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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 11
08-13-2012, 12:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
Interesting. Which do you think is more effective, the DBB or the DHC? Cannons seem like they require a BOff to really get their effectiveness up there so you can rotate some iteration of CRF constantly.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 757
# 12
08-13-2012, 12:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by red01999 View Post
I would also like to ask, however, in addition to souping up the various Vor'cha permutations (which will probably become my main ship), if anyone has any thoughts on how to make the Anniversary Bortas usable. As I stated in my original post, it's so sluggish that I almost can't use it at all. So any thoughts on that would be appreciated - I'd rather not have a flagship doing nothing, after all.
My sig has some builds you can look through, read the notes on each page for more info.

I fly a command Bortasqu but compared to the regular Bortas it shouldn't be much different.
A cannon build is still doable if you only PvE. Maybe 1 DHC then 2x single cannons for the 180 arc, then a torp. All turrets rear.


I just use Evasive maneuvers when it needs to really get turning. With PvE though you can usually line up you next target reasonably, just plan ahead. Also reversing and turning is often quicker to get a bead on the target than moving forward whilst turning. APO helps with turn rate too.

Just spec 9 into thrusters and get 2-3 purple conn officer doffs that reduce evasive maneuvers CD (purples reduce CD by 5s each). I think you can pop evasive every 30s? So that'd halve the time and just keep popping it when needed. Though I find every 30s to be enough, if not, APO is there.
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Devs, need Fleet Orion Marauder and Dacoit please! :-)

Using - Bulwark, Voth Fighter. Favs - Fleet Corsair, Mogh, Bastion, Nicor, JHEC, JAS
Some others - Orion Marauder, Chel Grett, Guramba, Risian Corvette, Risian Cruiser
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,335
# 13
08-13-2012, 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by red01999 View Post
Hey, folks. Thus far on my KDF I've been using a Bird of Prey, and doing alright, but I'm also a big fan of cruisers Fed-side. However, I don't know the best way to outfit the KDF cruisers.

I'd like to take advantage of the ability to mount dual cannons/DHC and maneuverability if at all possible, but it seems like that will be very difficult. The Vor'cha-R has limited options for tactical BOff powers. The MU Battle Cruiser (have but haven't opened) has even more limited options. And the Bortasq (anniversary version) is so combersome it seems like it's almost impossible to use, dual cannons or not.

With these thoughts in mind I would appreciate any thoughts on how to best leverage these ships, and what I can do to make them a little different from their Fed counterparts but still useful/fun to fly.

Thanks for any help you can give me! Also, if it matters, my KDF is a Klingon tactical officer with the Accurate trait.

It is so ridiculously easy to use Dual Cannons effectively on KDF cruisers that not doing so is extremely questionable. So use some. DEM is also a nice skill to use for fleet engagements. Its not as key in STF's, but in STF's just use BORG gear and your good to go.

And the Bortas out of the entire group is the only one that really can't possibly use beams. It's far to slow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt8-lDmbpeQ&feature=plcp Cannon Bortas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWSuV0B8dbw&feature=plcp This is actually a commander level D7 using cannons in stf's. Someone tell me again how dualies don't work on a cruiser.

The second video does show beams vs cannons. The absolutely crazy moves you can do in anything that isn't a bortas allows for a fore and aft torpedo, and as that can be very handy its worth looking at.

And that's different from flying a cruiser fed side, and its fun, and that was your question so I hope that helps you out.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,261
# 14
08-13-2012, 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by red01999 View Post
Interesting. Which do you think is more effective, the DBB or the DHC? Cannons seem like they require a BOff to really get their effectiveness up there so you can rotate some iteration of CRF constantly.
To CRF, or not to CRF?

To constantly make use of CRF as much as possible, there's pretty much 2 ways of going about it.

