Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,448
# 21
08-13-2012, 08:51 AM
I can agree with that. On-screen, multiple beams could be fired at the same time from the same strip (with each shot having a mini charge animation too).. oh, it would be sweet.
nynik | Join Date: Dec 2009
<Dev> Oaks@dstahl: *checks for CBS listening devices in the office*
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 22
08-13-2012, 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Nagative, Nagative!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go back at look at "Best of Both Worlds" and you will see all the foward firing positions. If you don't have a copy of the episode, then got read about the Galaxy Class in Memery Alpha.
they weren't firing to deal max damage, they were firing as many beams as possible to hit the cube with as many different beam frequencies as possible to get some kind of effect. you never see a galaxy class fire like that again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Oh, yeah? Well, soft canon this! The USS Venture was a Galaxy Class starship that lead Galaxy wings during the Dominion War and It has phaser blisters on top of its nacelles. Read all about it in Memory Alpha, or as I always say, watch Star Trek.
it was only seen like that when they hadn't repaired the damage to the 4 foot model they inflicted to it when they added all that crap to it for AGT. that same ship was later seen in cgi without those nacelle mounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
What I would love most, is that beam arrays stacked to one single beam, instead seeing 4 copies from same hardpoint. I wish there would be some beam arrays that take 1, 2, or even 4 forward slots to act as one beam.

The reason i dislike all beam cruisers is how stupidly it looks broadside.
ships with phaser arrays do not fire 8 beams at 1 target if they want to deal maximum damage. in the case of the galaxy class with the largest most powerful array on any starfleet ship, its larger dorcel array has 200 emitters in it. during a full array discharge, the moving glow effect you see is the energy stored in each emitter traveling to the fireing point, it can all be discharged in 1 blast anywhere on the array. the effect of a lot of emitters in an array is additive, it really is as simple as the longer the array, the more powerful your per shot damage will be. thats why you basically never see a galaxy class use an array other then its main saucer arrays, they are only really their for point defense of targets outside the fireing arc of the main arrays.

this is why the galaxy X lance makes no sense, what a step backward. the ship already has the biggest gun in the fleet, with a nearly unlimited fireing arc, yet they strap this redundant low arc death ray with all the disadvantages the weapons they used had before they went to arrays. the best thing about arrays are its packaging, they don't need this enormous barrel to fire powerful shots, its spread out across the surface of the ship, the only significant space it takes up internally is the large amount of EPS conduits running to groups of emitters. as always, it was as powerful as the writers wanted it to be, just like how the writers made the enterprise this weak underdog in nearly every other episode.

the worst part is, the galaxy is the weakest offensive cruiser in game when it had the most firepower in canon. at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d734afLFPds#t=0m38s, it fires 10 torpedoes in less then a second, and several full array discharges at 1 a second. there hasn't been any other on screen moment were a galaxy got to flex its muscles like that, and it was only allowed to because its target was invincible or imaginary or whatever. every time you see a galaxy class get its ass kicked, and it didn't put out a show of force like that, its basically canon violating and writers hamstringing the ship. the Odyssey fight and generations fight, and the rascals fight would have been over in about 2 seconds if the galaxy was allowed to fire like that more often.

this game treated beam weapons so incorrectly that its basically unsalvageable. phasers are the only energy type that is comparable with arrays. there are no disruptor arrays or polaron arrays, all these weapons are basically fired out of a bank or gun barrel, no one else has ever been seen using anything like phaser arrays. in game if they were done correctly they would be extreamly overpowered, a galaxy class would be fireing a beam that did more damage per shot then a DHC with a 360 degree fireing arc. the very least we can hope for is better hardpoint placement, so beams regardless of how many there are fire from the correct spots.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 23
08-13-2012, 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
they weren't firing to deal max damage, they were firing as many beams as possible to hit the cube with as many different beam frequencies as possible to get some kind of effect. you never see a galaxy class fire like that again.


it was only seen like that when they hadn't repaired the damage to the 4 foot model they inflicted to it when they added all that crap to it for AGT. that same ship was later seen in cgi without those nacelle mounts.


ships with phaser arrays do not fire 8 beams at 1 target if they want to deal maximum damage. in the case of the galaxy class with the largest most powerful array on any starfleet ship, its larger dorcel array has 200 emitters in it. during a full array discharge, the moving glow effect you see is the energy stored in each emitter traveling to the fireing point, it can all be discharged in 1 blast anywhere on the array. the effect of a lot of emitters in an array is additive, it really is as simple as the longer the array, the more powerful your per shot damage will be. thats why you basically never see a galaxy class use an array other then its main saucer arrays, they are only really their for point defense of targets outside the fireing arc of the main arrays.

