non-communicative teammember can deliver, but not to say that there should be some kind of benchmark for people to get into these instances in the first place.
not being a coward??
Not being an elitist??
Not being a complete JERK ??

Quote:
It's a hell of a double standard. Yes, it's hard to do especially for the STFs, maps that rely on tactics, but even so... People's suggestion of banning leavers for a day or longer is just outright ridiculous. And so is branching out into all the other PVE queues.
well we can't fine them half their accolade points or auto kick them from their fleets
(which they might fear more)
so yes bans of a day or more will teach them not to be gutless


Quote:
Of course, what those new teammembers will do, when they're called into an STF with just the one or two guys who drove their entire last team away, I can probably guess.
maybe its time to DITCH STF's entirely for these leavers
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