Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,522
# 171
08-26-2012, 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tick0 View Post
So, guys, what is your solution and how do you plan to implement it?
hack 10k hitpoints off it, lower its shield mod to .85 and its good. it can be the fastest, most maneuverable, heaviest damage dealer, but its got to pay for it by being as fragile as it was in canon. it still makes the bop look like a joke in comparison, but at least it has more in common with it
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 217
# 172
08-26-2012, 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
hack 10k hitpoints off it, lower its shield mod to .85 and its good. it can be the fastest, most maneuverable, heaviest damage dealer, but its got to pay for it by being as fragile as it was in canon. it still makes the bop look like a joke in comparison, but at least it has more in common with it
Ok, and as for the second part of my question - how do you plan to implement it?

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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 70
# 173
08-26-2012, 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
hack 10k hitpoints off it, lower its shield mod to .85 and its good. it can be the fastest, most maneuverable, heaviest damage dealer, but its got to pay for it by being as fragile as it was in canon. it still makes the bop look like a joke in comparison, but at least it has more in common with it
And how do you plan on implementing it? Surely Cryptic aren't going to listen to you...

Why on earth would they nerf the ship after all this time?

Unless you can get every bug ship user to stop commanding or captaining their ship, I think all this whining isn't doing anything for the 'problem.'

I have a FPEscort and it's awesome. I've killed plenty of Jems with it.

I really don't think complaining about something that you can't change is very productive...
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 608
# 174
08-26-2012, 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
hack 10k hitpoints off it, lower its shield mod to .85 and its good. it can be the fastest, most maneuverable, heaviest damage dealer, but its got to pay for it by being as fragile as it was in canon. it still makes the bop look like a joke in comparison, but at least it has more in common with it
Yeah, you care about game balance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
*cropped off exaggerated parts*

Now tell me, why does it get to be better than even the Fleet ships, fedside, let alone those sorry excuse for Fleet Ships the KDF get in their Escort and BOP Classes. Because you "ground your ass off" for it? Tell me, what do you think we're doing for our Fleet Ships? Sitting around with our thumbs up our collective ass? We're shoveling doffs, dilithium, skill points, EC, having to play PvE into the grinder known as the starbase. For what so people that either opened their wallet, or allegedly "ground their ass off" can still be better.
Yes, because, KDF can't have Jem'hadar Attack Ships O.O

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Last edited by mewi; 08-26-2012 at 05:03 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 608
# 175
08-26-2012, 05:03 PM
Darn Double Post I can't delete T.T

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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 33
# 176
08-26-2012, 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mewi View Post
Yeah, you care about game balance.



Yes, because, KDF can't have Jem'hadar Attack Ships O.O
To play devil's advocate

How does the suggestion Drunk made not balance the ship? This answer also has to be more detailed then "It might allow me to be killed more."

and for the second part, that is a red herring. It has never been in contention that KDF can't get the ship. But it also makes no sense to talk about alternatives to the bug as if the KDF has access to Fed Fleet ships. As such each side has other alternatives, and compared to the Feds the alternatives on the KDF side are sorely lacking.
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Posts: 608
# 177
08-26-2012, 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanelme View Post
To play devil's advocate

How does the suggestion Drunk made not balance the ship? This answer also has to be more detailed then "It might allow me to be killed more."

and for the second part, that is a red herring. It has never been in contention that KDF can't get the ship. But it also makes no sense to talk about alternatives to the bug as if the KDF has access to Fed Fleet ships. As such each side has other alternatives, and compared to the Feds the alternatives on the KDF side are sorely lacking.
I'll sum up this with, does the Attack Ship have a Battle Cloak?

The Attack Ship is/was equally available for both sides, the amount of players is irrelevant as the KDF faction, no matter how hard it tries, will always have less than the federation side. More Defiants, Less BoPs, More Cat Carriers, less Shrimp Boats, and so on.

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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,326
# 178
08-26-2012, 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
he can claim its more durable because it can slot more shield hp consoles but no, the superior movement will do a better job keeping it alive.
She can claim in this case and indeed Dodging and reducing damage > Shield or Hull HP. Also with more Eng Consoles you get more Resistance and if your resists are high enough then it can be a nightmare to kill you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mewi View Post
Shield and Hull difference is nill.

The Engineering Consoles are exactly the same, the science console and tact consoles are different by 1.