this is why the galaxy X lance makes no sense, what a step backward. the ship already has the biggest gun in the fleet, with a nearly unlimited fireing arc, yet they strap this redundant low arc death ray with all the disadvantages the weapons they used had before they went to arrays. the best thing about arrays are its packaging, they don't need this enormous barrel to fire powerful shots, its spread out across the surface of the ship, the only significant space it takes up internally is the large amount of EPS conduits running to groups of emitters. as always, it was as powerful as the writers wanted it to be, just like how the writers made the enterprise this weak underdog in nearly every other episode.

the worst part is, the galaxy is the weakest offensive cruiser in game when it had the most firepower in canon. at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d734afLFPds#t=0m38s, it fires 10 torpedoes in less then a second, and several full array discharges at 1 a second. there hasn't been any other on screen moment were a galaxy got to flex its muscles like that, and it was only allowed to because its target was invincible or imaginary or whatever. every time you see a galaxy class get its ass kicked, and it didn't put out a show of force like that, its basically canon violating and writers hamstringing the ship. the Odyssey fight and generations fight, and the rascals fight would have been over in about 2 seconds if the galaxy was allowed to fire like that more often.

this game treated beam weapons so incorrectly that its basically unsalvageable. phasers are the only energy type that is comparable with arrays. there are no disruptor arrays or polaron arrays, all these weapons are basically fired out of a bank or gun barrel, no one else has ever been seen using anything like phaser arrays. in game if they were done correctly they would be extreamly overpowered, a galaxy class would be fireing a beam that did more damage per shot then a DHC with a 360 degree fireing arc. the very least we can hope for is better hardpoint placement, so beams regardless of how many there are fire from the correct spots.
it doesn't matter, its still was firing all foward arcs. This game is only one of two Star Trek Games the doesn't fire all the weapons properly. I have played almost all existing Star Trek games, and they use all of the existing strips and hardpoints.

It was not the same model as the Dreadnought Enterprise model. In fact the nacelle phaser blisters were facing the opposite direction than the "All Good Things" Model. You also must know that the CGI ships almost always never look exactly like the actual model ships. CGI have some dimentional errors just as ships in the game do. It takes a detailed eye to catch these differences.

The Lance make alot of sence because the Klingons have made very large tough ships that normal phasers have a harder time penitrating. The Dreadnought was made to be a difference against overwhelming odds. The Dreadnought was not called by namesake because its was full of mediocre weapons to be matched by opponents. It was to overpower great numbers of opponents. The Lance's size helps it incorperate convergence of many lasers or particle beams into one great powerful beam, the same way very power lasers are made on Earth, today. The Lance need that extra power to cut through shields, and hull like a hot knife through butter.

It doesn't matter if you don't like the ship or not. The ship is made by makers of Star Trek and now it exist. This thread is not about who likes the Galaxy-X or not. Its about making the weapons fire out of the existing strips or hardpoints versus firing out of random hull locations.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 24
08-13-2012, 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
it doesn't matter, its still was firing all foward arcs. This game is only one of two Star Trek Games the doesn't fire all the weapons properly. I have played almost all existing Star Trek games, and they use all of the existing strips and hardpoints.

It was not the same model as the Dreadnought Enterprise model. In fact the nacelle phaser blisters were facing the opposite direction than the "All Good Things" Model. You also must know that the CGI ships almost always never look exactly like the actual model ships. CGI have some dimentional errors just as ships in the game do. It takes a detailed eye to catch these differences.

The Lance make alot of sence because the Klingons have made very large tough ships that normal phasers have a harder time penitrating. The Dreadnought was made to be a difference against overwhelming odds. The Dreadnought was not called by namesake because its was full of mediocre weapons to be matched by opponents. It was to overpower great numbers of opponents. The Lance's size helps it incorperate convergence of many lasers or particle beams into one great powerful beam, the same way very power lasers are made on Earth, today. The Lance need that extra power to cut through shields, and hull like a hot knife through butter.

It doesn't matter if you don't like the ship or not. The ship is made by makers of Star Trek and now it exist. This thread is not about who likes the Galaxy-X or not. Its about making the weapons fire out of the existing strips or hardpoints versus firing out of random hull locations.
I couldnt care less about the stats, but how it looks tbh. If I have 3 beam arrays equiped in front, let them be merged to single beam. Not numerical but visually.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,973
# 25
08-13-2012, 05:06 PM
but before beam visuals are changed, cryptic needs to make the cannon bolts move much, much faster...
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 51
# 26
08-13-2012, 05:41 PM
That suggestion is great because I always hated the hardpoints they use on the Sovereign.