A. Using DOFFs that lessen Cannon ability cooldowns.
B. Using multiple CRFs. Whether you do it with only 1 possible BOFF position like 1 LtCmdr TAC BOFF position (example: TT1, CRF1, CRF2), or two TAC BOFF positions in parallel (CRF2 x2 from 2 TAC BOFF slots, a LtCmdr and Cmdr positions together).

For most cruisers outside the Fleet Vor'Cha and Bortasqu Cruiser derivatives, you will not be able to use multiple CRF. Most cruisers can consider themselves even lucky to have a Lt TAC BOFF slot anywhere, and that would be their best one. On a ship like that, you would have to give up alot of DOFF spots if you want CRF going as much as possible. For me, I was very content to have CRF going only on critical, most opportune times when flying the standard Vor'Cha Retrofit from BGen. The Mirror Vor'Cha will not even let you put a single CRF1 anywhere.

Now, DBB or DHCs. Firstly, the DBB is mostly a longer ranged weapon, compared to the in-your-face nature of cannons in general that hit harder the closer you are. The DBB damage does not drop off drastically with range, especially from 5k+ like cannons will. Beams in general are great steady damage weapons regardless of range, but in close range work, cannons will rock.

For the Vor'Cha, you are given alot of offensive options. Outside of the fleet system's K'T'Inga Retrofits, all Vor'cha variants have the highest turn rates of any cruiser in the entire game for their appropriate tiers. 11 for the former, 10 for the latter, and the fleet system K'T'Inga Retrifits are essentially inferior in most parts to even the basic Vor'Cha at BGen. The Vor'Cha can readily do beam boat if you so wish, to include DBBs. But the strengths of the basic Vor'Cha make it the best, all-around, cannon-capable Cruiser in the game, simply because it has good general strengths as a cruiser, and great maneuverability to actually make bringing DHCs/DCs to bear on targets.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,335
# 15
08-14-2012, 07:14 AM
You don't bother is the answer. You use torpedo abilities. And you use DEM if you want to boost cannon damage.

If you have the Fleet or the Bortas then sure you can mess about with those cannon abilities as it becomes very beneficial to do so.

Don't mess about with dual beams. There's just no reason to do so when with the high ROF of cannons on DEM.

Unless you like the looks. If you like the looks then I fully support dual beams. I have one on my Karfi for that very reason. Plus I payed for the damn thing I'm using it.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,335
# 16
08-14-2012, 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warmaker001b View Post
To CRF, or not to CRF?

To constantly make use of CRF as much as possible, there's pretty much 2 ways of going about it.

A. Using DOFFs that lessen Cannon ability cooldowns.
B. Using multiple CRFs. Whether you do it with only 1 possible BOFF position like 1 LtCmdr TAC BOFF position (example: TT1, CRF1, CRF2), or two TAC BOFF positions in parallel (CRF2 x2 from 2 TAC BOFF slots, a LtCmdr and Cmdr positions together).

For most cruisers outside the Fleet Vor'Cha and Bortasqu Cruiser derivatives, you will not be able to use multiple CRF. Most cruisers can consider themselves even lucky to have a Lt TAC BOFF slot anywhere, and that would be their best one. On a ship like that, you would have to give up alot of DOFF spots if you want CRF going as much as possible. For me, I was very content to have CRF going only on critical, most opportune times when flying the standard Vor'Cha Retrofit from BGen. The Mirror Vor'Cha will not even let you put a single CRF1 anywhere.

Now, DBB or DHCs. Firstly, the DBB is mostly a longer ranged weapon, compared to the in-your-face nature of cannons in general that hit harder the closer you are. The DBB damage does not drop off drastically with range, especially from 5k+ like cannons will. Beams in general are great steady damage weapons regardless of range, but in close range work, cannons will rock.

