Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 438
# 11
08-19-2012, 09:41 PM
I have to agree that the fact a tac in a sci ship is more effective than a sci in a sci ship is pretty stupid. Husanack's tac/sci regularly puts up bigger damage numbers than other tac/tac's in the match. However, I don't necessarily think this is a result of tac/sci being overpowered as it is yet another indication of how far out of balance this game has gotten. Sci/Sci's on a team used to be the biggest threat of a premade team. A team with two good sci/sci's working together was a god damn nightmare to deal with. Since the push to P2W, cryptic seems to have made it their mission to nerf sci into the ground. Whats left is some quirky tac/sci layouts that work, BUT ONLY BECAUSE ITS THE ONLY THING LEFT THAT WORKS!

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about this for too long though. PSW is now garbage, and my prediction is that TBR may not be too far behind. After that, what all is left for tac's to exploit?

Last edited by falloutx23; 08-19-2012 at 09:57 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 12
08-19-2012, 09:51 PM
I still think problem is in sci ships and sci "dmg" abilities. The fact only tacs with a bugged PSW3 made them dangerous kinda proves it.

Sci ships have lowest number of weapons, tac abilities and tac consoles...yet their "magic" dmg sucks.

Truth is, the low ranked sci heals/buffs are more than enough for any ship, from which especially escorts profit so much. On the other side, you need either high ranked engineering or tactical abilities to be dangerous as the low ranked ones won't cut it.

Gimping tacs in science ships won't solve anything, or rather will make that noone plays those ships.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 13
08-20-2012, 12:38 AM
I personally would go away from direct dmg on science ship abilities and make them debuffs.

Tachyon beam = shield breach, debuffs the target shield dmg reduction for duration. Resists would reduce the duration of the debuff, cleared by science team. Duration is improved by Aux. Ideally, a tachyon beam 1 would counter Emergency Power to Shields 1 + 50 shield power effect.

Charged Particle Burst = disables cloak, debuffs the target and prevents shields to be healed by natural regen or abilities for the duration. Resists would reduce the duration of the debuff, cleared by science team. Duration is improved by Aux.

As for boosting science captains in sci ships. I would change sensor scan.

I would remove the dmg resistance debuff, and apply a new buff type that improves the magnitude of all offensive sci effect used on victim.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,166
# 14
08-20-2012, 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
Hey! Starwrathy Where've you been matey. Been missing poking you in the ribs.

And then on topic, ^^ what Ozzie said. Or rzu Daisy now
Eh, yes...also bad times for little Daisy! Usually I'm at Ker'rat vaporizing Bops or pugging against the evil Klinguns, same old boring story.
But tell me...when will you leave the Evil Empire to go back among the good guys?
And by the way, are you glad that your PSW3 now sucks?
K D F - Killing Disadvantaged Feds
K D F - The evul way to play Sto

I salute Adm. Marcus, a real Starfleet hero! Thanks to his courage we Tac Feds now have an awesome Cruiser, the USS Avenger!
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 13
# 15
08-20-2012, 04:19 AM
What I'd like to see

Tac does the most direct/single target damage... And something, anything else. Notice that all 5 tac captain abilities directly increase damage, none of them alone is overpowered but in combination they simply outdo anything else. If an engineer had 5 tanking abilities they'd be jumping into pvp in near invulnerable NX classes for the giggles.

Science gets AOE damage, debuffs and not getting shot. IE science officers can actually do better or equivalent AOE damage to tacs. This should work well with science ships as there are so many AOE sci abilities. Against a single target they will do less damage but get the debuffs such as SNB. Again no science captain ability is precisely bad, but they lack focus. Then for the debuff side you could have scattering field alter defense/accuracy in your teams favour. Maybe make photonic fleet mess with the enemies targeting.

And a bit off topic...
Engineers lose a bit of tank focus, upgrade engines and become the fastest. Also retain being the best with power levels.

