Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 31
08-19-2012, 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maelwy5 View Post
<snip>
You're kidding me, right?

Because that's EXCACTLY what it's doing:
Set Permenant Energy to 125, pop EPtW and fire Three beams and Weapon Power stays constant at 125.
Set Permenant Energy to 125 pop a Weapon battery, and fire Broadsides ... and Weapon Power stays constant at 125 for 10 seconds.
Set Permanent Energy to 125, pop EPtW and fire Broadsides ... and Energy will to dip excactly the EPtW increase higher than without EPtW.

At least in the version of the game that I'm playing right now that IS how it works.
On ALL my ships.
What's going on here, please? Are we playing different games ... or are you the biggest troll ever? Or worse?
Seriously, this is just hilarious, go test yourself!
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 369
# 32
08-19-2012, 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flekh View Post
You're kidding me, right?

Because that's EXCACTLY what it's doing:
Set Permenant Energy to 125, pop EPtW and fire Three beams and Weapon Power stays constant at 125.
Set Permenant Energy to 125 pop a Weapon battery, and fire Broadsides ... and Weapon Power stays constant at 125 for 10 seconds.
Set Permanent Energy to 125, pop EPtW and fire Broadsides ... and Energy will to dip excactly the EPtW increase higher than without EPtW.

At least in the version of the game that I'm playing right now that IS how it works.
On ALL my ships.
What's going on here, please? Are we playing different games ... or are you the biggest troll ever? Or worse?
Seriously, this is just hilarious, go test yourself!
It would be helpful if you actually quoted the bit you're disagreeing with.

In none of the above do you vary your "Permanent Weapons Energy" - you're varying whether you use EPTW or a Battery, both of which would qualify as 'Temporary Buffs' by your reckoning.

You just stated precisely what I would expect to see:
Any energy over 125 becomes a buffer, regardless of its source.

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 33
08-19-2012, 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maelwy5 View Post
It would be helpful if you actually quoted the bit you're disagreeing with.

In none of the above do you vary your "Permanent Weapons Energy" - you're varying whether you use EPTW or a Battery, both of which would qualify as 'Temporary Buffs' by your reckoning.

You just stated precisely what I would expect to see:
Any energy over 125 becomes a buffer, regardless of its source.
You really ARE thick, are you?
No if you overcap the permanent energy setting, you see no increase in dps AT ALL. Nada. Nothing.
Edit: unless the beam bug still works, but i won't go install beams on a KDF ship, I'd die in shame.
Edit2: actually, I'm pretty sure it's fixed, my sci test setup is overcapped by one point, and i never see it dip to <n>6, but always <n>5, so yes, it should be gone.

Last edited by flekh; 08-19-2012 at 01:15 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 369
# 34
08-19-2012, 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flekh View Post
You really ARE thick, are you?
No if you overcap the permanent energy setting, you see no increase in dps AT ALL. Nada. Nothing.
Prove it.


[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 955
# 35
08-19-2012, 02:14 PM
edited by poster

Last edited by lordfuzun; 08-19-2012 at 02:26 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 369
# 36
08-19-2012, 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maelwy5 View Post
Prove it.

In fact, don't bother. I got sick and tired of being accused of spreading misinformation, and you constantly arguing with no data to back you up... so for the audience's viewing pleasure, I proudly present:


How to test if weird stuff is happening with weapons power buffs from different sources

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Step #1: Beams.

Take a Federation Escort, with 2 beam arrays.
Weapons power setting is at 95, which gives us a total power of 125.
The extra energy is all from passive or "permanent style" weapons buffs.

If we fire both weapons, we can see the level our weapons power dips to is 115.

+ 2x Beam Arrays, 125/95 - screenshot
This is consistent with a power drain of 10 for two beam arrays.

This establishes our baseline.

-------------

Now, with that same ship, raise the weapons power level setting to 100 - which brings us up to a final level of 130. Again, all passive bonuses.

If this extra passive power bonus gives us a buffer above 125, then we can expect the power dip during our weapons cycle to only bring us down to 120 instead of our previous value of 115.

+ 2x Beam Arrays, 130/100 - screenshot
Well, Whaddaya know? It drops to 120.

-------------

OK, so we've proved that "permanent" bonuses are working as a buffer above 125.
What about "temporary" bonuses?

Lets try that again at 125/95, and this time use "EPS Power Transfer".

