Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 21
08-21-2012, 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtoney3448 View Post
Iam 100% positive, ive seen all the shows. The defiant was in orbit of a gas giant and hid in the cloads when it got hit by jem hadar. The dmg to the hull let in posionous gas that nearly killed some of the crew.

They rigged a probe to act as a decoy and killed the jem hadar when they attacked the probe.

The year of hell was voyager in which a chroniton torpedo got lodged in the side and didnt detonate till a short while later which cause temporal issues with some of the crew mainly Kess.
Forgot about that episode, but as mentioned above, the type wasn't mentioned. Perhaps you associated the pink / purple with Polaron in the game?

Cryptic very could elaborate on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
I never really made the connection between 'em, since the chronitons (for some reason) slow the enemy rather than do what the temporal warheads in Year of Hell did, which was something akin to transphasics, but a lot more powerful.
Something that has bothered some Trek fans since Beta.

I guess since Transphasic Torpedoes were too similar to Chronitons, Cryptic decided to alter the time aspect from a phasing through shields to slowing time, thus the snare.

But when Har'Pengs got revamped, I personally suggested that they were like how canonical Chronitons would be like:
  • You have a Kinetic Impact that damage the shields
  • A hull impact with Radiation Damage
  • And a delayed explosion.
Just like what in the Year of Hell.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 989
# 22
08-21-2012, 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtoney3448 View Post
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Starship_Down_(episode)

It doesnt say what type of torpedo on the site but in the show it did. If it had a good pic you would be able to see a translucent type purple torpedo case lodged in part of the mess hall wall. The pic on the site isnt very good sadly.
They never said what type of Torpdeo the Jem'hadar used. But going by the visuals they used in space battles, It's very similar to Federation Quantum Torpedoes. So one can make a case that they are Quantum Torpedoes. And that's what I've always assumed that they are.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 523
# 23
08-21-2012, 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cusashorn View Post
A few months ago, I made the suggestion of a gravimetric torpedo creating a gravity well effect after watching through Voyager and noticing how often they used those to that very effect.

Responses were less than enthused.
Voyager Has gravy-wtchamagonnakallitthisday just about everything, but the gravimetric torpedo and mine are borg weapons, and the gravimetric part in the name refers to the propulsion of the weapons.





Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Polaron Torpedoes were never used in canon, but were in the Activision games such as Armada and SFC3.

Don't recall there beign "Phased Polaron Torpedoes", but there were Phased Plasma Torpedoes used in Bridge Commander.

So highly doubt Cryptic can use these without running into copyrights issues.



Could see Nanoprobe Torpedoes being used against Undine.

Gravimetric Torpedoes could be easily implemented in STO as Torpedoes with mini Gravity Wells, similar to the Shockwave Torpedoes.

Spatial Torpedoes: Could see this being more of a kinetic warhead with fast reload times. Or warheads with proximity explosives.

Antimatter Torpedo: (Similar to the Photon, but more explosive).

Stratospheric Torpedo: Launched from Planets.

Pulse Wave Torpedo: Used to counter Subspace Ruptures.


And there are others, even various types like Class 6 Photon Torpedoes, that were maximum yield explosives. Or illumination Torpedoes. So many other types of photon uses as well.
"Hey. Antimatter torpedos. Are Photon torpedoes not already using an AM/M reraction to create their destructive effect?"

What do you want to do, a torpedo only loaded with antimatter which will impact, convert some matter into kabloe which will expulse all the rest of the antimatter essentialy wasting your weapon?

"Stratospheric torpedo." So. are we flying battle planets now? And why would you need a dedicated weapon for that? Standard torpedos can do that on their own already. They do have impulse drive. And don't you dare bring up sorans rocket, that whole movie was a massive facepalm.


"spatial" torpedoes. spatial. Among the most infamous Non-words of trek history. And why would standard torpedoes not have proximity detonation functionality in the first place? Thats effing world war 1 territory of tech here.


"Pulse Wave Torpedo: Used to counter Subspace Ruptures."

Uh huh. Because we need those because the universe is full of said rupt oh wait it isn't.
Unless you add isolytik warheads, that upon detonation rip subspace a new gaping ... slit which will actively chase and instant kill random targets....

As for your type 6 torpedo: There are probably dozens of types. like we have dozens of missiles types today. probably differ in warhead/propulsion/penaid details....



I think the first thing that should be done is to remove the weird relatinos between weapon types.
So an energy weapon will **** shields and hull equally well (and yes the difference is virtually non existing) but our torpedoes, which carry am/m warheads won't do jack against shields and magically conjure up extra hull killing power?


Yes how about we get trid of that nonsense first?
Let torpedoes do their listed damage regardless of what they hit. shields or hull should not matter.


Then properly do the torpedoes right: transphasics get the ability to ignore part of the targets damage mitigation (because what trasphasics did in voyager was: being unadaptable to. You know. the thing you need fighting the borg. a weapon they cant adapt to. because its using a warheads that create all sorts of exotic particles and radiation, many of wich should probably not even exist as far as physics are concerned. try to adapt to sthings that should not be possible in the first place....) while chronitons get the shield ingore. Because chronitons do not mean, in trek context, that the ship suddenly becomes heavier, slower and more cumbersome. That would be done by GRAVITONS, the resident trek source of all matters of attraction.

