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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 147
Yup. We have dual heavy cannons, dual cannons, and single cannons. Out of the 3 only single cannons have a better arc. Sto wiki states plainly that the narrower the arc the more powerful the weapon. If this is true then it leads to another question. Why do dual cannons have the same arc as a dual heavy? Why isn't their Arc in between a dual heavy and a single cannon?

These are good questions for a Dev to answer since the majority of pvp escorts in the game not only DO NOT use dual cannons, but don't use single cannons either. That's right. 90% of the pvp community DOES NOT use anything other than dual heavy cannons on their escorts. Why? Because the community as a whole cannot see the value damage-wise or volley-wise to use anything other than a dual heavy cannon on their escorts for only the most effective pvp gameplay. So i'd love to hear YOUR explanation on which ship each cannon type is meant to be used on and WHY. Because it seems a waste whenever players generally will not use a particular skill or weapon in any game.

-Captain Tripwire-

Let no other player discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Though you may walk alone through looming shadows of doubt cast upon you by your enemies. Forge your heart with iron casting its shape out of only your pure will to push forward. You will not be denied eventually.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 102
# 2
08-12-2012, 01:25 PM
Makes sense to me.

Aytanhi of TSI, TSI fleet founder and leader OrganizedPVP channel Admin
Feel free to ask me about PVP or starship strategies. "No, I am not Borg!"
/channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 3
08-12-2012, 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwire690 View Post
Yup. We have dual heavy cannons, dual cannons, and single cannons. Out of the 3 only single cannons have a better arc. Sto wiki states plainly that the narrower the arc the more powerful the weapon. If this is true then it leads to another question. Why do dual cannons have the same arc as a dual heavy? Why isn't their Arc in between a dual heavy and a single cannon?

These are good questions for a Dev to answer since the majority of pvp escorts in the game not only DO NOT use dual cannons, but don't use single cannons either. That's right. 90% of the pvp community DOES NOT use anything other than dual heavy cannons on their escorts. Why? Because the community as a whole cannot see the value damage-wise or volley-wise to use anything other than a dual heavy cannon on their escorts for only the most effective pvp gameplay. So i'd love to hear YOUR explanation on which ship each cannon type is meant to be used on and WHY. Because it seems a waste whenever players generally will not use a particular skill or weapon in any game.

-Captain Tripwire-
That was actually a sorta stupid question. Oh maybe it was you trying to be a smart ass that comes off so stupid. But whatever. Dual cannons and dual heavy cannons have the same DPS. You likely noticed this. Maybe you didn't. So the weapons with the narrow arc are more powerful than the ones with the wide arc.

Dual cannons gain greater benefit from abilities that happen on a per hit basis.

Dual heavy cannons gain greater benefit from abilities that work off of base damage or ROF.

So ships without the tac stations to buff cannons do better with standard duals.

Like a KDF cruiser.

Hey why aren't there any single heavy cannons? Now there's a question for you.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 147
# 4 Smart Ass
08-12-2012, 05:24 PM
I don't appreciate your smart ass response. If I dont know the answer to a question then its not stupid for me to ask it. I'm glad you know everything. I don't. And I'm glad it makes sense to Aytanhi. But it doesn't make sense to me. Oh and I asked Hilbert today Aytanhi. And he is also not sure WHY dual heavy cannons simply do more damage than duals. So since it makes so much sense to you perhaps you should explain it to Hilbert also. 90% of escort players in the pvp community don't use dual cannons. Not only that but there is no tool tip to say you are absolutely right.

Your explanation seems rational. And it'd be awesome if you are correct. Maybe a Dev will respond to verify that you've got it right. But how is a beginning player to know that what you are saying is the way in fact the 3 cannon types are designed to work? Is everyone supposed to simply KNOW what the hell you do? By the way you mentioned only two of the three cannons I asked about. So where do single cannons fit into your perfect analysis of what everyone in this game should already know? You responded to my post assuming I should've learned what you learned about cannons the same way you learned it or somehow should miraculously know exactly how they work like maybe you do because your so damn smart. But you're not smart. You're just an ass for assuming too much.

Let no other player discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Though you may walk alone through looming shadows of doubt cast upon you by your enemies. Forge your heart with iron casting its shape out of only your pure will to push forward. You will not be denied eventually.

Last edited by tripwire690; 08-12-2012 at 05:30 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 956
# 5
08-12-2012, 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwire690 View Post
So where do single cannons fit into your perfect analysis of what everyone in this game should already know?
To be fair, your tone in the opening post was also sort of rude as well. Calling on a dev in all caps to answer a question you thought could only be answered by a dev instead of an experienced player, then acting on the assumption that:

A. Cannons are only for escorts
B. Only DPS is important (some would argue this, but that's neither here nor there)
C. That because escort players favor dual heavies that the other cannons are broken/useless/unnecessary

Tone is hard to convey over the internet, so the best way to do things if you don't want to sound like a total ass is to be polite. A rude question is more likely to get a rude response.

