Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,052
# 61
08-15-2012, 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
As much as I appreciate your fascination with a more interesting personality than yourself, would you please focus your attention in the discussion not on people, but on arguments.

From my tests with an Advanced Escort, I can say: Transphasics are good in theory, but only in an environment where nobody expects them. As soon as the target has at least 1 Monotanium console (or two to three Neutronium), the effectively remaining something like 30% of original dps are just healed away by a combination of Hazard Emitters, the Borg proc and native crew repair. Even if it is buffed to close to 5000 dpv (and with projectile weapons doffs, that almost equals dps) with a combination of transphasic compressors, partial KHG and partial Breen set, that means just 1500 dps to hull. You'll need more than 20 seconds for an unbuffed escort hull to defeat it without it applying any heals... and which hull is unbuffed, anyway. 20 seconds, during which the targetted escort might just toast your ship with DHC/turret fire, taking down your shields and your hull.

And what's more, that damage you do with transphasics is usually from you alone... your team mates will not really benefit from the damage you do, as they still have to take down the target's shields to do damage, too. Unless they also are transphasics torpedo ships, at which point you will see people switching to even more hull heals and armor quite quickly.
i'm going to type slowly, so pay attention. there are a bajillion things wrong with just about everything you think and do in this game, as many of us have tried to tell you many times before. i shall address this post only right now, and i shall list them in order of their appearance in your post.

1: mav has all the right and the reasoning to address you, the person in his post. this is a public forum, and we are all contributing members.

2: torps on escorts are always questionable, unless you are of the top players in the game at timing them to hit hull between your target's tac teams. hell, even mav his self has come around to slightly agree with this.

3: transphasics are only good in theory, rarely in practice, even with 100% build dedication do they perform as well as plasma torps, and thats just sad.

4: if you run a monotanium, you are not paying attention. with the amount of shield resists going around the +18 from neutronium is more than enough for 1 ship.l

5: if you are running 2/3 neutroniums, you have not done the math on how the defensive stats stack, and are most likely doing a lot of other stuff wrong. even great engineers in cruisers rarely run more than 1.

6: what the f is buffed dpv? damage per volley? dumbass.

7: you will never get 20 seconds straight on an escort full attack facings and buffs. you got this one as close as you possibly could tho, but i had to read it 5 times to be sure. english is not your first language is it?

8: okay, you may be coming around here......escorts are the ships that do the damage. good job sophie.

have fun kill bad guys
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 871
# 62
08-15-2012, 04:46 PM
Now children, let's play nice. It is just a video game afterall. Let's try to keep the insults and attitude out of this thread and stick to helping me learn how to PvP

So in that regard, I'd like to discuss why my choice of [DMG]x2 modifier is a bad one. Essentially, I chose this modifier because of the low Tetryon base damage. The bonus damage that criticals give will be less on Tetryons than any other weapon and when you start multiplying a smaller number by the same percentage as a larger base number, the difference in damage output of critical hits between Tetryon weapons and other weapons becomes exponential. In this respect, Tetryons would be the worst weapon type to increase anything that has to do with critical chance or critical damage.

Admittedly, I didn't crunch the numbers, so I very well could be wrong about choosing [DMG]x2. By choosing it, I figured I would increase my overall continuous damage output to be more equal to other weapon types, while letting my torpedoes do most of the critical spike damage. I also hoped that in the small window between when my enemy's shields are down and my torpedoes hit, I would be able to do the highest amount of continuous hull damage rather than relying on low-percentage criticals to hit. This should effectively soften up the target slightly more, which will give torpedoes a better chance to kill.

Now, I could possibly afford to switch weapon modifier types (although not console types), but I want to be absolutely convinced that my reasoning is flawed and that a better modifier would increase my damage. Truthfully though, one of the reasons I chose [DMG]x2 over [ACC]x2 was due to the price difference. The [ACC]x2 were nearly twice as expensive so it would probably take all of my resources to switch to those.

Another thing to consider is that overall Phased Tetryon weapons have 1 less modifier than regular energy types. Does this make the choice of modifiers less important and thus [ACC]x2 less worthwhile/valuable than using a weapon with [ACC]x3?

