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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 961
# 11
08-12-2012, 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
lemmy stop you right there. they dont have a larger arc, they have the same arc DHCs have.
Whoops, you're right. I was thinking of single cannons at the time
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,296
# 12
08-12-2012, 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by unangbangkay View Post
Whoops, you're right. I was thinking of single cannons at the time
single cannons are only really a good fit on an excelsior or galor, but on a vorcha with 2 turn consoles you might as well use duel, its plenty viable
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 961
# 13
08-12-2012, 11:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
single cannons are only really a good fit on an excelsior or galor, but on a vorcha with 2 turn consoles you might as well use duel, its plenty viable
That's why I mentioned cruisers in my comment.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
# 14
08-13-2012, 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
To address how to learn thongs in STO.
STO explains very little so most players learn from asking or the old fashion way, by doing and experimentation.
Both have the ability to teach well but asking is the best method given the number of experienced players in STO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unangbangkay View Post
To be fair, your tone in the opening post was also sort of rude as well. Calling on a dev in all caps to answer a question you thought could only be answered by a dev instead of an experienced player, then acting on the assumption that:

A. Cannons are only for escorts
B. Only DPS is important (some would argue this, but that's neither here nor there)
C. That because escort players favor dual heavies that the other cannons are broken/useless/unnecessary

Tone is hard to convey over the internet, so the best way to do things if you don't want to sound like a total ass is to be polite. A rude question is more likely to get a rude response.

And to answer your question, only I believe the only cannons cruisers can mount are single cannons. Therefore, single cannons are for cruisers who want to mount cannons for whatever reason.

Rude Tone? No. It's not rude. But I could be. "Its a stupid question." Thats rude and the tone is plenty apparent. Cap's lock? I love how everyone imagines someone must be screaming or talking loud for some strange reason when caps are enabled. Some people use caps to emphasize as opposed to make their words emotional which I believe is what punctuation is actually intended to do. In any case to be honest I could be down right demanding. This information is not in the game. Its not on the sto wiki. And on top of that every escort and klingon cruiser comes equipped with DUAL CANNONS. So to clarify I was not being rude to Mr. Al Rivera. And if each ship has a logical choice for running a particular type of cannon then I can ask yet ANOTHER QUESTION. Why did Cryptic and/or Al Rivera give EVERY ESCORT and Klingon Cruiser and Bop DUAL CANNONS stock layout as opposed to giving some single cannons or Dual heavies as is being suggested is the proper cannon for this versus that ship?

Let no other player discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Though you may walk alone through looming shadows of doubt cast upon you by your enemies. Forge your heart with iron casting its shape out of only your pure will to push forward. You will not be denied eventually.

Last edited by tripwire690; 08-13-2012 at 01:56 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 15
08-13-2012, 02:12 AM
Speaking about cannons. Why not let every ship use every cannon type ? After all, the turn rate pretty much dictates which one you will use. It's just artificial perk for escorts to use dual cannons, but it really is not needed. It would hardly break the game, while allowing some nice combos for people that can squize the maximum even from low turning ships.

But to the subject. I would tone down dual cannons dps a little and increase their arc to something between dual banks and heady dual cannons.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,540
# 16
08-13-2012, 02:25 AM
The arguments about DHC vs DC has gone back and forth forever in this game.

DC's proc more crits so they do more damage over time.
DHC's proc bigger crits so they do more burst damage.

While I can't Guarantee the accuracy of either statement, in my experience DHC's do provide better DPS over DC's. Most of my Escorts carry 1 DC and 2 DHC with a Torpedo. Not the best combination out there, but I enjoy it and it works well enough for me.

Not to mention Torpedoes are hilarious vs a RSP.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 961
# 17
08-13-2012, 02:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwire690 View Post
Cap's lock? I love how everyone imagines someone must be screaming or talking loud for some strange reason when caps are enabled. Some people use caps to emphasize as opposed to make their words emotional which I believe is what punctuation is actually intended to do.
"HEY AL RIVERA:"

This is basically the text version of speaking loudly. If you were reading this line off a script to address Al Rivera, you would be raising your voice, regardless of what you think punctuation is for (not that you actually used it in your header to convey tone).

And yes, shouting on the internet is in fact rude, just as shouting in public is rude.

Quote:
Why did Cryptic and/or Al Rivera give EVERY ESCORT and Klingon Cruiser and Bop DUAL CANNONS stock layout as opposed to giving some single cannons or Dual heavies as is being suggested is the proper cannon for this versus that ship?
I'm going to be cynical here and state that Cryptic gives its escorts a mix of weapons (if I remember correctly my Defiant came with a Dual Beam Bank on it as well) because in their ideal conception of the game any mix is preferable and equally effective.

This of course is not the case, and they could not be bothered to "re-represent" the ideal escort layout as discovered by players.