For the Vor'Cha, you are given alot of offensive options. Outside of the fleet system's K'T'Inga Retrofits, all Vor'cha variants have the highest turn rates of any cruiser in the entire game for their appropriate tiers. 11 for the former, 10 for the latter, and the fleet system K'T'Inga Retrifits are essentially inferior in most parts to even the basic Vor'Cha at BGen. The Vor'Cha can readily do beam boat if you so wish, to include DBBs. But the strengths of the basic Vor'Cha make it the best, all-around, cannon-capable Cruiser in the game, simply because it has good general strengths as a cruiser, and great maneuverability to actually make bringing DHCs/DCs to bear on targets.


Really just curious what your reasoning is there. What are the facts on that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWSuV0B8dbw&feature=plcp

That is a commander level ship. Not even a fleet version. Just having a grand old time in some end game PVE.
So really I just don't get it where the Vor'cha is really better than any of the other ships outside the Bortas. All of the other KDF cruisers are very similar.

The Bortas is the best in terms of firepower of course until you reach the Fleet version of the Vor'cha. At that point sure the Vor'cha will be huge in terms of its manueverability and Boff stations.
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Last edited by thissler; 08-14-2012 at 07:24 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,066
# 17
08-14-2012, 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warmaker001b View Post
The Mirror Vor'Cha will not even let you put a single CRF1 anywhere.
Yes it will, they removed the Ensign Tac to make it an ensign Sci, but left the Lieutenant Tac, so you can have one CRF1 at your disposal.

For STFs I ran Tac Team I and CRF I, and for Fleet Alerts I used Torp Spread I and CSV I on the Mirror Vor'cha.

True, stacking DOffs is a bit of a pain if you have your DOffs setup already, but coming off of a Kar'fi myself there was little trouble swapping the hangar cooldown DOffs out for them. Well, beyond the EC costs to get them off the exchange, anyways.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,261
# 18
08-14-2012, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
Really just curious what your reasoning is there. What are the facts on that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWSuV0B8dbw&feature=plcp

That is a commander level ship. Not even a fleet version. Just having a grand old time in some end game PVE.
So really I just don't get it where the Vor'cha is really better than any of the other ships outside the Bortas. All of the other KDF cruisers are very similar.

The Bortas is the best in terms of firepower of course until you reach the Fleet version of the Vor'cha. At that point sure the Vor'cha will be huge in terms of its manueverability and Boff stations.
The K'T'Inga has always handled beautifully. There is no question on that, and the 11 turn rate for the starbase version will persist in that quality.

But when you look at the stats between the basic BGen Vor'Cha and even the Fleet K'T'Inga, my opinion goes along these lines:

Identical Qualities:
BOFF Slots
Weapon Slots
Device Slots

Pro K'T'Inga
* 11 turn rate vs 10 of the Vor'Cha. By far the strongest benefit (and only real benefit) of the K'T'Inga.
* +1 SCI console slot

Pro Vor'Cha
* Stronger Shield Strength (Shield Mod 1 vs .94)
* Stronger Hull (36k vs 34,650)
* Larger Crew (1.5k vs 800)

The wiki isn't quite accurate so you're going to have to verify with in-game shipyard info.

I can understand if one feels benefits of the Fleet K'T'Inga are neutral compared to the BGen Vor'Cha Retrofit (standard T5 version). For me, that weaker hull and shield strength is a concern. It may not be much, but it is enough for me.

Why? For a supposedly superior ship available via the Fleet Starbase System, even the Fleet K'T'Inga is not a superior choice over a ship you can take for free upon promotion to BGen.

Is the Fleet K'T'Inga worth 200k Fleet Credits? It is a Tier 1 shipyard warship. None of them are worth that. Considering how much resources one gives up for even 200k Fleet Credits, not worth it.

Is the Fleet K'T'Inga worth 20k Fleet Credits and 4 FSMs? No way. Just no possible way are these miniscule benefits worth that much money.

Either route of purchase of the Fleet K'T'Inga (which is clearly superior to its very mediocre Retrofit version), the value is not worth it considering how much it costs. And consider also that this ship, like all starbase system ships, are expensive single character purchases and not account wide.

