Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 463
# 51
08-21-2012, 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottsey5g View Post
Engineering team has a cooldown. Sure you might heal the first volley but the damage does not stop while waiting for Engineering team to cycle again. What about the 2nd, though 15th volley while Eng team is on cooldown? I do over 2k to hull per shot, not per volly. I am not saying it cannot be healed but its not as easy as you make out.
Depending on who you are facing and what ship, engineering team is not the only hull heal out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pottsey5g View Post
Almost every single time I have tried that or someone tried it on me it has failed. All you have to do is hit tac team or balance shields and the HTY fails. Anyway BO rarely takes down shields unless it's a crit and sometimes not even then. I have seen it work against some of the smaller ships but not in a reliably constant manner.
Firing off BO2 or 3 and the HY3 quantum combo works very well, if A) You bring down the opponent's shields in the BO attack (Not hard for that to happen unless its a science ship, even then it can happen) and B) You don't keep firing like an idiot so tactical team can revive the loss of the shield quadrant. Not really hard to get around Tactical team if you're somewhat intelligent about what you're doing.

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,780
# 52
08-21-2012, 03:29 PM
dalolorn, I was actually talking to pottsey (I just looked at his name and forgot most of it again ).

pottsey, what ship are you running? Something is definitely not right if you can't get dps out of weapons like that with consoles that good (speaking of which, what weapons did you try? If it's turrets then there's your problem).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramming Speed at its finest.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 221
# 53
08-21-2012, 03:36 PM
2k per hit sounds good but a eng team 3 can heal a whole volley worth, and cruiser will carry 2 eng or eng + asif + HE1-2. Now if you can smash their crew more power to ya you will wear em down but a single console or aux to damp can negate crewloss and a cruiser will maintain a very high hull regen per min.

Sure you can trigger all my heal cooldowns but thats no diff then me getting alphad hard by anyone else except that most of your torpedo dmg is being negated by the shield even with the shield pen bonus.

Against escorts or sci with weaker hull heals i could see it being somewhat effective except that they will kill you fast and smart ones will avoide your torpedo arcs. People can make any build work but as to how well it works all the time is quite different.

Quantums are reliable dmg, so are photons. Transphasic do reliable dmg with shields up, on hull they are weak. And if your using BO i highly suggest a dual beam bank with x3 crit dmg mods. When it crits itll do major dmg, and even when it doesnt your doing pure energy dmg at for BO3 is about 12-14k directly to shield.

80% of most torpedo dmg is lost on shield impact, none is lost from energy based weapons. Thats what makes the combo so effective, even with 50% shield pen most ships can out run or out heal your dmg, if i saw a massive transphasic volley coming at me id just out run it, swing back and nail ya. Quantums are much harder to outrun.

If anything we have been trying to tell you and the devs that transphasic base dmg needs upped. That results in more dmg through shields and when they are down.

Also as an escort using cannons, beambanks, and torpedos you can use 3 offensive abilities at once + buffs. Tac buffs + Bo3, + HYT3, Beta 1, and CRF vs your transphasic torpedo volley isnt even a contest in potential dmg. Also if you manage your build right and gear you can reduce the effect of weapon energy drain to almost nothing.

And fully buffed my DHC crit for 8k or more basicly a torpedo hit but fire faster and do 100% dmg to shields.

Last edited by jtoney3448; 08-21-2012 at 03:41 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 591
# 54
08-21-2012, 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voporak View Post
dalolorn, I was actually talking to pottsey (I just looked at his name and forgot most of it again ).

pottsey, what ship are you running? Something is definitely not right if you can't get dps out of weapons like that with consoles that good (speaking of which, what weapons did you try? If it's turrets then there's your problem).
I tried all sorts, dual banks, beam arrays, cannons both 180" and 45" ach and still have most in my bank. Just never found a setup that worked for me. The best was beam banks fire at will with torpedo spread. 1 or 2 torpedoes with 2 or 3 beam banks and 2 turrets, 2 mines to keep energy drain low. Worked for PvE failed in PvP

Scatter Volley with x4 180? arc cannons or x3 and x1 180? torpedo with x2 turrets worked well for PvE but failed at PvP. (I like to always keep 2 mines in rear slots)

What do you want to do about meeting in game? I need you @name don?t I?
Ship right now is the Sov+ also used the Tac Oddy and Dkora.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 591
# 55
08-21-2012, 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtoney3448 View Post
2k per hit sounds good but a eng team 3 can heal a whole volley worth, and cruiser will carry 2 eng or eng + asif + HE1-2. Now if you can smash their crew more power to ya you will wear em down but a single console or aux to damp can negate crewloss and a cruiser will maintain a very high hull regen per min.

