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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 251
08-28-2012, 12:59 PM
lets all get real though... no amount of QQ is going to change it. Doing so would effect any future sales of lockbox items... I am not saying Cryptic has a ton of trust... but changing specs on ships people dropped a ton of real life $ on would not go over well.

Its a lockbox ship and this is a F2P game based on the policy that Slightly out of balance = Money in our pockets.

I have come to terms with the fact that this game is F2P... we can debate the advantages of a perfect balance system... and a perfectly imbalanced system.

This game started its life with devs going for the perfect balance system...

It was bought by a company that has almost perfected, and really has created the template for how to monetize a perfectly imbalanced system to create income on a game they give away.

There will be no more... this ship has this so this ship looses this stuff...

EVERY SINGLE lock box ship at this point is going to be BETTER plain out... in almost every way. To at least a degree. I point out the multi role because it seems to be less obvious to some on the cruisers and the sci ships.... (but make no mistake they where desgined to be BETTER then the other ships... some even got special weapons that where also designed ot be better)

Make no mistake future lockbox escorts will continue to be better then any zen store or in game grind aquire ship.

The questions you need to ask yourselves at this point...

Can I cope with and still enjoy this game knowing that its now a Perfectly Imbalance concept design... meaning there is likely always going to be a handful of ships and items that are plain better?

OR

Do I agree with the Perfect Imbalance system ?

I have asked myself both questions and I can say... that I am fine with the P2W as long as they don't go to far. (the bug is the closest to going over... but I don't think it does myself)
Yes I can live with the idea of perfect imbalance... in fact I think I argued for to much balance previously.

Really at this point I fly my bug when I feel like it... and honestly I don't think its much better then the 11 or so other combos I have on my other toons... can't wait to see how crazy the next lockbox ship will be. :> lol
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,541
# 252
08-28-2012, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueprom3theus View Post
Dontdrunk, the fleet defiant is very close. In fact, with cloak, may be even worse than the bug, despite a not so good turning rate (which with skills and good equipment/abilities - turn console, aux to id, etc will compensate the bug turn rate easily). I think your point applies also to fleet mvam, 4 sci consoles on an escort doesn't make mvam a bad alternative either. What I'm saying is that the game evolves to superior ships, where bug gets the advantage of better impulse and better turn (all other are really not so important IMO), which is indeed an advantage, but any new fleet ship is greatly superior to old alternatives. I do believe that only a very skilled pilot can beat you in a bug, and also maybe that pilot wouldn't be able to do that (or it would be much harder to do it) on an old escort. In few months, when everybody will have access to new ships, I'm sure we will see more defeated bugs than we see now.
in case it wasn't clear, im not anymore happy that those things exist too. thats all fine and good that there will be ships that can more easily fight the bug on its own level, but that just means everyone else will that much more commonly terrorized by escorts with over the top firepower. the game is not in a better place with the more bug level ships there are.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thishorizon View Post
with all of these talented players posting here, i am continually baffled at the the continued attention to vilify this ship.

its the pilot guys. bugs can be killed, just like any other escort. right in between the tac team cycle. i kill bugs daily.....both in my defiant, and in my bug. (and now in my bleedthru bop)

here is a link to a video by my good friend zorena, its me in my defiant against regulus in his bug. regulus is a well respected pilot from lag industries. not one of us here would hesistate calling him our peer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSMPhsVkJNY&feature=plcp

with the proper gameplan and timing, any ship can be defeated in 1v1, and its even easier to do in 5v5 because of all the added variables.

have fun kill bad guys
you completely took away his ability to turn with those mines, and thus his ability to fight. beyond skill, stats and everything else, that factor won that fight. plus his build didn't seem great, i couldn't even tell if he had a single copy of omega. and torpedoes? lol for killing noobs quickest maybe, but not in an escort duel, not ever. regardless of the skill you 2 had your build shut his ability to do anything down, he was just flying a nondescript ball of hitpoints at that points. his damage score was half of what yours was, his forward weapons were cold 80% of that fight. and judging by the healing did he even have borg set or distro doffs?