And to answer your question, only I believe the only cannons cruisers can mount are single cannons. Therefore, single cannons are for cruisers who want to mount cannons for whatever reason.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,314
# 6
08-12-2012, 06:27 PM
To address how to learn thongs in STO.
STO explains very little so most players learn from asking or the old fashion way, by doing and experimentation.
Both have the ability to teach well but asking is the best method given the number of experienced players in STO.
He who laughs last thinks slowest.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,047
# 7
08-12-2012, 06:58 PM
Here's a question. I know that the duals Proc better than the DHCs, but in the case of energy types which would they be most benificial? I'm currently using the DHC's with plasma on my defiant, but i was wondering if i shouldn't switch to dual just to cause more straight to ull damgae. Do the plasma fires still stack? or is it once the ship is on fire, there's only on instance of plasma fire on it?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,935
# 8
08-12-2012, 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
That was actually a sorta stupid question. Oh maybe it was you trying to be a smart ass that comes off so stupid. But whatever. Dual cannons and dual heavy cannons have the same DPS. You likely noticed this. Maybe you didn't. So the weapons with the narrow arc are more powerful than the ones with the wide arc.

Dual cannons gain greater benefit from abilities that happen on a per hit basis.

Dual heavy cannons gain greater benefit from abilities that work off of base damage or ROF.

So ships without the tac stations to buff cannons do better with standard duals.

Like a KDF cruiser.

Hey why aren't there any single heavy cannons? Now there's a question for you.
duel cannons better on kdf cruisers? i am afraid not. kdf cruisers, wile maneuverable, don't have even close to an escort's turn rate. DHC do their entire cycle worth of damage in about a second and a half with 2 seconds of down time. duel cannons need an entire 4 seconds on a target do deliver all the damage they can do in a cycle. for a ship with inferior maneuverability, i'll take the cannons that deliver their damage in the shortest window every time.

i agree on single cannon though, they should be fireing heavy shots, wile turrets fire light shots. 3 shots per cycle with the same dps as current sounds about right. u turret can be a cut in half DC, and a single cannon can be a cut in half DHC.

duel cannons ether need higher dps then DHCs or a higher fireing rate to break even
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 956
# 9
08-12-2012, 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
duel cannons better on kdf cruisers? i am afraid not. kdf cruisers, wile maneuverable, don't have even close to an escort's turn rate. DHC do their entire cycle worth of damage in about a second and a half with 2 seconds of down time. duel cannons need an entire 4 seconds on a target do deliver all the damage they can do in a cycle. for a ship with inferior maneuverability, i'll take the cannons that deliver their damage in the shortest window every time.

i agree on single cannon though, they should be fireing heavy shots, wile turrets fire light shots. 3 shots per cycle with the same dps as current sounds about right. u turret can be a cut in half DC, and a single cannon can be a cut in half DHC.

duel cannons ether need higher dps then DHCs or a higher fireing rate to break even
But that's the point of dual cannons having a larger arc! Slow-turning cruisers need maximum coverage to set up broadsides so they can fire while turning. Escorts turn on a dime and are expected to be facing the target at all times, hence the optimum 3-turret aft arrangement.

Sure, small-arc DHCs do more damage in a shorter period, but what about when you turn the cruiser and lose your arc? You'll spend more time getting facing forward again, during which time your DHCs are NOT firing. And turrets have 360 coverage and as such have the lowest DPS of all, since they can keep firing constantly and maybe make up for the burst in sustained damage. And besides, cruisers can't mount DHCs anyway, so it's a moot point.

Quote:
Here's a question. I know that the duals Proc better than the DHCs, but in the case of energy types which would they be most benificial?
High-count weapons like the DC are most effective with energy types that stack and proc on a per-hit basis, like Tetryons, Phasers, and Polarons. Phaser procs may be less effective these days since there is now an enforced time-out when a Phaser causes a subsystem disable (after a phaser proc the target is shielded from further procs for 10 seconds or something). Tetryon weapons have chance-to-drain on per shot, and polarons too, so the more shots they fire, the higher the chance to proc.

I don't know if Plasma fires stack (I don't believe they do), and Disruptors apply a flat debuff and don't stack, so they're not ideal with high-count weapons. Antiprotons are preferable as DHCs since their crit bonus stacks with the DHC crit bonus, making for super spike damage when they proc.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,935
# 10
08-12-2012, 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by unangbangkay View Post
But that's the point of dual cannons having a larger arc!
lemmy stop you right there. they dont have a larger arc, they have the same arc DHCs have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unangbangkay View Post
High-count weapons like the DC are most effective with energy types that stack and proc on a per-hit basis, like Tetryons, Phasers, and Polarons. Phaser procs may be less effective these days since there is now an enforced time-out when a Phaser causes a subsystem disable (after a phaser proc the target is shielded from further procs for 10 seconds or something). Tetryon weapons have chance-to-drain on per shot, and polarons too, so the more shots they fire, the higher the chance to proc.

I don't know if Plasma fires stack (I don't believe they do), and Disruptors apply a flat debuff and don't stack, so they're not ideal with high-count weapons. Antiprotons are preferable as DHCs since their crit bonus stacks with the DHC crit bonus, making for super spike damage when they proc.
1. theres a loop hole in the phaser proc fix. it your already proced, you can be proced again, and until the first proc wares off. so when you need it most, it doesnt help

2. procs arent per hit. they only have a chance to go off per cycle, not per shot. DHCs have the longest cycle so they are a t a slight disadvantage for proc rate, but its not becase they only fire 2 shots per cycle.

3 plasma energy weapon procs stack. but the damage they cause is extreamly small, and you cant effectively use the energy type at and game because of the set shields so it almost doesn't even mater.
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
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