That said, other exotic builds have certainly been tried and have thrived. Just as STO is more than its forum min-maxers say it is, so can your build.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
# 18
08-13-2012, 04:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by unangbangkay View Post
"HEY AL RIVERA:"

This is basically the text version of speaking loudly. If you were reading this line off a script to address Al Rivera, you would be raising your voice, regardless of what you think punctuation is for (not that you actually used it in your header to convey tone).

And yes, shouting on the internet is in fact rude, just as shouting in public is rude.



I'm going to be cynical here and state that Cryptic gives its escorts a mix of weapons (if I remember correctly my Defiant came with a Dual Beam Bank on it as well) because in their ideal conception of the game any mix is preferable and equally effective.

This of course is not the case, and they could not be bothered to "re-represent" the ideal escort layout as discovered by players.

That said, other exotic builds have certainly been tried and have thrived. Just as STO is more than its forum min-maxers say it is, so can your build.

Ahhh. so caps lock is socially accepted as screaming is it? Hmmm. MY APOLOGIES THEN. You still haven't explained single cannons to me. And your defiant did NOT come with a dual beam bank. It came with a single beam array. Again this post was meant to get a clarification from a Al Rivera. Your opinion is irrelevant. About the tone of my post and the person it was directed to. But this IS a public forum. I've read your reply to my post and its noted. If caps lock is socially accepted as screaming then I simply won't use it unless I'm intending to be taken as screaming or raising my voice. The point is this whole idea of "mixed preference" is obviously not very mixed at all when 90% of all escort pilots run dual heavy cannons. And if you think your "mixed" build can hold up to one of us "min-maxers" then ask for me in organizedpvp in game and we can test how well your exotic build thrives against a a min-maxed one.

Let no other player discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Though you may walk alone through looming shadows of doubt cast upon you by your enemies. Forge your heart with iron casting its shape out of only your pure will to push forward. You will not be denied eventually.

Last edited by tripwire690; 08-13-2012 at 04:55 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 961
# 19
08-13-2012, 04:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwire690 View Post
And if you think your "mixed" build can hold up to one of us "min-maxers" then ask for me in organizedpvp in game and we can test how well your exotic build thrives against a a min-maxed one.
Oh no, my build isn't mixed at all. Like 90% of escorts, I run DHCs and Turrets. I'm just saying that the default loadout is more an expression of wishful thinking on the part of Cryptic rather than acknowledging what players have found out really works best (some exotic builds aside). I totally agree with you that the default setups are weird (and potentially misleading to new players who might use the loadout as a guideline) and probably need tuning, but in practice, there's no reason to use standard issue gear...ever. It's always common, always low-end, and sells for zero.

Quote:
You still haven't explained single cannons to me.
Sorry, I made my comment about single cannons in a different thread. Single cannons are for cruiser captains who want to use cannons that aren't running Klink battle cruisers. Since single cannons have a 180 fire arc (and since cruisers can't mount DCs/DHCs), they're better suited to a cruiser's broadside bias. I can't remember if single cannons can be rear-mounted, but if they can, they can be a higher-ROF, higher-DPS alternative to turrets on a cruiser.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 346
# 20
08-13-2012, 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight0001 View Post
The arguments about DHC vs DC has gone back and forth forever in this game.

DC's proc more crits so they do more damage over time.
DHC's proc bigger crits so they do more burst damage.

While I can't Guarantee the accuracy of either statement, in my experience DHC's do provide better DPS over DC's. Most of my Escorts carry 1 DC and 2 DHC with a Torpedo. Not the best combination out there, but I enjoy it and it works well enough for me.

Not to mention Torpedoes are hilarious vs a RSP.
I can guarantee the inaccuracy of the former statement and the irrelevance of the latter.
Crits aren't a good argument for DCs, lower Power Drain and [Borg] procs are.
But anyway, I'd never fault anyone for using DCs over DHCs or vice-versa. Or even a combination of both; the case isn't clear enough to mathematically compare them (i.e. Power Drain mechanics apparently a aren't that straightforward or something).



That being said, I do find it hard to justify single Cannons on any Ship:

- Escorts? Nah, DCs/DHCs+Turrets, eventual Torps, Mines, DBB or even a rear Array; some even run pure Beamscorts. I wouldn't, but some do.
- SVs? Nah, some favour BeamSVs, some (like myself) favour DBBs/Torps+Turrets/Mines, in neither case would single Cannons fit.
- Carriers? Nah. They don't reallt have the Turn rate to make Cannons work.
- Cruisers? Beams and Torps are standard, Mines not uncommon.
Still, that's where you see them most often, on front-focused Cruisers that don't quite have the turn rate to make DBBs (or DCs/DHCs when applicable) work.

All in all, single Cannons are very niche, a middleground between Arrays and DBBs that is very rarely justifiable: 180 isn't good enough for Broadsiding but is usually overkill when front-firing.
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