last time i took my raptor for a spin right before i got my ktinga, i did similar to a bug, killed it with a tractor beam and some crummy mkX chrono mines that a fleet support ship had dropped. equipped them for the lulz and they all but guaranteed escort duel victory. killed him a few times that match, he was understandably pissed. all you need to do is remove movement and any escort has the firepower to kill any other escort. does that make me think that the bug is fine the way it is because i could beat it in a raptor of all things? god no.

how an inferior bug build fares against a superior any other escort build is no litmus test, the bug still terrorizes any other non escort in an unparalleled fashion, with its stats its the only escort a cruiser cant out attrition without SIGNIFICANT effort since it basically has the same hitpoints as most cruisers and twice the firepower or more. against a non escort a bug can easily have a 90% on target forward gun up time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
Ditto for the Sci ships... One lock box sci ship... gets A Commander Sci... A Lt. Commander Eng... and a Universal Lt. Commander to go with... 3 Tac units with no real cost... sure we could say ya but the turn... but really there is only 1 sci that really out turns it... the rest are either very slightly better or worse.... Yet we don't complain about it do we... I guess perhaps in 10 months when the few left in the system go for 300 mil there may be a small number of sci guys that don't have one that will bring it up.
the other lockbox ships are nothing like the bug. with the galor and dkora, their enhancements are to their secondary focus, damage. support and survivability are their primary focus, that was dipped into to give them more offense. they are some of the more ineffective ships at doing what a cruiser is supposed to do, they are just kinda fun to kirk around in.

the tholian ships for what ever reason were given the tools to be the best science based support ships possible, with the absolutely ideal station configurations for that goal. or they can science really well, but science is kind of lame currently.

then theres the bug. was its non primary role enhanced just like all the other lockbox ships? hell no, they took every stat that effects its ability to do its primary roll, and buffed it up to 11, or 15, wile at the same time they buffed its defense to inappropriate levels. everything else fits fine within perfect imbalance, and that makes it interesting. the bug is beyond that, and drains the fun out of every match it participates in when allowed to run wild.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 253
08-28-2012, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
in case it wasn't clear, im not anymore happy that those things exist too. thats all fine and good that there will be ships that can more easily fight the bug on its own level, but that just means everyone else will that much more commonly terrorized by escorts with over the top firepower. the game is not in a better place with the more bug level ships there are.
...
then theres the bug. was its non primary role enhanced just like all the other lockbox ships? hell no, they took every stat that effects its ability to do its primary roll, and buffed it up to 11, or 15, wile at the same time they buffed its defense to inappropriate levels. everything else fits fine within perfect imbalance, and that makes it interesting. the bug is beyond that, and drains the fun out of every match it participates in when allowed to run wild.
Just want to say kudos to everything you said. All very true.

There have been matches when my Jemmy has been stopped in it's tracks and I'm left with the puzzled expression on my face like a cat that's just had it's catnip removed.

On a side note, I'm a bit dismayed at the level of grief that gets opened up against that ship in arena or C&H. People take things way to personally and sometimes feels like the Jemmy becomes the ONLY target.

Jemmy + good healer = invincibility. Without a doubt.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 254
08-28-2012, 02:01 PM
This is still going on after TWENTY SIX PAGES? The BUG is OP, we know this. It's been said by everyone in and out of the game and on these forums since it's inception. This has been discussed to exaustion. You all know the BUG isn't going to be nerfed. Why would it? People don't tend to buy stuff thats less capable then what could be gained from normal play.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 255
08-28-2012, 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquitaine985 View Post
This is still going on after TWENTY SIX PAGES? The BUG is OP, we know this. It's been said by everyone in and out of the game and on these forums since it's inception. This has been discussed to exaustion. You all know the BUG isn't going to be nerfed. Why would it? People don't tend to buy stuff thats less capable then what could be gained from normal play.
The End
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 269
# 256
08-28-2012, 02:07 PM
Not to hijack, but if anyone should need a Fleet Defiant let me know.