Last edited by skurf; 08-15-2012 at 04:57 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,052
# 63
08-15-2012, 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skurf View Post
Now children, let's play nice. It is just a video game afterall. Let's try to keep the insults and attitude out of this thread and stick to helping me learn how to PvP

So in that regard, I'd like to discuss why my choice of [DMG]x2 modifier is a bad one. Essentially, I chose this modifier because of the low Tetryon base damage. The bonus damage that criticals give will be less on Tetryons than any other weapon and when you start multiplying a smaller number by the same percentage as a larger base number, the difference in damage output of critical hits between Tetryon weapons and other weapons becomes exponential. In this aspect, Tetryons would be the worst weapon type to increase anything that has to do with critical chance or critical damage.

Admittedly, I didn't crunch the numbers, so I very well could be wrong about choosing [DMG]x2. By choosing it, I figured I would increase my overall continuous damage output to be more equal to other weapon types, while letting my torpedoes do most of the critical spike damage. I also hoped that in the small window between when my enemy's shields are down and my torpedoes hit, I would be able to do the highest amount of continuous damage rather than relying on low-percentage criticals to hit. This should effectively soften up the target slightly more, which will give torpedoes a better chance to kill.

Now, I could possibly afford to switch weapon modifier types (although not console types), but I want to be absolutely convinced that my reasoning is flawed and that a better modifier would increase my damage. Truthfully though, one of the reasons I chose [DMG]x2 over [ACC]x2 was due to the price difference. The [ACC]x2 were nearly twice as expensive so it would probably take all of my resources to switch to those.

Another thing to consider is that overall Phased Tetryon weapons have 1 less modifier than regular energy types. Does this make the choice of modifiers less important and thus [ACC]x2 less worthwhile/valuable than using a weapon with [ACC]x3?
tetryon weapons do the same base damage as all the other weapon types. where have you experienced otherwise?

and no, acc is always the best mod for any weapon, unless you are a tac then crtD and crtH become viable depending on your piloting style and loadout. dmg, is ALWAYS the least beneficial mod.

also, with everyone and their gammie numnums running 2 tac teams, landing torps on hull is quite possibly one of the hardest things to do in the game right now.

and yes, acc mod weapons are the highest priced. they are better. have you ever been shopping before? for anything? if you can't tell that a benz is a far better engineered car than a chevy based on price tag alone....well....

and yes, the trade off on the 1 modifier for the phased tets is a close call. but if i can buff my tet damage through consoles and still get a random phaser proc....well....again....

and please, stop putting so much effort into this thought process. if you have maco or omega gear you could have blue markX weapons and be just fine.

the piloting is the cake sir, most of the rest..... just icing.

have fun kill bad guys
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 871
# 64
08-15-2012, 05:01 PM
...or keep the attitude. That's cool too. Sorry, I didn't realize I was thinking too hard. I'll just take you at your word without wanting any reasoning whatsoever and take your completely out-of-context car metaphor as the hard truth for all things in life.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,052
# 65
08-15-2012, 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skurf View Post
...or keep the attitude. That's cool too. Sorry, I didn't realize I was thinking too hard. I'll just take you at your word without wanting any reasoning whatsoever and take your completely out-of-context car metaphor as the hard truth for all things in life.
whats the deal with you people?

what attitude? some of you have the thinnest skin. you have tons of great advice in this thread to read already. and pages upon pages of other topics that are quite extensive on this topic itself alone.

this guy, sophie, gives horrible advice. some of us have taken upon ourselves to correct this behavior when we can. sorry ive offended you somehow.

i responded to your post on the first day. go back and read it.

and no, you may not be thinking too hard. but on the wrong side of the coin, maybe. like i said, i run on mkX blue weapons on a few toons, and with crappy mods...and do perfectly fine because i focus on piloting. there is no gear "i win" button or best setup, it really depends on you, the player.

and the car metaphor was actually right on point. things that are more expensive are most of the time worth the money. you said it yourself, you looked, and they are much more expensive than the other weapons. how was this at all out of context?

okay, how bout this one: you are at the ford dealer.......and you test drive the fiesta, then the mustang........
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 871
# 66
08-15-2012, 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
whats the deal with you people?

what attitude? some of you have the thinnest skin. you have tons of great advice in this thread to read already. and pages upon pages of other topics that are quite extensive on this topic itself alone.

this guy, sophie, gives horrible advice. some of us have taken upon ourselves to correct this behavior when we can. sorry ive offended you somehow.

i responded to your post on the first day. go back and read it.

