Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 21
08-20-2012, 08:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzsth View Post
Ah another "my character class sucks because XX reason" when the thread should be labeled "I don't understand my class, a little advice please"
Well when one of the main sci guys in that little TSI fleet... thinks sci has become junk... perhaps there is something to it.

A team can never use enough sub nukes... but its sort of annoying that that is all a sci in a sci ship is good for anymore.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 566
# 22
08-20-2012, 08:38 AM
My 2 cents: tacs should stay as they are. But for sci: sensor scan should increase all sci abilities effects, as dalnar said. Maybe also reduce its cool down slightly. It should become the sci's apa. Sci captains are not very effective killers as a class, they only do wonders in a team, mainly with a coordinated subnuc, sensor scan and heals. I know cc was their purpose but I would like to see more damage done through their abilities, but something to put them on a different class than a tac. Subnuc: It should only remove 2-3 random buffs, maybe with a proc to remove all, depending on some doffs for a time interval depending of aux power. Maybe also reduce the cooldown a bit. I know, too many maybes, lol, but it is quite hard for me to envision a ballanced re-tune of those sci abilities. Cannon wise, subnuc doesn't have sense, meaning what kind of mumbo jumbo happens that takes away your buffs, lol (same for he, but that's another story). I understand it's purpose for the game, take away subnuc and sci is really worthless in any ship, even in a premade. Right now, my opinion is that a sci in a sci ship is pretty much useles in anything but premades, or coordinate teams, other that subnuc and ss, damage dealt is pathetic, heal is great but not enough to compensate the damage even from a tac buffed cruiser, even if you subnuc your opponent, you won't deal so much damage by yourself to make a kill.

I wonder though, how's a sci gonna be in the new fleet mvam, I saw few sci in old mvam very effective. And that makes me wonder, why doesn't Matteo jump his hardcore sci rear into one of them? Lol.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 23
08-20-2012, 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzsth View Post
Ah another "my character class sucks because XX reason" when the thread should be labeled "I don't understand my class, a little advice please"
I'm Mai Kai, from the fleet The spanish Inquisition. As far as I know, I'm still one of the top science players in the game. this thread has nothing to do with what a science captain can or can't do. it has to do with why is it a tactical captain can boost science powers but a science captian cant. its been like this since day one, and i've never understood why that is.

i dont think its right that a tactical in a science ship can make the most of his guns (full weapon power) sensor anylasis (extra weapon damage) and make the most of non aux damage sci powers (like shockwave) and then add all of his extra bonuses from tactical captain abilities on top of all 3 of those.

the extra damage should only apply to weapon damage from a tactical. otherwise it seems tacitcals are better at sci then science.



Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
Well when one of the main sci guys in that little TSI fleet... thinks sci has become junk... perhaps there is something to it.

A team can never use enough sub nukes... but its sort of annoying that that is all a sci in a sci ship is good for anymore.
i know.. it pains me to think that these past 2 years of playing and learning and teaching about science that i myself apparently know nothing of science.

-sad little inquisitor-
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 24
08-20-2012, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716maikai View Post
I'm Mai Kai, from the fleet The spanish Inquisition. As far as I know, I'm still one of the top science players in the game. this thread has nothing to do with what a science captain can or can't do. it has to do with why is it a tactical captain can boost science powers but a science captian cant. its been like this since day one, and i've never understood why that is.

i dont think its right that a tactical in a science ship can make the most of his guns (full weapon power) sensor anylasis (extra weapon damage) and make the most of non aux damage sci powers (like shockwave) and then add all of his extra bonuses from tactical captain abilities on top of all 3 of those.

the extra damage should only apply to weapon damage from a tactical. otherwise it seems tacitcals are better at sci then science.





i know.. it pains me to think that these past 2 years of playing and learning and teaching about science that i myself apparently know nothing of science.

-sad little inquisitor-
And you are fallin right into the trap of # peen syndrome Mai. The thing is, the work that sci sci is supposed to do vs tac sci are two different roles, as I already covered. Sci Sci, go more on the debuff crazy end of things. Tac sci pump damage. It's what both captain types nativly excel at.