Sure you can trigger all my heal cooldowns but thats no diff then me getting alphad hard by anyone else except that most of your torpedo dmg is being negated by the shield even with the shield pen bonus.

Against escorts or sci with weaker hull heals i could see it being somewhat effective except that they will kill you fast and smart ones will avoide your torpedo arcs. People can make any build work but as to how well it works all the time is quite different.

Quantums are reliable dmg, so are photons. Transphasic do reliable dmg with shields up, on hull they are weak. And if your using BO i highly suggest a dual beam bank with x3 crit dmg mods. When it crits itll do major dmg, and even when it doesnt your doing pure energy dmg at for BO3 is about 12-14k directly to shield.

80% of most torpedo dmg is lost on shield impact, none is lost from energy based weapons. Thats what makes the combo so effective, even with 50% shield pen most ships can out run or out heal your dmg, if i saw a massive transphasic volley coming at me id just out run it, swing back and nail ya. Quantums are much harder to outrun.

If anything we have been trying to tell you and the devs that transphasic base dmg needs upped. That results in more dmg through shields and when they are down.

Also as an escort using cannons, beambanks, and torpedos you can use 3 offensive abilities at once + buffs. Tac buffs + Bo3, + HYT3, Beta 1, and CRF vs your transphasic torpedo volley isnt even a contest in potential dmg. Also if you manage your build right and gear you can reduce the effect of weapon energy drain to almost nothing.

And fully buffed my DHC crit for 8k or more basicly a torpedo hit but fire faster and do 100% dmg to shields.
No Escort has ever killed me fast 1v1 not even the top end Elite DPS ones. You have to remember I do not need weapon energy so I can dump all that energy into shields and Engines. That means a nice turn rate for a cruiser and high defence from engine power as well as nice speed. Add in 125 shield power which gives 35% resistance before BO skills and I can tank very well. I am not some a slow turn rate slow speed cruiser which is how I catch out most Escorts. Most ships are not going out run me easily.

Avoiding my torpedo arc is not that easy as I have no power in weapon energy so dump it all into engines/shields. I got pretty good at keeping even Escorts in my ach plus it?s deadly to be anywhere within 5k of me even outside of my ach. Killed many an Escort that thought it was a good idea to sit point-blank in my rear and unload dps at me. The only targets I have problems with are healer cruisers but they cannot kill me either so it?s a boring match. I run 125 shield and 113 engine power. Defence of 70% and turn rate of around I think it was 20 ish? with Dampeners, still over 12 without Dampeners. On top of all that I am still doing 500 to 600 damage to shields per shot or more if I us shield draining mines. EDIT: One fun time someone subspace jumped behind me and before I even spun the camera around they died due to 80% shield pen hits. EDIT end:

?if i saw a massive transphasic volley coming at me id just out run it, swing back and nail ya?
Your welcome to try and you might be surprised at just how agile I am. Want to meet up for a 1v1? One of my favourite tactics is to use full impulse come out point blank and unload torpedo spread twice at once and drop 20+mines. No way to outrun that. Full impulse has no impact on my damage so no need to come out at a distance and charge up energy. I am pretty sure after you meet me you will not say ?anything we have been trying to tell you and the devs that Transphasic base dmg needs upped? if you buff Transphasic any more they will be overpowered on torpdeo boats. Once I upgrade to fleet weapons and a Fleet Crusier I will be doing 3k hull damage per shot! Do we really need to buff that more? I can already get 3k per shot in an Orb Sci but I perfer crusiers. EDIT: its also worth saying those 2.2k and 3k shots are none crit shots on hull with shields up. As I am a torpedo boat I have projectile specialisation maxed out.

