Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 257
# 31
10-05-2012, 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by intrinsical View Post
This is wrong. I have tested this many times and can confirm that Donatra will only cloak if the ship with the highest aggro is less than 5km from her.

It is very clear that Donatra is designed to be tanked by a ship with high Threat Control staying at the 5-10km range with the other ships pounding on the ship from the rear. I have done this multiple times in a cruiser tank build and she has never cloaked even with 4 tactical escorts blasting away with their full arsenal.

i agree with this, i have a tank with threat control, and have experienced the results exactly as stated above. the key that i find alot of pug tanks miss, is the threat control, making them essentially useless, which amuses me, as threat control not only makes you a higher priority target but also gives a damage resistance bonus too, therefore making you tankier. but i guess most of you know this and i'm just babbling now. But yeah, agreed it's the person with the agro that needs to stay away, everyone else can get as close as they like. I would like to add tho, it does seem, on the rare occasion, after she has fired her torpedo volley she will cloak, regardless of player position, so i find it's just best to stay over 10km away, laying tricobalts on dispersal pattern alpha to keep her interested.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 32
10-05-2012, 10:51 AM
Another thing to note about Donatra is she tends to have tunnel vision, esp on Elites. I have had games where I am in my AC with a squad of escorts that are doing great DPS (usually 5-8x mine), and I pick up aggro and NEVER lose it, despite these escorts beating the crap out of her. I mean, it's like she wants me dead or something. What usually ends up happening is she kills one or two of the escorts on the team (3 shotted hurts), and then comes after me, and NEVER drops aggro from me, or if she does, I just have to broadside her a few times and I get it back. And this is all without Threat Control. Not sure how that works, but as I said, it's like she gets tunnel vision. So I usually kite her at about 9k, takes the bite off of most of her weapons and gives me time to hit BFI if I see a torp spread coming.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 33
10-05-2012, 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jumpingjs View Post
I am refering to space When I am facing Donatra I have many "Anti-cloak" and one "Detect" cloak abilitys. They are:
Metron Gas
Eject Warp plasma
Grappler
Tachyon Detection Field
Ionized Gas Sensor

THEY DO NOT WORK what so ever
Can anyone or even a Dev etc explain why they lose thier purpose, I bought these things and I expect them to work
Thanks for your Time

Actually, they do work.

I know for a fact that the Tracking Torpedo DOES track Donatra while cloaked. A joke with my friends, I call it "Tinkerbell" as she goes wandering about until she hits.

While the gasses and grapler do not stop the cloaking, their effects such as snaring do stay on her.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 34
10-05-2012, 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Actually, they do work.

I know for a fact that the Tracking Torpedo DOES track Donatra while cloaked. A joke with my friends, I call it "Tinkerbell" as she goes wandering about until she hits.

While the gasses and grapler do not stop the cloaking, their effects such as snaring do stay on her.
I think his issue is the fact against normal enemies those abilities decloak them and let you start whaling on them again, whereas it does nothing against scimitar dreadnaughts (not just donatra, but ALL scimitars).

So I'll say what was said earlier. The Scimitar-class Dreadnaught has a PERFECT CLOAK. It leaves no emissions of any kind and has no weaknesses that the normal cloak does. So it won't be vulnerable to the stuff a normal cloak is.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,136
# 35
10-05-2012, 12:48 PM
I'm one of the people that ignore the 5k rule, as an escort that might as well mean just sit the fight out. If the multitude of cruisers don't have threat control speced that is their fault, not mine. If she does cloak I'll send my fighters after her, track her down and open fire on her preventing the healing. Without the healing and long cloaks the fight is faster than the 5k rule BS that bad players have created.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,379
# 36
10-05-2012, 01:20 PM
Tracking Donatra:

- Focus on Target
- Have fighters deployed (they will follow her... cloaked or not).
- Cloak seeking torps
- Get close to her (by using any of the above).
My name may say "PWE member", but I will never be.
-NEVER Forget the Screwups and ignorance made towards the people who supported the game through 2011
Don't look silly, don't call it "Zen-Store" - Don't waste devs time, Post proper bug-reports - I don't like Gekos
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 37
10-06-2012, 04:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicha0 View Post
I'm one of the people that ignore the 5k rule, as an escort that might as well mean just sit the fight out. If the multitude of cruisers don't have threat control speced that is their fault, not mine. If she does cloak I'll send my fighters after her, track her down and open fire on her preventing the healing. Without the healing and long cloaks the fight is faster than the 5k rule BS that bad players have created.
Let's examine that argument for a minute:

---------------------------------------------------

At 5k-6k distance, Beams dropoff to 84%-80% of their maximum damage (attainable at 0-1km), and Cannons to 72.5%-65%. Details of other distances can be found here.