For the standard T5 Vor'cha:

Is it worth 120k Dil? That is up to you. Any 120k Dil purchase is something not to be taken lightly.

Is it worth spending your BGen Free Ship Token on? Damn straight yes if you like high turning, rugged cruisers that sling around DC/DHC weapons easily.

For me, the basic, very possibly *free* Vor'Cha Retrofit, gives the player a sturdy Cruiser foundation. Add onto that that it is the 2nd highest turning Cruiser behind the K'T'Inga, and sturdier to a "superior" Fleet K'T'Inga, one cannot go wrong with picking the Vor'Cha Retrofit. If you want a great turning cruiser that is tough and can bring narrow arc weapons to bear with ease than most other cruisers in the game, and not have to bleed so much resources to get, then you simply cannot go wrong with the BGen Vor'Cha Retrofit. It gives most things that one could want from the Fleet K'T'Inga quite possibly free upon reaching BGen.

I'm not saying that you cannot have fun with the K'T'Inga Cruisers or kill people in PVP with it. But when you look at the stats and how much Fleet Credits and actual money are involved, and what you get for those costs, the comparison goes heavily in favor of the Vor'Cha.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,335
# 19
08-15-2012, 06:36 AM
"essentially inferior in most parts" Still waiting for the facts on that. Oh nevermind. We'll be waiting a long time. Because you don't have any.

Lets just toss any considerations of price out the window. That wasn't the question. You said the ship is essentially inferior. Not pricey.

Let's also toss aside the size of the crew. If you're REALLY considering that get a cruiser. Honestly don't be dense.

When you actually ever get IN a fleet Kt you see that compared to an identical Vorcha that it has 96% of the hull strength. Really? Are you really going to put on your game face and say....It may not be much, but it is enough for me? That's some funny ****. You would NEVER notice that in game play. And you KNOW you never would. Don't pretend otherwise. I bet you're great at poker.

Also as you are in those ships you would notice that the Kt has about 115% of the shields of the Vorcha. Seems significant to me. But not really game changing. Will I notice that my Kt has more shields than a Vorcha? In most circumstances probably not but sure they are there.

Turn rates and movement are overall so close that you couldn't tell the difference. No you couldn't and don't act like you can. The ships already are so skittish when under evasive and aux to ID that they zip around like rats on crack.

The Kt gets an extra console. If you don't know what that is for well that's something you need to work out.

If you have a problem with resources that also is something you need to work out.

If you have a problem with cryptic selling ships again guess what? You need to work that out.

So if you want some actually facts that you may notice when in the game, the two ships are almost the same. The Kt has slightly less hull and markedly more shields than the Vorcha. The Kt has one more science console.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 20
08-15-2012, 07:01 AM
So I got into a Mirror Universe Vor'cha last night out of boredom (why not, it's cheap and would've taken less time than levelling an alt to 50 or spending 120k dil on a ship I might not like).

Jesus God do Feds get the shaft when it comes to cruisers! This thing handles like some of the swifter Sci ships, pop EM and Aux2ID on there and you're approaching escort maneuverability.

I can't conceivably imagine why you wouldn't put DHCs on the thing, maybe DBBs if you want more burst but DHCs on this ship rip through just about everything like hot butter, and your turn is awesome anyway so whatever works. DEM3 on a ship that has no power issues (you're a cruiser, just double up on EPtW1)? Yes please.

I've tried out some of the newer mines and I quite like chronitons (those + Tac-buffed EWP = GG) as well as plasma, you could probably really piss someone off by Tac-buffing a tricobalt and trapping someone in said EWP plus a tractor beam. It's great fun experimenting because you're an eight-weapon ship and really, if it doesn't turn out great, you're only missing a turret so who gives a fark.

If I had that extra Tac slot from the standard Vor'cha I'd probably get some torp spread action going and it'd be real serious mode.

Vor'cha owns!
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