Can a tac sci focus on the debuff end? Sure... but he would be screwing over his best assets in the process which is Damage. Sci on the other hand gains nothing but benefits from focusing on the debuff and zone denial aspect. Sci also does gain from focusing on damage, but it's not the most optimal choice to do so.

I would hope, that after 2 years of playing this game on the level you play at, you'd have figured out Sci Sci = mass debuff powa. Eng Sci = Healer/cleanser and Tac sci = Dps wizard.

I have 0 issues flying my sci sci, that my tac sci doesn't also face. (in that sci powers right now, especially post final death of PSW) My sci sci is also capable of putting up some respectable #s even when I set her up on the debuff end of things vs my tac sci. Sure my tac sci can really hose out damage. But to do so, his zone denial, and debuff capability suffers tremendously in the process.

Also lets face it during CPBs, Scramble, and Chain Stuns reigns, Tac Sci was a complete waste of time next to a sci sci.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 25
08-20-2012, 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
And you are fallin right into the trap of # peen syndrome Mai. The thing is, the work that sci sci is supposed to do vs tac sci are two different roles, as I already covered. Sci Sci, go more on the debuff crazy end of things. Tac sci pump damage. It's what both captain types nativly excel at.

Can a tac sci focus on the debuff end? Sure... but he would be screwing over his best assets in the process which is Damage. Sci on the other hand gains nothing but benefits from focusing on the debuff and zone denial aspect. Sci also does gain from focusing on damage, but it's not the most optimal choice to do so.

I would hope, that after 2 years of playing this game on the level you play at, you'd have figured out Sci Sci = mass debuff powa. Eng Sci = Healer/cleanser and Tac sci = Dps wizard.

I have 0 issues flying my sci sci, that my tac sci doesn't also face. (in that sci powers right now, especially post final death of PSW) My sci sci is also capable of putting up some respectable #s even when I set her up on the debuff end of things vs my tac sci. Sure my tac sci can really hose out damage. But to do so, his zone denial, and debuff capability suffers tremendously in the process.

Also lets face it during CPBs, Scramble, and Chain Stuns reigns, Tac Sci was a complete waste of time next to a sci sci.
epeen has nothing to do with it.

any power the tacitcal takes that does any type of damage and debuffs (i only know of one outright debuff for science powers anyways that isnt covereed by a p2w console and thats vm) does not hinder the tacticals damage, if anything it increases it while hes in command. while the science captain gains nothing from going the debuff route that a tactical could do just as well and more damage on top of it.

crowd control abilities (ams the exception) there is no point in crowd control powers. they all suck. the only power worth taking for commander slot (as a science in a science) is vm. and it is one target only every 60 seconds.

when science crowd control acutally means somthing then science ships will have a place. right now, there is no point in taking a science ship. i've watched the slow degrading of all the science powers be turned into useless slot spots, wave 3 was the last of the damage dealing science control powers. tbr is too unreliable to be considered "crowd control" so i dont include that for this purpose.

all in all science ships have no place in the game right now, anything they could do can be dont better by something else. that being said, tacitcal science ships are more viable then science captained science ships.

since sensor scan lowers hull resistence, why cant dampining/scatter field do the same to shields? or maybe have it nullfy natural shield regen, or anything that would compliment the whole "crowd control" aspect of the class that science is supposed to be. buffs and debuffs are laughable, only 1 science debuff (the captains sensor scan) is a science power, all the other debuffs are tactical based.

i just want science to be fun again and not rely on a single power to be viable in premades, because when that last power gets re-nerfededed there will not be able powers a science can take that would be of any use that an escort or crusier couldnt take for themselves AND deal damage or heal.

and dont even get me started on the friggin fleet ships. some of the most stupidly laid out console bonuses for the wrong ships. why on earth does the dssv have a 5th science slot when its obviously the "engineer" science ship? why doesnt it have a 4th engineering slot?
same with the long range science vessel retrofit. its the SCIENCE/science ship, yet was given a 3rd tactical slot... the only science ship they got right was the recon. 4 science and 4 tactials, since its the tacitcal science ship....