+ 2x Beam Arrays, 125/95 (with EPS) - screenshot

Oh... the power stays at 125, so it looks like the "Temporary" buff of EPS works as a buffer as well.

-------------

What about a different buff like EPTW1?
+ 2x Beam Arrays, 125/95 (with EPTW1) - screenshot
Again, it stays at 125. Looks like EPTW works as a buffer too.

And so, we've proven that there is no difference in weapons power buff sources with Beams.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Step #2: Cannons.

"Hang on!" you might say... "that could just be due to a bug in beams, right? Like the one Maelwy5 talked about earlier and actually spent all that time testing on his spreadsheet? I bet that flekh is right and CANNONS are affected by 'temporary' power buffs and not by 'permanent' ones!"

So let's try that again, same setup, except with 2x Cannons instead of 2x Beam Arrays.

+ 2x Cannons, 130/100 - screenshot

Ah HAH! So weapons power dips to 115. No permanent buff above 125 applies to cannons!
What about those "temporary" buffs then?

+ 2x Cannons, 125/95 (with EPS) - screenshot
+ 2x Cannons, 125/95 (with EPTW1) - screenshot

Again weapons power dips to 115.

"Gosh, it looks like Maelwy5 was right and there's no difference in buff sources... who'd have thought it?"

-----------------------------------------------------------------

So, yeah.

We've just proven that BEAMS are affected by Weapons Power over 125, and CANNONS are not.

Which, strangely enough, is exactly what I said earlier...

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]

Last edited by maelwy5; 08-19-2012 at 02:22 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,049
# 37
08-19-2012, 05:36 PM
First off, I would like to apologize as to how long this has taken, and thank anyone still watching this thread. RL is very, very complicated right now and it's not going to slow down soon, so it's taken a while.

Now, as for the combat logs:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B34...khvemE2X09xZEU

I am Marshall. He is a tactical officer, Alien species, with Soldier, Peak Health, Accurate and Elusive traits.

The main ship build was this:

Fore weapons - 3 Mk XI antiproton array (Borg), 1 Mk XI quantum torp (Borg)
Aft weapons - 3 Mk XI antiproton array (Borg), 1 Mk XI quantum torp (Borg)
Deflector, Shields and Engine - Borg
Engineering: 2x Neutronium Mk XII (green)
Science: 2x Field Emitter (Mk XI blue)
Tactical: 2x Antiproton Mag Regulator (Mk XI blue)

For the tactical ship, I had two of the Ody set consoles in the engineering slots, and one in a science slot, as well as an additional antiproton mag regulator.

For the science ship, I had two parts of the Ody set in the 4 science consoles, and stuck another neutronium console in the engineering slot this freed up (mk XI blue).

Bridge officer slots were identical between the ships. I do not recall the power allocation off the top of my head, although what I did was I took power from weapons until EPtW1 would have "filled" it to 125 in its cycle, and all that extra power I routed into the shields. This usually gave me 125 weapons and 117 or so to shields (with EPtS2) as I recall. This may have been a mistake as a previous poster had indicated (e.g. that I should have just left it at base 100 weapon power and gone over 125), but I did it for both ships, so I figure that that's "even" for at least looking at this. Plus, the data is already gathered so I would rather not gather it again before people have even looked at it, especially since it may take even longer to get more data.

I should note that although I used Beam Fire at Will a lot early on, I stopped doing that, because I figured out it may skew the results in one direction or another.

My general rotation is EPtW1, TT1, EPtS2/3, A2SIF3.

My build is here: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...d1999v081912_0

I am aware there are still 18.5K points unspent; I'm indecisive. They may end up going into inertial dampeners, starship hit points, subsystem repair, or ground powers. I am also NOT spec'd specifically for the Odyssey, as I fly a few different cruisers and a couple of escorts as the mood strikes me. I seem to have at least decent effectiveness with them.

I do have commentary on some of these (a little write-up of each). If people want to see it I can provide it.

My personal analysis is, once again, that it doesn't seem to make too much of a difference, although again, I could be wrong. I tried to have a variety of missions, some of which that required longer target locks and some that didn't (and of course, most missions have short-term locks AND long-term locks).

Anyway, thank you for any insight you can give me, I greatly appreciate it.

Edit: As an additional note, raw DPS is not a completely overriding concern overall. If it was, I would be commanding an escort. However, I still want to get the best that I can out of the Odyssey Tactical and Science options and see which one is best for my playstyle.

Last edited by red01999; 08-19-2012 at 06:53 PM.
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