Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 152
Hey all,

I was gearing up to start my own thread but they points I was going to make a mirror here so I'll chime in.

I own and run PublicEliteSTF and have seen the torrent of feedback (negative) also from the S7 changes.

I completely understand the DEVs reasoning on the new changes and mostly agree ( albeit relunctantly) and im not here to flame or bad mouth the devs and would appreciate if people didnt turn the thread into such. I'm hoping for devs thoughts on the matter presented.

My post's intention is to provide honest and REAL feedback on the effects of these new changes as I'm experiencing them and I'm sure and know (from PESTF) alot of others are too.

The way I look at it, yes people can still grind reasonable dilith on SB24 etc, and while less then the ole stf ( including drops) this is actually not the issue.

Grinding dilith on SB24 is a step BACKWARDS. STF's are end game content, and more importantly fun! I've always loved STF's, and love the new hive missions, a great challenge but hugely overshadowed by the feeling that I'm not to rewarded for my efforts. Once the novelty wears off, whats left?

if i was to break down my gaming habits in sto it might look a bit sad. All I did in S6 and before, was pvp it up for fun, STF's for fun tech and dilith and grind doffs for EC to buy nice stuffs.

Ok, so now.... hands up you caught me, i made ALOT of ec from doff grinding, i can accept adding more value (dilith) to doffs of higher quality, ill just have to find a new ec grind. fair enough.... not nice but hey life changes ill move on...

Ok hands up! you caught me I could grind ALOT of dilith on my 5 toons in a short space of time, Btran and Officer reports nerf.... ok understandable, we had a good run, life changes move on. I'll play other dailies to make up.

But the STF thing, man it feels like you tore the heart out of them. In S7 i only need to do one elite to run the projects i need, no other reason to run one on that toon for nearly 2 days. I have all my gear, why collect processors for dilith when i can grind sb24 without enjoyment.

Having read the devs reasoning behind the dilith changes, while i might not agree, they've obviously made up their minds on the matter, dilith nerf is here to stay. ok great life changes i can accept this and move on.

BUT! why completely nerf STF's? They take about the same time as SB24 etc, so if they had a similiar 1400k or 980 dilith value, I'm not earning more dilith for the same time then the devs intended. Or if you're determined to include the borg processor turn in element, 5 for 1k dilith as in game, make stfs 750 dilith off the bat, 750k+borg processor @ 250 = 1k dilith. The omega marks turn in at tier 5, 50 for 500 dilith, could still remain even, im sure it will be gated anyways so guys with 100's k's of omega marks cant exploit it.

My main arguement is why shift dilith and equipment drops to SB24 etc, people dont like these events.... they do like STF's for better or for worse, they are a challenge and fun! For those that find STF's to hard ( as was a reasoning for shifting the dilith grind to SB24) they could still do these events, guys grinding stf's wont get ahead of them since they take the same amount of time, ie on average 3 fleet events = 3 stf's comparably. The only difference being STF's ARE FUN, even guys that moan about it, will come back, secretly because they love them. But without rewards, this love has certainly waned.

If they reward the same amount (as intended) as SB24, people arent grind more dilith then you intend( the purpose of S7), but the difference is, they can still ENJOY THEIR USER EXPERIENCE. the great aspects of STF's was the feeling that you EARNED your dilith or reward bag.

STF's have no become an empty vapid experience, no excitement upon finishing at what you might have got in a loot bag, or the instant gratification of knowing well I earned dilith or at least some kind of reward junk or otherwise. No more asking guys "hey get anything nice?" even if you didnt get anything yourself you gave grats if someone did and felt glad at least someone benefited. You don't get these elements in SB24 etc, as everyone is in and out. STF's where a social experience as much as a grind, hence we have STF channels for guys finding games and feel like a proper team doing so. working for the common good.

Ultimately my point is, their is no reason you can't still maintain your goals of S7 ( a dilith nerf) I even respect this as the game is a business. But on the other hand and I'm sure you already know or at least should know as designers you have to be aware of the USER EXPERIENCE.

