Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 171
09-02-2012, 04:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
im trying to make the case that they shouldn't be nerfed, but sci captains should get a better synergy. tac captains have a synergy with all energy and kinetic damage. science needs a synergy with drain damage that is only defended by insulators. engenders need... well i guess synergy with heals, less cooldown or double the effect from hull repair skill or something. the other 2 are below the tacs level, alone. scis are of course great to have in teams of course. if you can agree with that, post about it.
i dont disagree that tac captains have synergy with doing damage. but not with science powers. science captains have no synergy with any of the ships, engineerings turn any ship theyre in into a better tank and tactical turns any of their ships into damage monsters. the cruiser and the escort that damage is by way of WEAPONS damage. why is it that when flying a science ship they should be able to get the extra damage from weapons and science powers?
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 172
09-02-2012, 08:13 AM
Because without that ability, Tac in sci ships Suck Ass. There's a reason they vanished after they removed tac boosted sci skills Mai the first time.

Also, why shouldn't he be able to? he ranked the skill too. I mean seriously, from an in game universe standpoint, he's done as much research as the sci has in how to apply advanced theory to have the ship create anomalies etc efficiently and effectively. Now why wouldn't he know how to best apply those same theories, in the most damaging way possible? (tac boosting)

And why can't the sci, know how to better afflict the enemy ship with negative status effects?

And why doesn't the Engineer know how to best effect repairs to ships? Because right now? Engineer Captains Suck, not by a little, but by ALOT. I would much rather have a sci cruiser right now than an Eng Cruiser for healing duties, they suck so hard thanks to all the new super healing doffs we have in pvp.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 346
# 173
09-02-2012, 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716maikai View Post
i would support you just to piss off the pve'rs but i firmly believe that tactical captain powers shouldnt increase science damage powers.

tactical captains make the most of weapons! not fancy gimmiks and tricks. in a science vessel theyd still be able to out damage a science captain in a science vessel. just not with the science powers.
So, does that mean Sensor Scan shouldn't work on weapons?
Subnucleonic Beam not be availlable on Cruisers, BoPs, Carriers or Escorts, only SVs?
Miracle Worker only work on Cruisers?

Every Captain abilty works with every Ship type, why should that be changed?
And changed selectively, at that?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 174
09-02-2012, 12:25 PM
Tacticals should out dmg sci captains in any ship... they should out dmg them with weapons... and skills that create dmg.

Tactical Captains get NOTHING else. They don't get AOE dmg reducing fields... they don't get spam fleets... they don't get massive insta debuff skills that increase an entire teams dmg.

They most importantly to PvP don't get the ship ender the Sub NUKE.

Yes tacticals do more dmg in general... and with the way healing is setup in this game... the sci doing 5/8s the dmg will still get more kills..... REAL KILLS, everyone by know should understand how the score board works... that sci ship with 3-5 kills is a lie we all know it.

You people need to ask yourselves, what you are more interested in in PvP....

Scoreboard numbers...
Or
Real Kills....

Cause I hate to break it to people.... Tacs do more scoreboard in a sci ship... Sci add something of real value to them flying them as they should be.... yes they don't do as much dmg... but lets be honest tacticals in sci ships don't show up in serious games do they. Why is that... cause its a pug build. It kills noobs... to kill real players you need tacticals in real dmg ships... and you need sci in a real sci ship controling... and debuffing.

Last edited by husanakx; 09-02-2012 at 12:27 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 843
# 175
09-02-2012, 02:20 PM
It's not just the Sci/Sci's ability to deliver damage that we are worried about here. A sci should, primarily, be doing CC. There are very few powers that can still accomplish this in any meaningful way, against other players (some don't work against NPC's either).

We all know the list of broken/underpowered sci boff abilities, many of those used to be our bread and butter, now they do nothing.

Damage has always been secondary to a good sci captain in a sci ship, as it should be. Now, you have to do some damage to justify being there at all.

What we really need is for sci boff abilities to be balanced against resists or vice-versa, so that they don't become utterly useless when attacking a hardened/resisted target. No, they shouldn't do as much as they would against a target with no resists, but you should be able to see a shield facing or 4 budge when you used a FULLY-SPEC'd CPB.

Currently

resists > fully spec'd offensive/cc abilities

That's wrong.
Quote:
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ RIYOTT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ: Have you wondered that maybe all the things they've added to the gaem lately is to literally make PvP unbearable? Because everything they've added has no use in PvE at all; we know the big boss hates 14 yo min maxers
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 36
# 176
09-02-2012, 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonfl View Post
It's not just the Sci/Sci's ability to deliver damage that we are worried about here. A sci should, primarily, be doing CC. There are very few powers that can still accomplish this in any meaningful way, against other players (some don't work against NPC's either).

We all know the list of broken/underpowered sci boff abilities, many of those used to be our bread and butter, now they do nothing.

Damage has always been secondary to a good sci captain in a sci ship, as it should be. Now, you have to do some damage to justify being there at all.

What we really need is for sci boff abilities to be balanced against resists or vice-versa, so that they don't become utterly useless when attacking a hardened/resisted target. No, they shouldn't do as much as they would against a target with no resists, but you should be able to see a shield facing or 4 budge when you used a FULLY-SPEC'd CPB.

Currently

resists > fully spec'd offensive/cc abilities

That's wrong.