and no, you may not be thinking too hard. but on the wrong side of the coin, maybe. like i said, i run on mkX blue weapons on a few toons, and with crappy mods...and do perfectly fine because i focus on piloting. there is no gear "i win" button or best setup, it really depends on you, the player.

and the car metaphor was actually right on point. things that are more expensive are most of the time worth the money. you said it yourself, you looked, and they are much more expensive than the other weapons. how was this at all out of context?

okay, how bout this one: you are at the ford dealer.......and you test drive the fiesta, then the mustang........
I find it hard to believe that gear is as unimportant as you make it out to be. Even though I'm new to PvP I'd be willing to bet I'd score higher in a PvP match and could take you out in a 1v1 against one of your blue mkX toons. Hit me up on STO and we can test it out - Entarra Adu@DevolvedOne. Although, since you know my gear, you'd probably just get all Tetryon resist consoles and lol all day :x

As for your analogy, it is out of context because we are dealing with a market that can be easily manipulated by someone or someones that have enough EC. As such, prices may not reflect the true relative value of an item. Are [ACC]x3 weapons really worth twice as much or are people buying them when they become available at lower prices and reposting them at higher prices (or just holding on to them) in order to inflate their value? It's also based on the assumption that the random number generator Cryptic created works perfectly and there are always the same number of each type of item dropping. Then there's the fact that certain types of weapons can be crafted and thus the supply of them will be higher than something that you can't craft.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 67
08-15-2012, 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
To be fair mav... the one exception to the 3 dhc or better rule... is sort of what he was planning to do with the KHG bonus. For the amount of extra dmg you get from the KGH. (its equal to 3 torp dmg units) its like his bug would have a 8 tac console setup.

The thing is if you are going to bother with torps AT ALL imo you HAVE to commit to them. No silly one launcher in front eating your dps... go all in and run 2 so you can keep the torp rapid fire going... I did this with a goomba for a good while and honestly my dmg was much higher, and more important my KILLS where much higher then they where in a full cannon setup....
On my feds 2 torps works on most ships but I did hate it on my bug... it felt much weaker then just going cannons... that KHG set is the torpedo holy grail... if I ever get a second bug for my klink or the KHG set ever gets some cross faction love I will be running 2 DHC on that ship.
This is a little off-topic and I don't want to detract from the OP's questions, but have you ever tried two torps on a BO BoP? I'm having a little more success with the whole 2 x DHC, 1 x Quantum and 1 x DBB setup, but the DHCs are mostly there for appearances/knocking off shield slivers/chasing stragglers. I'd go two torps (I run two-piece KHG and take Torp Spread III) and shell out for the proper DOffs if I thought it'd be worth it.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 68
08-15-2012, 05:55 PM
To Skurf:

You're really overthinking the mods/energy types badly. Pick an energy type (go with your favorite color if you like), try for at least one [Acc] if you can and roll with it. It's just not that big of a deal in the end, and especially not at the point where you're asking us for basic build help.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 69
08-15-2012, 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
As much as I appreciate your fascination with a more interesting personality than yourself, would you please focus your attention in the discussion not on people, but on arguments.

From my tests with an Advanced Escort, I can say: Transphasics are good in theory, but only in an environment where nobody expects them. As soon as the target has at least 1 Monotanium console (or two to three Neutronium), the effectively remaining something like 30% of original dps are just healed away by a combination of Hazard Emitters, the Borg proc and native crew repair. Even if it is buffed to close to 5000 dpv (and with projectile weapons doffs, that almost equals dps) with a combination of transphasic compressors, partial KHG and partial Breen set, that means just 1500 dps to hull. You'll need more than 20 seconds for an unbuffed escort hull to defeat it without it applying any heals... and which hull is unbuffed, anyway. 20 seconds, during which the targetted escort might just toast your ship with DHC/turret fire, taking down your shields and your hull.

And what's more, that damage you do with transphasics is usually from you alone... your team mates will not really benefit from the damage you do, as they still have to take down the target's shields to do damage, too. Unless they also are transphasics torpedo ships, at which point you will see people switching to even more hull heals and armor quite quickly.
Adv. Escort is a bad boat for a bleedthrough/torp build
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,052
# 70
08-15-2012, 06:01 PM
okay man, good luck in the game.

@CaptainHorizon

maybe we'll see each other on the field someday.
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