STF's feel empty cause of little instantly tangible rewards. SB24's grind feels empty cause its too easy and semi selfish, you dont care about anybody else you're flying with, in fact you just want 1st place for the extra dilith. Getting a processor popping up in your inventory after an STF is not a reward, its like you got you're semi worthless item until you unlock the store, (if you havent got gear already, otherwise its completely useless bar 250 dilith big woo!) now get out.

OH and knock effect, PVP is even more borked!! WHY? cause guys just be rolling in to suicide and farm dilith... great, no challenge there = no fun! I dont even do pvp for dilith i do it for the FUN AND ENJOYMENT and now what I thought was the last bastion of FUN in the game is also feeling the effect of S7.

SOLUTION: GIVE STF'S BACK THEIR DILITH WORTH (adjusted for s7) AND EQUIPMENT DROPS LIKE SB24.

Make STF's the RICH worthwhile content they used to be.

HERE ENDTH THE LESSON

Last edited by wildchild8; 11-24-2012 at 04:15 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 37
# 2
11-14-2012, 07:22 AM
WALL OF TEXT!

But on a serious note pretty much everything you say is true, whether for you and others or whether just general truisms for the game.

The problem everyone seems to be overlooking is profit. It conquers all, it rules all. S7's STF changes have come about because players who play for free had equal chances from PUG STF's as a paying player. That would not stand at Cryptic so they've changed it. Now you need to open your wallet to have a good enough ship to gain those VR drops from dreadful, boring, non-server-intensive content.

Cryptic has remodeled to pure profit over gameplay/enjoyment. This change is here to stay. It's unfortunate but not he fault of the developers, just the boardroom. Forums will not change this, as board members neither play nor read forums nor care what players think
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 3
11-14-2012, 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoustar View Post
The problem everyone seems to be overlooking is profit. It conquers all, it rules all. S7's STF changes have come about because players who play for free had equal chances from PUG STF's as a paying player.
That's nonsense.

The fleet actions are easier and faster dilithium than STFs, you can run Elite STFs in old school "free" RA ships much less content like the Fleet Actions.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,005
# 4
11-14-2012, 07:38 AM
i onetime maxed my dilithium cap with a single ISE run...2 proto salvage...1 proto shield...1 rare salvage and the 1100 i get anyway.
i mean that was a onetimer, sure, but i think thats why they removed it. getting more than 8k dilithium in a single run (15 min and even less) was not working as intended. i'm not happy with it now, but it surely is less luck based, which i hated.
they may need to improve stf gear now in my opinion to ultra rare aswell, otherwise there is no reason to play stfs to get gear anymore.

anyway, maybe an elite version of fleet actions that rewards mk XII gear would have been nicer.
Go pro or go home

Last edited by baudl; 11-14-2012 at 07:44 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 152
# 5
11-14-2012, 07:39 AM
yeh sorry about wall of text but I'd a lot to say... lol

Regards the profit line... shifting diltih grind back to stf's does not distract from this. running SB24 will still allow a player to earn dilith the same as an stf did before hand ( minus proto/tech drops of course ) for the same amount of time 10-15mins per run. Even the numbers i mentioned adjust stfs to include the possible dilith from processors or marks.

The main difference being.... STF's provide much better user experience and enjoyment then a SB24 game etc, since STF's have a need to work together with your fellow man/woman/thing and create more of a sense of accomplishment then simply blowing up ship after ship in SB24.

STF's take a little more thought, and despite getting one shotted or ISO'd to dust, you felt like you EARNED your rewards, and could take pride in the fact you AND your team mates did well.

So the profit arguement is not my issue or concern, the changes I propose will still maintain the new profit line aspirations or the dev/board whoever, BUT will at least provide a better USER EXPERIENCE to people who play the game, therefore making them happy bunnies and more inclined to part with the cash when something good comes along the vesta or next lockbox ship. Having nice experiences to use this fancah new stuff on.

I commend the devs on the new content to an extent, like i said i love the new stf, the new romulan space stuff is semi enjoyable, i dont do grounds alot but from what i hear they are nice for those that enjoy grounds.