The chroniton "term" in trek means: time-stuff. For the weapon specifically it means: the torpedo is in a temporal flow, like the krenim weaponship the torpedo cannot be interacted with in any meaningful way by outside sources since there is a barrier of timeey-wimey-wobbly-stuff around it that blocks any interaction. Your shields do nothing because they cannot interact with the weapon.
the weapon then, after penetration of the defenses is achieved, detonates after slipping out of the time flow.



After that:

'We do not need new tiorpedo types. We need different LAUNCHERS that change the firing patterns!'

Wanna fit one of those galaxy class rapid fire tubes which come at the cost of energy requirements for the preloading sequence??
Or the more classy but more commonly seen "5 rounds rapid" launcher? which fires shorter burts more fequently?

High velocity launchers that have incereased loading time and energy cost but fire the torpedo faster and with a damage bonus and at 20 km range?



and.. and.. and....



A torpedo is a straight forward thing: missile that goes boom. Do not shoehorn other functions onto that (shoehorn those things unto probes instead).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 247
# 24
08-22-2012, 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aarons8 View Post
um being the escort with dps you should be taking the probes.. a cruiser cant always kill them in time when you get 3 or 4.
Euh...actually, you can.
Don't fall for the fake advertising: Guild Wars 2 is a WoW clone and a poor one too.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 25
08-22-2012, 12:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reynoldsxd View Post
Voyager Has gravy-wtchamagonnakallitthisday just about everything, but the gravimetric torpedo and mine are borg weapons, and the gravimetric part in the name refers to the propulsion of the weapons.
There is nothing in canon that states Borg used Gravimetric Torpedoes.

You are getting that information from Starfleet Command 3, which is not canon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reynoldsxd View Post
"Hey. Antimatter torpedos. Are Photon torpedoes not already using an AM/M reraction to create their destructive effect?"


What do you want to do, a torpedo only loaded with antimatter which will impact, convert some matter into kabloe which will expulse all the rest of the antimatter essentialy wasting your weapon?


"Stratospheric torpedo." So. are we flying battle planets now? And why would you need a dedicated weapon for that? Standard torpedos can do that on their own already. They do have impulse drive. And don't you dare bring up sorans rocket, that whole movie was a massive facepalm.


"spatial" torpedoes. spatial. Among the most infamous Non-words of trek history. And why would standard torpedoes not have proximity detonation functionality in the first place? Thats effing world war 1 territory of tech here.



"Pulse Wave Torpedo: Used to counter Subspace Ruptures."

Uh huh. Because we need those because the universe is full of said rupt oh wait it isn't.

Unless you add isolytik warheads, that upon detonation rip subspace a new gaping ... slit which will actively chase and instant kill random targets....


As for your type 6 torpedo: There are probably dozens of types. like we have dozens of missiles types today. probably differ in warhead/propulsion/penaid details....




I think the first thing that should be done is to remove the weird relatinos between weapon types.

So an energy weapon will **** shields and hull equally well (and yes the difference is virtually non existing) but our torpedoes, which carry am/m warheads won't do jack against shields and magically conjure up extra hull killing power?


Yes how about we get trid of that nonsense first?
Let torpedoes do their listed damage regardless of what they hit. shields or hull should not matter.


Then properly do the torpedoes right: transphasics get the ability to ignore part of the targets damage mitigation (because what trasphasics did in voyager was: being unadaptable to. You know. the thing you need fighting the borg. a weapon they cant adapt to. because its using a warheads that create all sorts of exotic particles and radiation, many of wich should probably not even exist as far as physics are concerned. try to adapt to sthings that should not be possible in the first place....) while chronitons get the shield ingore. Because chronitons do not mean, in trek context, that the ship suddenly becomes heavier, slower and more cumbersome. That would be done by GRAVITONS, the resident trek source of all matters of attraction.

The chroniton "term" in trek means: time-stuff. For the weapon specifically it means: the torpedo is in a temporal flow, like the krenim weaponship the torpedo cannot be interacted with in any meaningful way by outside sources since there is a barrier of timeey-wimey-wobbly-stuff around it that blocks any interaction. Your shields do nothing because they cannot interact with the weapon.
the weapon then, after penetration of the defenses is achieved, detonates after slipping out of the time flow.



After that:

'We do not need new tiorpedo types. We need different LAUNCHERS that change the firing patterns!'

Wanna fit one of those galaxy class rapid fire tubes which come at the cost of energy requirements for the preloading sequence??
Or the more classy but more commonly seen "5 rounds rapid" launcher? which fires shorter burts more fequently?

High velocity launchers that have incereased loading time and energy cost but fire the torpedo faster and with a damage bonus and at 20 km range?



and.. and.. and....