If everyone else stays at a "safe distance" of 6km and you move into 1km, two things happen:

(i) Your Cannons inflict 50% extra relative damage: moving from 65% of their maximum output to 100% of their maximum output.
(ii) Your teammates who you "expect" to hold aggro over you now have to compete with you suddenly generating 50% extra threat.

The "Threat control" skill works by multplying the threat generation of your inflicted damage. If you were to sit at 1k distance to a foe, in order to hold aggro over you; a typical tank taking 6 ranks of threat control (for 184% threat generation) sitting at a distance of at 6k distance would need to inflict:

with Cannons: 1/(0.65*1.84) = over 84% of your damage output.
with Beams: 1/(0.8*1.84) = over 68% of your damage output.

I don't know how good a damage dealer you claim to be, but on PUGs the average Cruiser pilot isn't exactly optimised for damage output. And even if they WERE optimised, the extra Tactical BOFF abilities and Console slots available to your average Escort (never mind the differences in raw Damage output between beams/cannons and Dual Heavy Cannons, or factoring in Tactical Captain Buffs) make that a difficult figure to reach for your average Cruiser.

Therefore the problem is NOT your teammates being "bad players" if they lose aggro in such a scenario, the problem is that YOU are not adjusting your gameplay to a new type of enemy behaviour.

---------------------------------------------------

Finally, let's examine the benefits of your moving-into-1km-range choice:

Let's assume for the sake of argument that you've got a brilliant setup and can inflict twice the damage of anyone else on the team under normal circumstances:

Original Team damage output with everyone at @6km:
6*X Damage at 6km = 6*0.65 = 3.9

Team damage output with 4 teammates @6km and you @1km:
4*X Damage at 6km = 4*0.65 = 2.6
2*X Damage at 1km = 2*1.00 = 2
Total damage inflicted = 4.6


(realistically, with damage from abilities such as 'Gravity Well' and Fighters ignoring the distance limitation; I doubt you'd end up inflicting that much more damage than the average teammate... but let's stick with the "best case" scenario here)

So yes, damage inflicted goes up [by 1-(3.9/4.6) = 15.2%].

But as mentioned above, you have a high potential for your tank to lose aggro, meaning that Donatra will fire at you and cloak. If she spends longer that 15% of the duration of the fight cloaked (less than this in practice, due to her insane shield regeneration rate effectively reversing the damage inflicted on her) your team will end up killing her more slowly than if they'd just stuck to the "safe" keep-her-more-than-5km-away method.

TL; DR: Sticking to the 5k method is proven, reliable and at worst only lowers team damage output by 27.5% to 35%. One high-dps teammate closing to 0-1km is risky and does not drastically speed the fight up (best-case above: fight is sped up by 15.2% if the aforementioned teammate has ridiculously good DPS, the tank is insanely good and Donatra never cloaks).

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]

Last edited by maelwy5; 10-06-2012 at 04:34 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 38
10-06-2012, 04:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anazonda View Post
Tracking Donatra:

- Focus on Target
- Have fighters deployed (they will follow her... cloaked or not).
- Cloak seeking torps
- Get close to her (by using any of the above).

TBR as well.

It homes in on her nicely whilst cloaked, with a big pointy beacon of blue light.

But if you decide to take TBR, just be sure to run it at low AUX so you don't push her all round the map like some of the typical thick PUG teammates.

There've been several occasions where a team member has decided that pushing Donatra ~20km away is a wonderful idea. By the time the slow cruisers catch up to her, (i) she's recovered a good deal of health and (ii) she's probably diverted her attention to an Escort, fired at it (bonus points if it was one-shot) and recloaked.


[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 300
# 39
10-06-2012, 04:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by intrinsical View Post
This is wrong. I have tested this many times and can confirm that Donatra will only cloak if the ship with the highest aggro is less than 5km from her.

It is very clear that Donatra is designed to be tanked by a ship with high Threat Control staying at the 5-10km range with the other ships pounding on the ship from the rear. I have done this multiple times in a cruiser tank build and she has never cloaked even with 4 tactical escorts blasting away with their full arsenal.
This!
I have successfully followed this run like a rabbit approach with my ship in full aggro control and she never cloaks. Only once did I get too far away and an escort stole aggro from me and she cloaked.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,711
# 40
10-06-2012, 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashkrik23 View Post
If everyone stays back 5km she will not cloak at all.
That's one way of doing it. Generally only good if your team has extremely low DPS, otherwise get close behind her and blaze away. She'll cloak once in a while but so what? Unless you're doing very little damage her regeneration is negligible and will give your team a chance to repair and get CDs ready. Best of all it'll be an interesting fight instead of a long range tank and spank. Just be sure to constantly be racing behind her.... she's very squirrely for her size!
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:54 PM.