But STF's are still or were the main bastion of fun for alot of people because of the elements i mentioned.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 348
# 6
11-14-2012, 07:46 AM
i agree with op the loss of STF dilith was indeed a wow moment and agree it should be back and who know maybe it will be if ya read the blog dan made it said they would add dilith where needed to help bolster the dilith market so give it a month or two and let them crunch numbers they will find out that STF's are a good source for dilith.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 605
# 7
11-14-2012, 07:59 AM
I ran a couple of the fleet actions last night and I have to say that they're not all that bad. Gorn Minefield needs work - none of the standard objectives actually show on the map, and the lack of respawn points can make it nigh impossible to rejoin the group when you die and have to respawn, but overall I found them rather fun to run once again.

There is a bit of a condition to this though - I found my cruiser's ability to survive damage that would have destroyed an escort and/or science ship to be very much useful in both of these missions despite dying a couple of times myself.

Last edited by canis36; 11-14-2012 at 08:02 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 37
# 8
11-14-2012, 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
That's nonsense.

The fleet actions are easier and faster dilithium than STFs, you can run Elite STFs in old school "free" RA ships much less content like the Fleet Actions.
Who mentioned dil? I was talking about general character wealth generated from STF's being removed (drops), thus forcing you to spend if you want that character wealth. My fault for not explaining more clearly *facepalm*

I can't make sense of the latter part of your statement... perhaps I'm reading it wrong :s
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 152
# 9
11-14-2012, 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neos472 View Post
i agree with op the loss of STF dilith was indeed a wow moment and agree it should be back and who know maybe it will be if ya read the blog dan made it said they would add dilith where needed to help bolster the dilith market so give it a month or two and let them crunch numbers they will find out that STF's are a good source for dilith.
I have the blog myself and I agree, hopefully they can see the error of there ways in this regard to stfs and readjust. I know myself and alot were hoping come tomorrow they might actually change it, kind of a testing the waters thing on tuesday, and from the torrent of threads on the issue moreso then anything else nerfed, i think the general feeling its the worst of the evils of S7.

I can freely admit that while I'm not fond of the other nerfed elements in the blog post I can at least understand the rationale, can see that yes guys farming dilith was waaaay to easy if done right and will now endevour to adapt to change, but I think this issue is definitely the hardest pill to swallow more so as we had a false sense of security that stf's were still going to be ok in S7, ( reupping the reward from 480-980 on tribble for example) but this aside, its messing with a hugely integral part of the end game experience by nerfing STF's, the hardest elite missions in the game which have always deserved such rewards.

Also SB24 etc will quickly become seriously boring even if you find it fun to be doing again, the novelty will soon wear off. At least with STF's the fact you rely on your team mates means that every STF is somewhat new, as you're never really gunna know whats going to happen. SB24 etc is straight up linear pew pew, and your out, big woo.

Anyways not to be a moaning micheal, but sort it out!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 152
# 10
11-24-2012, 04:12 PM
Having been away for a little while.... season 7 grind was getting to me.... I'm was pleased to find some of the new changes that have been implemented or updated since the launch of s7.

I was delighted to see dilith returned to STF's in particular, but from the most recent dev blog update I'm also very pleased to see the return of loot drops.

I again commend the devs on listening to the community. The readjustment of the rep system and the addition of dilith for completing rep projects is also a welcome addition as is being able to turn omega marks to dilith to before tier 5. Kudo's.

I think the changes already implemented and coming ( December I believe for some) will make good in roads into saving S7 and I'm glad to see the Dev's have been able to weather the storm of negative feedback ( some of you really should learn manners lol, be nice to the poor devs lol) and turn the frustrations of players into some positives.

While I'm sure there are still other issues players would like addressed (doff grinders etc) its nice to now players concerns once raised can be addressed and thought out.

I'll look forward to the private queues returning and any other refinements that may still be in the pipeline.

Sometimes its not easy being a dev but keep up the good work and tailoring the changes to players concerns and feedback, much appreciated!
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