Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 996
# 1 Ship mechanics revamp idea.
08-17-2012, 11:18 AM
In STO, it seems like the only effective builds are those that max DPS and possibly power drain (but power drain is more of PvP thing than it is a universal thing). So only Escorts and bold Science ships. Cruisers get left out in the dust.

Furthermore, due to how "hybrid" ships are built, most are just a standard class with a slightly different layout. Gain a little ability in X or Y, but its still a Z ship overall. This is due to the boff seating and the nature of boff powers themselves.

My proposal is this:
  • Boff Powers: All Boff powers should be level 1 to 3, and all should start at Ens. The commander power should be some super special power. Like say, Give Tac Boffs APA1 for their Cmdr power. Say give Sci Boffs SubNuc Beam 1. As for cruisers, since they don't really have an effective roll outside support, and the ability to tank in space is virtually non existent (A cruiser with Max Threat Control still can't out aggro a well built escort) make the Cmdr power a Massive Aggro boost coupled with a Moderate Hull and Shield DR buff.
  • Boff Seating: So now that I've established my idea of Boff powers, how about the seating: A T5 ship should have a Cmdr of its type (Tac for Escorts, Engy for Cruisers, and Sci for Sci Vessels). It should have 2 LtC Universals and a Lt Universal [Yes this screws over the BoP. I don't really know how to give it something unique to compensate for losing 3/4 of its coolness]. This would allow for a ship to maintain its role(s), but giving it breathing room for player customization (and would allow to fly the ship you think is cool, and not necessarily the ship with the best stats for the way you play). And would solve the problem of Hybrids not really being hybrids.

    Also, with the way the Boff seating and power progression works now, most builds are very cookie cutter. You don't see a whole lot of eject warp plasma or charged particle burst (or aceton beam, or photonic shockwave, or boarding party). Having few slots in a dept forces you to choose the self buff/cleanse powers. Having all powers available at Ens, and having 3 slots in the off dept (with a potential of 5) would allow for more build diversity without making huge sacrifices to survivability.

Last edited by atatassault; 08-17-2012 at 12:32 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 214
# 2
08-17-2012, 11:43 AM
what are you on about? cruisers do just fine in both PVP and PVE... in fact you see more of them than you do of either escorts or Tacs
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 996
# 3
08-17-2012, 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidacid29 View Post
what are you on about? cruisers do just fine in both PVP and PVE... in fact you see more of them than you do of either escorts or Tacs
Cruiser don't help complete optionals in 6 mins or faster. Cruisers can't tank (like they were billed to; because they can't generate enough aggro). Cruiser can't even harass the enemy very well. Their only effective role is support. And even then, at that rate, a well specced team of Escorts doesn't need support.

EDIT: You see a lot cruisers not because they are mechanically awesome, but because people like them from the shows. A large portion of the player base doesn't know how the mechanics of the game work all that well.

Last edited by atatassault; 08-17-2012 at 11:50 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 235
# 4
08-17-2012, 11:49 AM
Not to mention that power drain really is only effective on the Klink side via their pods, and one of the most effective control powers for science is a low-level ability called Tractor Beam. No one really flies a science ship for dps or highly-effective powers (which are virtually non-existent now)...they do it because they're fun to fly.

And yes, we all know escorts are the kings of PvE, but that's the fault of the devs making such craft able to tank high-end enemies.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
# 5
08-17-2012, 11:50 AM
Yup, like liquidacid29 said, cruisers are in bigger numbers than both escorts and science ships combined.

Kyle
Delta Fleet Command
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
# 6
08-17-2012, 11:51 AM
mehen, I fly a Sci. ship for DPS. The Atrox carrier is a Sci. ship and it is very good at DPS.

Kyle
Delta Fleet Command
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 214
# 7
08-17-2012, 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atatassault View Post
Cruiser don't help complete optionals in 6 mins or faster. Cruisers can't tank (like they were billed to; because they can't generate enough aggro). Cruiser can't even harass the enemy very well. Their only effective role is support. And even then, at that rate, a well specced team of Escorts doesn't need support.
I've never experienced any of those problems

I've completed every elite STF and all the optionals just as fast in groups of nothing BUT cruisers because the PVE content in this game is all easy and I have no problems crushing escorts and sci ships in PVP

sounds more like you don't know what your doing or playing with people/pugs who don't
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 996
# 8
08-17-2012, 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidacid29 View Post
I've never experienced any of those problems

I've completed every elite STF and all the optionals just as fast in groups of nothing BUT cruisers because the PVE content in this game is all easy and I have no problems crushing escorts and sci ships in PVP

sounds more like you don't know what your doing or playing with people/pugs who don't
Maybe in battlecruisers, but not a cruiser (or possibly an All Ody build with everybody using APB2 and Single Cannons; even then, an all escort team with all using APB3 and DC/DHC would still out DPS). Point for point; you can't complete a mission as fast as an all escort team. Time to complete a STO mission is Enemy Health/DPS.

Yes, Cruisers can be really effective as a support ship, but not everybody *wants* to play a support ship. And as mehan mentioned, Escorts have enough ability to tank as to not be wet paper (2x Tac Team and 2x EPtS + maybe Transfer Shield Strength and a Shield Battery is sufficient).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 214
# 9
08-17-2012, 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atatassault View Post
Maybe in battlecruisers, but not a cruiser (or possibly an All Ody build with everybody using APB2 and Single Cannons; even then, an all escort team with all using APB3 and DC/DHC would still out DPS). Point for point; you can't complete a mission as fast as an all escort team. Time to complete a STO mission is Enemy Health/DPS.

Yes, Cruisers can be really effective as a support ship, but not everybody *wants* to play a support ship. And as mehan mentioned, Escorts have enough ability to tank as to not be wet paper (2x Tac Team and 2x EPtS + maybe Transfer Shield Strength and a Shield Battery is sufficient).
you said cruisers were useless when most of the player base not only plays them but has no problems with any of the content in them... and in fact cruisers in this game get more attention and love from the devs than any other kind of ship... hell I have no problems running elite STFs in a group of standard t5 cruisers with mkX gear so long as no one is a tard and by the time you get rare XII the content is a joke no matter what ship type you are in

since the majority has no problems and even seems to prefer using cruisers there is no need to fix it since it isn't broken

the only thing that needs work right now are the sci ships... not the actual ships but the powers... hell now pretty much the only sci ships I see at engame anymore are carriers which I actually see more often than escorts

Last edited by liquidacid29; 08-17-2012 at 12:17 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 996
# 10
08-17-2012, 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidacid29 View Post
you said cruisers were useless when most of the player base not only plays them but has no problems with any of the content in them...
Never played a Fail Pug with 3 cruisers that can't keep one ship alive?
Quote:
and in fact cruisers in this game get more attention and love from the devs than any other kind of ship
That's because Cruisers are more Synonmous with Star Trek, and will generate more money from the F2P player base.

But I really have no interest in discussing the finer points of Sci vs Cruiser vs Escort. There would be no point to my thread if the actual idea I proposed receives no discussion (which reminds me, I thought of a few more points I need to add to my post).
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