If anyone brings up "support" as a class role please consider that ALL classes should support their team, as suits their strengths. Tacs help the entire team do more damage, scis protect the team from debuffs, engis help with power levels (All of which are in game, maybe not obvious or equal strength).
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 351
# 16
08-20-2012, 06:58 AM
Ok just a few thoughts from me and maybe you can tell me where I go wrong:

Lets say we shoot someone who gets healed: He has an initial shield resistance from his shield power so lets say thats about 25%. ge gets 10% from MACO, 18% from EPtS1, 12% from TSS and 30% from an extend.
So some math: 0.75*0.9*0.82*0.88*0.7=0.341 so he has about 66% resi on his shields.
If we say my guns would do 1000 dmg they now do 340.
Now how much can I increase my dmg with tac buffs? If i double it I get 680dmg.

If I would remove his buffs and disrupt the extend he still has his initial shield resi and MACO shield so:
0.75*0.9=0.675
So i would do 675dmg after my sub nuc.

Now if I say two tacs are shooting the target I get 680*2=1360dmg
1 sci with sub nuc and one tac: 675+675*2= 2025dmg

Now i never tested how much dmg increase tac buffs give with with all the crit bonus but if you say you do 4 times the dmg the tac/sci combo still wins.

There are problems of course. Your target might still have an oh **** button and the team might provide further healing. That means you just need very good timing with your spike and sub nuc, maybe a 2nd sub nuc on standby for his oh **** emergency.
In the end in a premade I would take 1eng 2tac 2sci captains. You should have enough spike to rip through an unprotected enemy, the 1. SNB strips his buff and the 2nd his emergency backup.

In fact I have to say when I die it is because:
1. I made a mistake, like pressing the wrong button, sleeping, having a beer in one hand,...
2. There is just too much dmg which is mostly because my team isnt helping me. That can be due to many reasons like the fact that it is pug without healers.
3. SNB

The more competent the players get, the more likely it is number 3 (or 1) that kills me.

Now I havent been in that many high end battles but I got the honor of fighting a group of pandas with my fleet last weekend. Unsurprisingly we lost 15 0 but we very nearly almost killed one and our only chance to get to someones hull was the use of SNB. Also most of my deaths were connected to an SNB.

Now I can see why pugging in a tac might be more efficient. You can still do fine in a sci and personally I have had more fun with a sci.
In a high end battle I can not see how you could win without SNB but than again I lack the experience. Also the defensive buffs of a sci seem quite nice and help the team.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 158
# 17
08-20-2012, 07:20 AM
Ah another "my character class sucks because XX reason" when the thread should be labeled "I don't understand my class, a little advice please"
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 786
# 18
08-20-2012, 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
I personally would go away from direct dmg on science ship abilities and make them debuffs.


I would remove the dmg resistance debuff, and apply a new buff type that improves the magnitude of all offensive sci effect used on victim.
We had this once, it was call Sci Fleet. Oh wait, we still have that. However, when they removed the "Starship Operations" skill from the skill tree, they took the ability for Sci Captains to boost sci abilities beyond their normal effectiveness. Dontdrunk and I have been advocating for a return of something similar since the F2P skill tree went live.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post
We actually really don't like A2B, but it's a bit of a "third rail" situation. When we have the right fix to it, someday, we'll probably possibly maybe make it.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 19
08-20-2012, 07:51 AM
Yes but science fleet has high cooldown. I would just make "attack pattern science" like ability for sci toons.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 20
08-20-2012, 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonfl View Post
We had this once, it was call Sci Fleet. Oh wait, we still have that. However, when they removed the "Starship Operations" skill from the skill tree, they took the ability for Sci Captains to boost sci abilities beyond their normal effectiveness. Dontdrunk and I have been advocating for a return of something similar since the F2P skill tree went live.
Well sci fleet was out of hand at one time granting basicly shield resist cap for the entire team....

However I think they could take something like say SPAM FLEET... and remove it all together and replace it with a Sci Self Buff... say a buff that gives you instant, sensor ann (no matter what ship being a captain skill... and yes it should stack with sci ship sensor ann), this skill could also provide say a flat +75 type bonus to operations.

Yes this would be powerful combined with sensor scan... but the game could use the spam reduction... and Sci being able to do some dmg... I'm fine with that.

While there at it Engi needs a dmg buff as well. I would like to see either a cool down reduction on nadion inversion... or a DEM like effect added to it... or better yet both.

Lets face it both sci and engi pale in the face of tac right now... mainly because Cryptic has turbo charged healing. Subnuke is the only skill needed outside of the Tac skill set.
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