It has very long arrays which would be able to fire backwards but Cryptic chose the end of the Sov which also shoots through it's warpengines.

The same with the Negh'Var. It's "triangle" on the back of the ship has arrays which looks forward but only shoots backwards and to the sites.

I also would like it to see only 1 beam per array with a mini loading befor shooting (like in the movies).
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# 27
08-13-2012, 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
it doesn't matter, its still was firing all foward arcs. This game is only one of two Star Trek Games the doesn't fire all the weapons properly. I have played almost all existing Star Trek games, and they use all of the existing strips and hardpoints.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File..._Borg_cube.jpg

note the scale of the target. nearly all arrays on the ship could hit a faceing that large. thats not the case with any other ship it could posibly shoot at. needle pricking a target with weak shots is a waist of energy, all the power going into a single shot would have a much more devastating effect, something only the saucer phasers are capable of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
It was not the same model as the Dreadnought Enterprise model. In fact the nacelle phaser blisters were facing the opposite direction than the "All Good Things" Model. You also must know that the CGI ships almost always never look exactly like the actual model ships. CGI have some dimentional errors just as ships in the game do. It takes a detailed eye to catch these differences.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Galaxy_class_model

"Labeled USS Venture (NCC-71854), the model was featured at the end of the episode as part of a relief force, interestingly sporting the phaser assemblies on the nacelles as featured in "All Good Things...", albeit in a reverse orientation.

It's performance in the episode proved to be the very last time, the four-foot model, or any of the physical studio models for that matter, was used as a production asset, the next (new footage) appearance of a Galaxy class vessel in "Call to Arms" already being executed as a CGI effect."

it also talks about the galaxy X being parts added on to the 4 foot model. you cant see the top of the nacelles during the odyssey battle iirc, it could very well have had those left over nacelle hardpoints as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
It doesn't matter if you don't like the ship or not. The ship is made by makers of Star Trek and now it exist. This thread is not about who likes the Galaxy-X or not. Its about making the weapons fire out of the existing strips or hardpoints versus firing out of random hull locations.
its actually about what looks most canon, and thats all shots coming from the main array. when separated every array on the secondary hull should be used, theres no reason to skip those 2 on the back of the neck. an eventual separated galaxy x can fire from its nacelles all it wants, i could care less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wotertool View Post
That suggestion is great because I always hated the hardpoints they use on the Sovereign.

It has very long arrays which would be able to fire backwards but Cryptic chose the end of the Sov which also shoots through it's warpengines.

The same with the Negh'Var. It's "triangle" on the back of the ship has arrays which looks forward but only shoots backwards and to the sites.

I also would like it to see only 1 beam per array with a mini loading befor shooting (like in the movies).
agreed on the soverign. there are 3 aft arrays on each side of the saucer on the top, and 2 underneath but they could also use the ventral secondary hull array too. along with the arrays on the pylon each could have an aft phaser hardpoint
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 28
08-13-2012, 10:06 PM
There is only one array that can only be used after sauser separation, and thats the dorsal array of the battle section of the ship. Quit making up stats and adding in facts that are not backed up by any makers of Star Trek or any affiliated site.


Here, read this whole page and you will learn something. There no need to speculate when there is writen facts.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Galaxy_class
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# 29
08-13-2012, 10:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
There is only one array that can only be used after sauser separation, and thats the dorsal array of the battle section of the ship. Quit making up stats and adding in facts that are not backed up by any makers of Star Trek or any affiliated site.


Here, read this whole page and you will learn something. There no need to speculate when there is written facts.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Galaxy_class
im not making up anything. thats how phasers work, it is backed up in the tng technical manual made by the makers of star trek, and the glow effect you see on tv before arrays fire. they are the most canon thing next to the tv show because they were made by the staff of the show.

tng technical manual, see for yourself

http://www.paragonsigma.com/tempuplo...82%20Pages.pdf

page 123. if you need further explanation i can provide it.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 30
08-13-2012, 11:23 PM
Anyway, we are arguing about ships that are and always be obsole in STO unless console mechanics change (like tripple stats/one from each).

The way STO is heading, there will be "soon" ships with 6 tactical consoles and such, making ships with 2 tactical consoles even more laughable than they are now.
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