I'm selling them....cheap. PM me in-game.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 471
# 257
08-28-2012, 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post
lets all get real though... no amount of QQ is going to change it. Doing so would effect any future sales of lockbox items... I am not saying Cryptic has a ton of trust... but changing specs on ships people dropped a ton of real life $ on would not go over well.

Its a lockbox ship and this is a F2P game based on the policy that Slightly out of balance = Money in our pockets.

I have come to terms with the fact that this game is F2P... we can debate the advantages of a perfect balance system... and a perfectly imbalanced system.

This game started its life with devs going for the perfect balance system...

It was bought by a company that has almost perfected, and really has created the template for how to monetize a perfectly imbalanced system to create income on a game they give away.

There will be no more... this ship has this so this ship looses this stuff...

EVERY SINGLE lock box ship at this point is going to be BETTER plain out... in almost every way. To at least a degree. I point out the multi role because it seems to be less obvious to some on the cruisers and the sci ships.... (but make no mistake they where desgined to be BETTER then the other ships... some even got special weapons that where also designed ot be better)

Make no mistake future lockbox escorts will continue to be better then any zen store or in game grind aquire ship.

The questions you need to ask yourselves at this point...

Can I cope with and still enjoy this game knowing that its now a Perfectly Imbalance concept design... meaning there is likely always going to be a handful of ships and items that are plain better?

OR

Do I agree with the Perfect Imbalance system ?

I have asked myself both questions and I can say... that I am fine with the P2W as long as they don't go to far. (the bug is the closest to going over... but I don't think it does myself)
Yes I can live with the idea of perfect imbalance... in fact I think I argued for to much balance previously.

Really at this point I fly my bug when I feel like it... and honestly I don't think its much better then the 11 or so other combos I have on my other toons... can't wait to see how crazy the next lockbox ship will be. :> lol
Perfectly imbalanced does not mean better so you'll drop tons of real life cash for it.

Perfectly imbalanced means it looks OP till you figure out what it is weak against then that becomes the new flavor of the month. This way the meta game always evolves just on the merit of what paper, scissor or rock beats what that month. In other words there is always a way to work the curve.

The bug has so many advantages and so few drawbacks that for the foreseeable future nothing will beat it till them come out with a new escort lockbox. That my friend is not perfect imbalance.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
They taste the same.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 608
# 258
08-28-2012, 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
Are you drunk? I bet you're just a faceroller that does 'well" in kerrat. You got nothin on me kiddo.
PvP 1v1, before you type, please. Until then, I recommend questioning your reasoning behind "You suck because I never PvPd you"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
Actually yes. I do. You act like we don't know how to do math. Or that some how we don't have access to stats.
Yes you did the "math" for an older ship, not bothering to compare it to the new fleet advanced escort which comes with a better shield modifier, or considered what mode said ship was even in.

Furthermore I think my post clearly pointed out the nill difference between shields and hull here, yet you glorify those minor numbers as some kind of game breaking mechanic. FURTHERMORE, Field Generators? Really? ~

| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 566
# 259
08-28-2012, 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mewi View Post
PvP 1v1, before you type, please. Until then, I recommend questioning your reasoning behind "You suck because I never PvPd you"



Yes you did the "math" for an older ship, not bothering to compare it to the new fleet advanced escort which comes with a better shield modifier, or considered what mode said ship was even in.

Furthermore I think my post clearly pointed out the nill difference between shields and hull here, yet you glorify those minor numbers as some kind of game breaking mechanic. FURTHERMORE, Field Generators? Really? ~
Make sure you guys get a video with the skirmish and post it. I wanna see it. So what's gonna be, bug vs ... Or fleet patrol vs ...?
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 608
# 260
08-28-2012, 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueprom3theus View Post
Make sure you guys get a video with the skirmish and post it. I wanna see it. So what's gonna be, bug vs ... Or fleet patrol vs ...?
Wish I had fleet patrol, it is beautiful :3 The screenshot was taken from a fleet patrol from tribble ;O But I'm not going to hold my breath either way.

| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
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