A torpedo is a straight forward thing: missile that goes boom. Do not shoehorn other functions onto that (shoehorn those things unto probes instead).
If you don't like what was mentioned in Star Trek, then I think you might want to find another game since this game is mainly built on Star Trek canon.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,103
# 26
08-22-2012, 01:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reynoldsxd View Post
Voyager Has gravy-wtchamagonnakallitthisday just about everything, but the gravimetric torpedo and mine are borg weapons, and the gravimetric part in the name refers to the propulsion of the weapons.
"Hey. Antimatter torpedos. Are Photon torpedoes not already using an AM/M reraction to create their destructive effect?"

What do you want to do, a torpedo only loaded with antimatter which will impact, convert some matter into kabloe which will expulse all the rest of the antimatter essentialy wasting your weapon?

"Stratospheric torpedo." So. are we flying battle planets now? And why would you need a dedicated weapon for that? Standard torpedos can do that on their own already. They do have impulse drive. And don't you dare bring up sorans rocket, that whole movie was a massive facepalm.


"spatial" torpedoes. spatial. Among the most infamous Non-words of trek history. And why would standard torpedoes not have proximity detonation functionality in the first place? Thats effing world war 1 territory of tech here.


"Pulse Wave Torpedo: Used to counter Subspace Ruptures."

Uh huh. Because we need those because the universe is full of said rupt oh wait it isn't.
Unless you add isolytik warheads, that upon detonation rip subspace a new gaping ... slit which will actively chase and instant kill random targets....

As for your type 6 torpedo: There are probably dozens of types. like we have dozens of missiles types today. probably differ in warhead/propulsion/penaid details....



I think the first thing that should be done is to remove the weird relatinos between weapon types.
So an energy weapon will **** shields and hull equally well (and yes the difference is virtually non existing) but our torpedoes, which carry am/m warheads won't do jack against shields and magically conjure up extra hull killing power?


Yes how about we get trid of that nonsense first?
Let torpedoes do their listed damage regardless of what they hit. shields or hull should not matter.


Then properly do the torpedoes right: transphasics get the ability to ignore part of the targets damage mitigation (because what trasphasics did in voyager was: being unadaptable to. You know. the thing you need fighting the borg. a weapon they cant adapt to. because its using a warheads that create all sorts of exotic particles and radiation, many of wich should probably not even exist as far as physics are concerned. try to adapt to sthings that should not be possible in the first place....) while chronitons get the shield ingore. Because chronitons do not mean, in trek context, that the ship suddenly becomes heavier, slower and more cumbersome. That would be done by GRAVITONS, the resident trek source of all matters of attraction.

The chroniton "term" in trek means: time-stuff. For the weapon specifically it means: the torpedo is in a temporal flow, like the krenim weaponship the torpedo cannot be interacted with in any meaningful way by outside sources since there is a barrier of timeey-wimey-wobbly-stuff around it that blocks any interaction. Your shields do nothing because they cannot interact with the weapon.
the weapon then, after penetration of the defenses is achieved, detonates after slipping out of the time flow.



After that:

'We do not need new tiorpedo types. We need different LAUNCHERS that change the firing patterns!'

Wanna fit one of those galaxy class rapid fire tubes which come at the cost of energy requirements for the preloading sequence??
Or the more classy but more commonly seen "5 rounds rapid" launcher? which fires shorter burts more fequently?

High velocity launchers that have incereased loading time and energy cost but fire the torpedo faster and with a damage bonus and at 20 km range?



and.. and.. and....



A torpedo is a straight forward thing: missile that goes boom. Do not shoehorn other functions onto that (shoehorn those things unto probes instead).
This only gets sillier the more I read it. -_-
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 347
# 27
08-22-2012, 02:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtoney3448 View Post
If a T5 cruiser cant kill probe spawns they need to L2P badly. Ive never once let a probe through in all my runs in any STF. EWP3 + FAW = dead probes.
Have to agree - and if you're cruiser that has an lt. Cmdr tac slot (D'Kora and I believe the Regent does as well) you can slip APB2 in as well in case you need some overkill. I've done this countless times and never had one get in any threatening distance near the gate.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,046
# 28
08-22-2012, 02:46 AM
Interesting discussion....but I'm gonna bypass it since I want to use my head for a little while today.

Anyway I like the general idea and I'd like to add at least something:

what I'd like to see would be "Photon/Plasma Hybrid Torpedoes".
Actually I think those owuld be closer to what we've seen the Romulans use on DS9.
The plasma weapon we've seen in TOS was basically a pure energy weapon.
It was called a plasma energy weapon on screen and the Romulan commander was even concerned with the fuel it took to arm it.
So my guess is it was basically reactor material thrown at the enemy at FTL speed.

On DS9 in Season 7 "Image in the Sand" Odo told Kira the Romulans were stockpiling Plasma Torpedoes.
How do you stockpile blobs of energy?
My guess is the Romulans of the TNG era were actually using solid-case Plasma Torpedoes.
Those are still missing in STO.
They'd probably work in a fashion similar to Photon Torpeodes, a weapon system they probably got from the Klingons along wiht their D7 battlecruisers.
The difference would be that instead of a matter-antimatter warhead they'd contain the reactor matter the Romulans used to throw at the enemy directly.
Cosmetically this would be easy to achieve: green Photon Torpeodes.

What do you guys think?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,046
# 29
08-24-2012, 04:39 AM
Was it such a horrible idea?
Reply

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