Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > Duty Officer System and R&D
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 453
# 31
08-27-2012, 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
... almost unlimited ressource (unlimited if you play smart)...
Enlighten us then. I have shown you several different scenarios where you logic and math is flawed. Break it down for us and show us and the devs how you get FCs to be an "almost unlimited resource" solely from using Fleet DOFFs.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 32
08-28-2012, 02:37 AM
Read the opening post, earning 20k cxp a day is easily doable. You can turn this cxp into FMs. If 10 people do that it's roughly 1500 fleetmarks a day for 15 minutes on the game.

Anyway, you guys are really into ad hominem attacks. Doffing isn't waiting like an idiot, it's choosing the right assignments once a day and then play for the rest of the evening if that's what you want.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 447
# 33
08-28-2012, 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
Read the opening post, earning 20k cxp a day is easily doable. You can turn this cxp into FMs. If 10 people do that it's roughly 1500 fleetmarks a day for 15 minutes on the game.
First off, you're changing the entire premise of your argument, which was division of labor between FAers grinding FMs and doffers working with doffs; now you are saying your supposed fleet is comprised almost entirely of doff specialists. So was your argument even fact-based to begin with? Or are you starting with an arbitrary claim you want to make, then working backwards trying to invent a reality in which your claims are true?

20k CXP a day takes way more than 15 minutes because to reach that volume you must either cherry-pick assignments or log on more than once per day.

Assuming you log on once per day and fill your log, each of the 18 assignments must generate at least 1100 CXP each (fleet assignments taking two slots to dump) which is not possible without flying around and doing a lot of cherry picking and forfeiting any non CXP reward assignments.

You are further assuming that all that would be done having logged on is fill the doff log. But according to your model, the player must also spend substantial time dofftwisting etc. So the daily time cost is much more than 15 minutes for this task plus much more than 15 minutes for the other tasks described, on the order of a few hours a day, which for a normal and well-balanced mainstream member of society (i.e., "has a life"), is the whole of their leisure time.

Even assuming you somehow got all this done in an hour, and even assuming you did all this with no external inputs, what you are describing is putting 100% of all your time and resources and game activity into the fleet system, completely precluding any progress in other areas such as gearing, PvE, PvP, doffing, EC/dil accrual, exploration, hell even socialization, without further inputs of time or $$$.

That you even think that such a scenario is acceptable or desirable starkly illuminates your possible motivations for posting.

As another poster pointed out, at best your time simply isn't worth anything (a most sad and unenviable condition), at worst you're relating what the devs and producers think, which would seem to be that the game should be so insanely grindy that players either have to spend all their leisure time playing it or spend massive cash on inputs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
Anyway, you guys are really into ad hominem attacks. Doffing isn't waiting like an idiot, it's choosing the right assignments once a day and then play for the rest of the evening if that's what you want.
Part of "not being an idiot" is having time management skills.

Making a nonsensical argument then being called on it doesn't mean others are making ad hominems, it means they're making a frank assessment of your time management and analytical skills and the low quality of your opinions and thought processes.

Or perhaps you're just invoking "ad hominem" (while insinuating the posters who disagree with you are "idiots") in an effort to be passive aggressive and instigate others into saying something like "well you ARE an idiot". Whatever the case may be, the factual and math-based approaches of other posters are not ad hominems merely because they reveal the absurd fallacy of your claims.

Last edited by aestu; 08-28-2012 at 04:16 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 75
# 34
08-28-2012, 04:18 AM
I too am curious where the OP is getting these 20k CXP per day assignments in 15 minutes. I just hit my first 110k this past weekend, granted it was in Development, so maybe the high return assignments aren't in this track. But I did my first commendation and immediately decided I was going to go for some more Development points to get some more FC's. That was two days ago. I'm now at 107k (including a Crit Success on Wilderness Training which gave 3000+ points on it's own). I log on twice a day (at least), in the morning for 15 minutes of doff'ing, then in the evenings for actual gameplay and some more doff'ing. So total, maybe 90 minutes to 2 hours a day and I'm only getting around 3-4 k in the Development track. I hit science 110k the following morning, but it's return on missions is even lower than Development. So please, someone, where are these quick high return missions at?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 447
# 35
08-28-2012, 04:24 AM
Also going to point out that hitting 20k CXP in 15m (or any sort of timely manner, or in only a day of assignments however many times one logs on) requires a large and diverse roster, making dofftwisting exceedingly difficult, annoying and inefficient because of the roster cap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadghost View Post
So please, someone, where are these quick high return missions at?
I find the best high-yield missions are to be found setting up listening posts in star clusters, doing military offensives, and getting high-yield resolve/telekinesis/gamma commodity assignments from the engineering and tactical officers.

Note that if you are out to farm CXP, the best assignments are those that take as many doffs as possible (pumping up the rarity bonus) or reward more than one type of CXP (a lot of star cluster assignments offer two or three types on a single assignment).

Even so, efficient CXP farming still requires a fair amount of flying around, and the yields the OP describes are beyond the realm of possibility. If he disagrees he can post an SS of his log.

Last edited by aestu; 08-28-2012 at 04:28 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 471
# 36
08-28-2012, 04:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post


This CXP can be turned into 390.000/75 = 5200 fleetmarks, which means 260.000 all new fleet credits we can enjou to milk more doffs.