Last edited by pottsey5g; 08-21-2012 at 04:33 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,754
# 56
08-22-2012, 03:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voporak View Post
dalolorn, I was actually talking to pottsey (I just looked at his name and forgot most of it again ).

pottsey, what ship are you running? Something is definitely not right if you can't get dps out of weapons like that with consoles that good (speaking of which, what weapons did you try? If it's turrets then there's your problem).
Yes, I wasn't certain. Sorry.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, lovely, I can't even requote the Douglas Adams quote I used to have here I WANT IT BACK!!!!
Dalo Lorn
DaloLorn, StarCraft 2 Roleplayer and proud of it.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 591
# 57
08-22-2012, 06:18 AM
I should be in game for the next 7 ish hours if anyone wants to see my setup.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 114
# 58
08-23-2012, 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
I agree that transphasics should have a different special ability. Such as a shield healing preventer, for example.
yeah, they tried that. blew up in there faces, so right now the answer is no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
You're doing it wrong. Very sadly wrong. The only guy worse so far was Mr DPV guy. Granted BO3 in pve seems sorta lulz, but if you can't get the shields down on stf bosses in very short order there's some other issue. Or are you now going to say you didn't mean that? Sorta curious on that.

And if you in particular have some sort of set up where you can't get past a players shields in PVP well I guess that's YOUR problem. Stop saying everyone else shares your fail.

"laugh while your power levels are drained to zero"....Do you even play STO?

"BO+Quantum combo means you're optimizing for trash kills.
Transphasics optimize for sustained hull dps on tough target ... or: targets where it actually counts."


And what is this crap? If you're going to make **** up, make up some good ****! Some people just like saying stuff. Someday someone will explain to me why that is.

And before you nerd rage into a frenzy. You're reasoning is flawed. You've simply created situations where your solution appears to be the only solution. If you'd like to propose an argument, go ahead. You haven't yet.

Cheers and happy flying!
Aww.. come on This! I was sitting back quirking an eyebrow some at the math that was being done. A bunch of us old timers sat down and did a huge comparison on all the torpedoes...
  • damage ratio's
  • vs type of ship
  • vs the assortment of torps that works best together
  • vs build spec
  • vs equipment/consoles
  • vs which BO power affects which torpedo first in the firing heirarchy
  • vs Rate of Fire (with and without doff)

Yeah we hashed this out a while back team. Boils down to a simple thing.

If it works for you, run with it.

There is no "master" transphasic build, and sorry transphasic torps while do a good amount of damage through a hull are easily countered with 3 different consoles, and 2 BO powers, if you simply do some research and read the info on those powers.

However, they have Definitely been improved and now are on par at least as a good torpedo to have now.

and if you are wondering, I take my torpedo boat out on ELITE STF's and I will draw aggro quickly from the PVE bosses.

Prometheus Class Escort
Front: RF Transphasic, Photon Torpedo, RF Transphasic, TriCobolt Torp (Manual fire only)
Rear: Photon Torpedo, Transphasic Cluster Mine Launcher, Harpeng torpedo


*BO Powers and ship build withheld

You all are on the right track however, just think it through and do not worry so much over damage number v
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 119
# 59
08-23-2012, 01:40 PM
I've actually used twin Rapid Fire Transphasic Torpedo Launchers (Breen series loot). It doesn't have the spike damage of a good quantum volley, but it's steady and consistent hull damage and with the right DOffs you can keep on firing with almost no pause!

Check it out sometime.

I found that to get the most out of twin rapid fire launchers... put them in the front. Their cooldown is too fast to effectively use on a cruiser in a front/back configuration.

(Though mind you, I prefer quantums for PvE since computer opponents aren't nearly as good at keeping their shields up.)

Last edited by onenonlydrock; 08-23-2012 at 01:43 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 591
# 60
08-23-2012, 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bludagger View Post
[color="DarkOrange"]
There is no "master" transphasic build, and sorry transphasic torps while do a good amount of damage through a hull are easily countered with 3 different consoles, and 2 BO powers, if you simply do some research and read the info on those powers.
I think it will take a lot more then that to counter a master transphasic build. Perhaps with 4 healing skills.
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