So Tacs should be able to be awesome in all ships, and we sci's should be happy with one role. Give me a break.

I'm a sci with 9 points in particle generators and subspace decompiler. I skilled my character for PSW, and it sucks now. That is the problem.

Sci ships are slow, they only have 3 fore and aft weapons AND our abilities are nerfed.

NERF TAC.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 177
09-02-2012, 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
Tacticals should out dmg sci captains in any ship... they should out dmg them with weapons... and skills that create dmg.

Tactical Captains get NOTHING else. They don't get AOE dmg reducing fields... they don't get spam fleets... they don't get massive insta debuff skills that increase an entire teams dmg.

They most importantly to PvP don't get the ship ender the Sub NUKE.

Yes tacticals do more dmg in general... and with the way healing is setup in this game... the sci doing 5/8s the dmg will still get more kills..... REAL KILLS, everyone by know should understand how the score board works... that sci ship with 3-5 kills is a lie we all know it.

You people need to ask yourselves, what you are more interested in in PvP....

Scoreboard numbers...
Or
Real Kills....

Cause I hate to break it to people.... Tacs do more scoreboard in a sci ship... Sci add something of real value to them flying them as they should be.... yes they don't do as much dmg... but lets be honest tacticals in sci ships don't show up in serious games do they. Why is that... cause its a pug build. It kills noobs... to kill real players you need tacticals in real dmg ships... and you need sci in a real sci ship controling... and debuffing.
and when you stick a tactical captain in a sci ship, the tactical captain will still be out damageing the science because the tactical will be boosting the weapons damage.

i wish i could argue my point better. all i hear is that "tacticals should out damage everything in anything" sure ok. i get that. and if they cant boost science damage powers they;d still be out damageing eveyrthing because everything has weapons. they'd just do it best in an in escort.

even if science captains did get fixed and made super beyond powerfully awesome in science ships. thats all they'd be good in. because other ships cant take enough/high level science control powers to make up that difference, while tacticals get weapons with eveyrthing they fly. and engineers get to survive longer in everything they fly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quiscustodiet View Post
So, does that mean Sensor Scan shouldn't work on weapons?
Subnucleonic Beam not be availlable on Cruisers, BoPs, Carriers or Escorts, only SVs?
Miracle Worker only work on Cruisers?

Every Captain abilty works with every Ship type, why should that be changed?
And changed selectively, at that?
yes. i do think sensor scan shouldnt work with weapons damage and only increase science damage.

you're blowing it out of proportons from what i'm suggesting. im not saying that tactical powers shouldnt work at all just that it should only increase weapons damage. and since every ship has weapons his powers will still greatly enhance anything he flys. its not selectivly picking and choosing. all his powers would still work, so he'd still be viable. just not as they currently are.

this is proportantly imbalanced between the 3 captains types.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,619
# 178
09-02-2012, 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716maikai View Post
and when you stick a tactical captain in a sci ship, the tactical captain will still be out damageing the science because the tactical will be boosting the weapons damage.

i wish i could argue my point better. all i hear is that "tacticals should out damage everything in anything" sure ok. i get that. and if they cant boost science damage powers they;d still be out damageing eveyrthing because everything has weapons. they'd just do it best in an in escort.

even if science captains did get fixed and made super beyond powerfully awesome in science ships. thats all they'd be good in. because other ships cant take enough/high level science control powers to make up that difference, while tacticals get weapons with eveyrthing they fly. and engineers get to survive longer in everything they fly.
science captains dealing science damage with science abilities is not the point. its the other effect the ability has to push, pull, befuddle and stun. the only exception would be the ability to strip shields, that can be thought of as dealing damage. to bad thats not an option right now. its that effect other then damage that sets up kills when all the damage and all the healing in the world simply cancel each other out. the tac/sci just dealing damage with little or no cc is just for pug stomping fun like husanakx said. out side of premades situations the sci sci has little purpose, but it seems to be the only thing that can break a deadlock in my experience.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 735
# 179
09-02-2012, 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
the tac/sci just dealing damage with little or no cc is just for pug stomping fun like husanakx said. out side of premades situations the sci sci has little purpose, but it seems to be the only thing that can break a deadlock in my experience.
yeah.. and who pugs anyway?

in STO we all fly premade!

am I much off if I say 95% of all matches in STO have at least 1 PUG team?

am I wrong in saying that a fresh outta PvE sci-captain have crappy captain abilities when he tries his hand in PvP?

am I at fault for wanting the sci captain to play a role also outside of premades? (or maybe even outside of PvP?)

Sure, the sci-sci has a role in a premade.... :p
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 180
09-02-2012, 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
science captains dealing science damage with science abilities is not the point. its the other effect the ability has to push, pull, befuddle and stun. the only exception would be the ability to strip shields, that can be thought of as dealing damage. to bad thats not an option right now. its that effect other then damage that sets up kills when all the damage and all the healing in the world simply cancel each other out. the tac/sci just dealing damage with little or no cc is just for pug stomping fun like husanakx said. out side of premades situations the sci sci has little purpose, but it seems to be the only thing that can break a deadlock in my experience.
then imagine how insanely powerful the tactical captain will be when they do fix science powers.

if science powers were fixed tomorrow, science captains still cant do **** with them.

tactical captains then would gain all the crowd control AND the un-needed extra damage from the science powers.
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