the poor rhode island... -cries-

a major overhaul of the science skill tree would solve 99% of the science power problems.
the other 1% would be fixing the science fleet ships i mentioned.

niether is likely to happen so i'll sit here and be sad that this game i love keeps neglecting the class of ships and captain i love.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 26
08-20-2012, 11:49 AM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~BranFlakes

Last edited by pwebranflakes; 08-20-2012 at 12:18 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 608
# 27
08-20-2012, 12:31 PM
Nerf Tactical Players? Really? I don't think you really thought that one through...

By the way did you even notice that escorts, and sci ships are both equally neglected by Cryptic? No?

Did you see all of the cruisers in the last 8 months?

| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |

Last edited by mewi; 08-20-2012 at 12:35 PM.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 28
08-20-2012, 12:38 PM
Sure the tac could go the debuff route. And he will Suck For It. Hard. You'd have to be a complete 'tard to field a debuff heavy tac instead of a dps hoser. It completely destroys the advantage he brings to the field, while it only accentuates what the sci does best. I've kicked ships out of combat in my sci sci who fielded ships that had 9 ranks in ID, out by 15km before with her TBR2. (going to upgrade it back up to 3 now that PSW is Trash all the way around) Once you get the hang of using TBR, it's difficult to go back to not using it given the Craptastic Nature of other sci abilities.

You don't take 3 tacs to the field. You take 3 scis. That is and has always been the case. (Infact during scis high points, the only reason everyone didn't field just 5 sci was because no one was that much of a **** )

Yes all CC sucks. That's true regardless of if you are Sci or Tac. I put my Tac back in his MVAM, because sci? Sci powers Suck. That's nothing unique to being a sci captain there buddy.

Sci and tac captains, in sci ships are both Royally Screwed right now. Tac sci is not a damn bit more viable than sci sci is. They are both Toilet Suckers. Don't pretend otherwise. I could go que up right now as both my sci recon and tac recons and get pretty even numbers, and effect on the battlefield. I won't because STO is garbage and I don't play public pvp in Garbage Games, but there it is in a nutshell.

At least Sensor Scan works, unlike FOMM, as far as I'm concerned tacs only have 3 powers. APA, GDF and Tac Fleet. Sci have 4. And yes dampening field (scattering field whatever it's the same power), is worlds beyond FOMM.

The MVAM is right there along with sci ships for Suck For Lucking right now. It only enjoyed a brief time of being a powerful ship, and that time was kicked away, shot in the face and robbed, by the skill tree. Then to piss on the grave Craptic introduced the Bugship.

The Fleet Nova, got Bo3 and APO capability at least. It also has 3 tac slots. It's not Screwed, like the MVAM was.

I want sci powers to actually Work again as a whole. Asking for Tacs to get a kick in the crotch is not the answer and we both know it. Because if that happens what is left for sci ships... Engineer Healers. ..... and we both know how lame and uncool that is, compared to what a tholian carrier can pump for heals.

Oh and Branflakes, you're breaking your own forum rules. Just so you know champ.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,052
# 29
08-20-2012, 12:40 PM
arguing with mai kai on the finite points of the sci captain or sci ship will be an exhausting venture for any person. i have learned so much from reading his advice. he always has sound reasoning and communicates his points in a professional and constructive manner.

i think this thread is healthy, and this is my first post in it since im not so great with the sci stuffs. but i know where to go to get good advice for my sci builds....and its with that guy mai kai.

so keep up the fight, i do think that tac buffs should only impact weapons persormance tho, and sci buffs sci abilities. seems to just make sense that way.

have fun kill bad guys
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 874
# 30
08-20-2012, 12:41 PM
If tacticals didn't boost science ships there would be no reason to run a tac/sci. One ninth of the possible ship/career combinations would become obsolete.
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