Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,642
Many people have noted the Dilthium sink of building a Starbase and that in itself is HUGE

Take just the Full upgrage to Tier 2 each supsection requires 108k Dilth and the Upgrade itself another 216K dilth

So over 500,000 dilth to upgrade to tier 2

Now to the EC cost/opportunity cost of moving on to Tier 3

The bulk of the cost is still in Doffs - while Cryptic provided a way to get doffs from your starbase I did a test and bought 1000 doffs and gave the breakdown here:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=36

297 Tactical Doffs = 29.7% chance
38 Security Doffs = 3.8% chance - You have less than a 4% chance getting security doff!!
73 Engineering doffs = 7.3%
271 Operational doffs = 20.4%
90 Science doffs = 9%
231 edical Doffs = 23.1%


So lets take 1 Military 1000 xp tier 3 project as and example

Now before people start saying you can get doffs for free - using them is still what's called in finance/accounting and "opportunity" cost - simple what you could get if you did not use the doff into the project

so the requirement for 1000xp tier 3 Military:

60 Tactical doffs - cost 40k ec eack = $2.4 million EC
60 Security doffs - cost 200k ec eack = $16 million EC!!!

100 MK 3 torps 4k each = 400k EC

3000 Provisions - cost 75 ec eack = 225,000 ec

600 Fleet Marks cost - ????

So just 1 assignment for tier 3 = a cost/opportunity cost of $19 Million EC!!(not including fleet marks

23 millitary assigments to complete tier 3 = 19x23 = $437 MILLION ec - Just for Millitary

the others cost 1/2 as much so to tier 3 is a cost/opportunity cost of almost $1 BILLION EC

So is it worth it??? (cost to tier 2 is already several Hunderd million ec)

So if you skipped tier 3 and put all those resources on exchange you would have $1 billion ec for your fleet - not including the Fleet marks and dilth
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 860
# 2
08-18-2012, 05:56 AM
I hate to say it but does it matter? Energy credits =/= real money so hey, who cares I'm not counting how many bullets I fired to defeat the Zerg in Starcraft

That said, I'd love to see a cost break down by dilithium ;-) That'd be an interesting figure
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,949
# 3
08-18-2012, 06:05 AM
Is it worth it? It depends on the individual Fleet. For a 1-person Fleet? No, probably not. For a 150-person Fleet it's not all that difficult. It's even less difficult for long-time players. I mean I alone have over 400 million EC and over 3 million Dilithium I can contribute - assuming I wanted to. And there's always ways for people to make quick ECs: Selling Keys, Modules, etc.

Of course I don't find the Fleet project all that interesting. I mean, it's a lot of grinding just to get some Fleet Ships - that I have to pay money for. Personally, I'd rather join a larger Fleet and just buy my Fleet ships from them - and use my EC to buy the Modules on the Exchange.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,109
# 4
08-18-2012, 06:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by levi3 View Post
Many people have noted the Dilthium sink of building a Starbase and that in itself is HUGE

Take just the Full upgrage to Tier 2 each supsection requires 108k Dilth and the Upgrade itself another 216K dilth

So over 500,000 dilth to upgrade to tier 2

Now to the EC cost/opportunity cost of moving on to Tier 3

The bulk of the cost is still in Doffs - while Cryptic provided a way to get doffs from your starbase I did a test and bought 1000 doffs and gave the breakdown here:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=36

297 Tactical Doffs = 29.7% chance
38 Security Doffs = 3.8% chance - You have less than a 4% chance getting security doff!!
73 Engineering doffs = 7.3%
271 Operational doffs = 20.4%
90 Science doffs = 9%
231 edical Doffs = 23.1%


So lets take 1 Military 1000 xp tier 3 project as and example

Now before people start saying you can get doffs for free - using them is still what's called in finance/accounting and "opportunity" cost - simple what you could get if you did not use the doff into the project

so the requirement for 1000xp tier 3 Military:

60 Tactical doffs - cost 40k ec eack = $2.4 million EC
60 Security doffs - cost 200k ec eack = $16 million EC!!!

100 MK 3 torps 4k each = 400k EC

3000 Provisions - cost 75 ec eack = 225,000 ec

600 Fleet Marks cost - ????

So just 1 assignment for tier 3 = a cost/opportunity cost of $19 Million EC!!(not including fleet marks

23 millitary assigments to complete tier 3 = 19x23 = $437 MILLION ec - Just for Millitary

the others cost 1/2 as much so to tier 3 is a cost/opportunity cost of almost $1 BILLION EC

So is it worth it??? (cost to tier 2 is already several Hunderd million ec)

So if you skipped tier 3 and put all those resources on exchange you would have $1 billion ec for your fleet - not including the Fleet marks and dilth
Your argument has a slight flaw in that if it wasn't for the starbases the Security DOFFs would sell for around 15-20K, so it is the starbase project that has made them expensive.

Second it is not necessary to select the projects that require a lot of DOFFs, I always select the one that give 500 XP and require just a handful of DOFFs, total time is probably less because although it takes twice as many projects to progress it's much easier and quicker to fill the projects.

500 million EC sounds a lot but with 250 fleet members it's just 2 million each which is peanuts. For small fleets yeah, it's going to take them a long long time but so what? It's not a race, I tell my guys to do what they can when they can and motivate them with rewards comprised of titles, FSMs and Ships.

Your analysis of the breakdown of DOFFs per 1000 is very interesting, Cryptic should tweak these figures because 4% on security DOFFs matches my experience too, I got 2 sensor DOFFs out of 200 commons. Those projects are therefore not even considered any more, if your fleet leaders are adding them then you should point it out to them.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 348
# 5
08-18-2012, 06:26 AM
for you again nobody known how much exactly will tier 5 lvl cost or the total starbase, but it will be insane price yes.

so join the bigest fleet what you can find on that way the cost will be the lowest as possiple ea player.

and yes small fleets burning recoures down for nothing they will never reach the end.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 6
08-18-2012, 06:38 AM
Doffs are FREE (opportunity cost is a broken concept discredited in the early 22nd century)

Dilith is Free as well if you work for it

everything is Free if you work for it
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 350
# 7 Fleet Store
08-18-2012, 06:38 AM
If you sold your resources on the exchange you still will not be able to buy from the fleet store.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 992
# 8
08-18-2012, 06:47 AM
I run a one person fleet and haven't had any issues with Doffs just yet. Every 18 hours I go to Starfleet Academy and see the Vulcan, Tellarite, and Andorian Personnel Officers as well as the Personnel Officer by Lt. Ferra, who gives me 5 more recruitment missions. I can net anywhere from 12-20 common doffs just on these missions alone. I then mail them to myself and store them as opposed to keeping them on the active roster. I have quite a reserve of common boffs going now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 348
# 9
08-18-2012, 06:52 AM
i think dil will kill most starbases fleet marks is also possible.


if 1x projekt on tier 4 eats for example will cost 500k-1mio dil where take this in small fleets, yes no way thats the point not doffs or other junk.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,642
# 10
08-18-2012, 07:08 AM
Perhaps a little confusion - as my post was primarily aimed at small fleets

Second my analysis through the doff experiment with commons from the starbase proves that this is not effective for some doffs

"If" Cryptic said that the doffs you get from buying them from the starbase would be Random - then this is an out and out Lie by Cryptic

Last edited by levi3; 08-18-2012 at 07:30 AM.
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