The BOFF layout is exactly what is needed "worse"

The difference in Hull and Shield may be minor but when you factor in the enormous speed and turn rate difference even a little difference becomes a lot of difference especially when you also add in that Engineering console which grants more resistance to that little bit of extra Hull.

Consoles:

Bug| T: 5, E: 4, S: 1
FE| T: 4, E: 3, S: 2

They are not the same.


The Bug has 2 Universal Lt. Boffs whereas the Fleet Escort is stuck with its setup. You can argue that the Fleet Escort's setup is ideal anyway but the flexibility of the Bug is a boon. There is a reason people love the Bird of Prey.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
I have to agree with dontdrunk to an extent... I don't know the exact numbers or what it is about the Jem that makes it hit so hard... the total numbers I can understand, it's just naturally going to get a lot more time on target than anything else. But apparently that fifth Tac is doing something, because without even really trying a JHAS alpha shreds through shields like they're butter. Let's say it's another ~26% purplaron... that's what, ~40 more dmg per volley? Nothing to sneeze at but I'm still not sure why it makes so much of a difference.

I tried one on Tribble a while back and even with a terrible loadout (I had blue APs... lol) I was still a little god of death. IDK.
I suspect part of it is Polarons. Yes, that 5th console does add a very noticeable damage boost, which I enjoy on my Bortasqu', but the Jemmy Set also adds more damage ontop of that and what most forget is that when Polarons are eating your shield Power the Resistance and Regeneration of those shields goes down. My Bird of Prey uses a Polaron setup and I can rip away most anyone's shields as long as no one is using Extend Shields on them because I can quickly bleed off all their Resistance and Regen and then dealing enough damage to wipe out a facing or 4 is rather easy. The Bug can do this even better and deal significantly more damage while it is at it.


@ghostyandfrosty I find myself unable to disagree with you in any fashion really. Well said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tick0 View Post
So, guys, what is your solution and how do you plan to implement it?
I am with Don'tdrunk as to a solution and the Devs would have to implement it. It is all just a pipe dream however as it will not be fixed. Their real "Solution" will be to eventually release something in an up coming Lock Box that is even more blatantly OP then the Bug and make it even harder to obtain.

For my part, I do not really care that much either way about what does or does not become of the Bug. My only issue is that people do not smugly sit back and rest in the mistaken belief that the Bug is somehow on-par with other ships of its class. If you use it and are awesome with it then you ARE benefiting from the fact that it is blatantly superior to every other ship in its class. You may also be a very skilled pilot but do not presume that your ship is having no effect on your success. That would be the same as suggesting that one man armed with a Blunderbus and another with a Mordern Auto-Shotgun are basically equal and that their equipment will not factor in to how well they can kill things. It is an argument that simply flies in the face of all logic.

As for myself, I will gladly eat my own medicine here when it comes to my Odyssey. I consider myself a very skilled pilot but that thing is a true beast and I do not do the things I do with that ship simply because I am some kind of Unbelievably awesome, I do those things because I am skilled and my Ship is immensely powerful. After all it also clearly dominates all other ships in its class much like the Bug does. (Though Canonically it does have a MUCH better reason for doing that.)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 217
# 179
08-26-2012, 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hasukurobi View Post
It is all just a pipe dream however as it will not be fixed.
There we go.

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Starfleet Veteran
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Posts: 608
# 180
08-26-2012, 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hasukurobi View Post
She can claim in this case and indeed Dodging and reducing damage > Shield or Hull HP. Also with more Eng Consoles you get more Resistance and if your resists are high enough then it can be a nightmare to kill you.
I'd like to see you prove that, more speed = more shield/hull as a number rather than a miss, mathematically.

So if I have more speed, I have more defense, now I have 2.0 shield modifier, and 50% hull improvement? Shame that doesn't actually make sense, you need to treat the two separately as the game does in fact do. There are all kinds of variables to take into account when equating defense and speed.

Also, this is a discussion thread between Fleet Patrol Escort and Attack Ship, not Fleet Escort and Attack Ship. The Fleet Patrol Escort and Attack Ship have the same amount of engineering consoles. Also you are wrong, the Fleet Escort also has 4 Engineering Consoles.

Comparing a not [Fleet] Branded ship with other [Fleet] branded or lockbox ships, isn't very wise.

By the way the Fleet Escort ALSO has exactly what is needed for a boff layout and so doe the escort retro :3 I still can't see what is so great about Fleet Escort Retro though.

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