I havent read this whole thread so apologies if this has been pointed out already.

Your maths is wrong.

390,000 CXP is turned in 10,000 at a time for 90 fleet marks (assuming bonus is used)

so its actually 39 x 90 marks which = 3510 fleet marks. A lot less than the 5200 you are claiming. Without the fleet mark bonus its only 2925 fleet marks.

Put that number into your plan and see if you still come out ahead. I doubt it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 75
# 37
08-28-2012, 05:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aestu View Post
I find the best high-yield missions are to be found setting up listening posts in star clusters, doing military offensives, and getting high-yield resolve/telekinesis/gamma commodity assignments from the engineering and tactical officers.
hmmm, but those seem like they involve a lot more than just logging on for 15 minutes, queuing up the cha-ching machine and then running off for a round of Dabo at Quarks, dangit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aestu View Post
Note that if you are out to farm CXP, ...
I am more into farming some fun. Our starbase is still a level 0.5 because we are all too busy trying on outfits and dancing around Qo'nos as Orion slave girls.

Good luck with the starbases, we'll see you at tier five in a couple of years.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,642
# 38
08-28-2012, 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
Read the opening post, earning 20k cxp a day is easily doable. You can turn this cxp into FMs. If 10 people do that it's roughly 1500 fleetmarks a day for 15 minutes on the game.

Anyway, you guys are really into ad hominem attacks. Doffing isn't waiting like an idiot, it's choosing the right assignments once a day and then play for the rest of the evening if that's what you want.
This I complete Bollocks - 20k in 15min of doffing total BS - I have 10 toon that I doff and it take me 30 min a day per toon to get the best assignments - 2x per day (5 hours)

I am a hard core doffer with with over 500 purples and 1500 blues - so I always have the right doff - I also have massive inventory of items especially rare stuff so medical and sci assignments that are 1300 each I pick up

I also pick up all the golds for the extra 50 dilth each - sure I get lot of CXP because I use purples and get extra bonus i will avg 700 CXP per x 30 per day = 21k but that is 1 hour per toon - but that will take at least 30 min a day with the best doffs for the assignment and finding the best assignments and often you have to search

and the biggest flaw in what you are saying is that 20k is spread out accros up to 11 departments

to get 10 k in 1 dept for the marks in a single day is almost impossible

yes I get big ones like a crit dev assignment I got almost 7k cxp but it is a 3 day
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 734
# 39
08-28-2012, 09:17 AM
The mistake with the OP is to assume that this scales with player base. Each starbase that's Tier 2 has generated similar amounts of Fleet Credits. It doesn't matter if its split between 1 player or 500. Many players are *not* going to use them on duty officers -- either they'd rather have 200,000 fleet credit ships, skill boosts, fleet mark boosts, or ultra rare Mk XII items.

Even if one was to use them for duty officers, you're facing nontrivial losses (so you can't just continue to make doffs from fleet credits you've already contributed indefinitely). In addition, having hundreds or thousands of duty officers means less and less with each stage of the starbase.

For example, to get 1000 Engineering XP:
At Tier 0: 12 common engineering, 12 common operations [24 white doffs]
At Tier 1: 25 common engineering, 25 common operations [50 white doffs]
At Tier 2: 60 common engineering, 60 common operations [120 white doffs]
At Tier 3: 60 uncommon engineering, 140 common operations [60 green doffs, 140 white doffs, or 60*5 + 140 = 440 white doffs equivalent]

This is per project (and completely ignores military and science)! So,
To get to Tier 1 upgrade (10,000 XP): 24*10 = 240 white doffs
(upgrade project is 24 white doffs for 1500 XP, starbase upgrade is 48 white doffs for 1500 XP) = 72 white doffs
To get to Tier 2 upgrade (25,000 XP): 50*12 = 600 white doffs
(upgrade project is 80 white doffs for 1500 XP, starbase upgrade is 180 white doffs for 1500 XP) = 260 white doffs
To get to Tier 3 upgrade (50,000 XP): 120*22 = 2640 white doffs
etc. etc.

The increasing costs are why this system needs to allow doffs that can be contributed and why they're priced fairly at 500 FC a piece.
Fleet holding costs | Accolade Points: 18745 (Fed Engineer), 16400 (KDF Tactical)
Subscribe to Accolade thread | Join channel Accolades | Idea: Mail Revamp
New on STOwiki: Spire projects | STO Timeline | Fed-KDF Disparity | upcoming content
Fed Fleet: Section 31 (level 20) | KDF Fleet: Klingon Intelligence (level 20)

Last edited by phyrexianhero; 08-28-2012 at 09:27 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,642
# 40
08-28-2012, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phyrexianhero View Post
The mistake with the OP is to assume that this scales with player base. Each starbase that's Tier 2 has generated similar amounts of Fleet Credits. It doesn't matter if its split between 1 player or 500. Many players are *not* going to use them on duty officers -- either they'd rather have 200,000 fleet credit ships, skill boosts, fleet mark boosts, or ultra rare Mk XII items.

Even if one was to use them for duty officers, you're facing nontrivial losses (so you can't just continue to make doffs from fleet credits you've already contributed indefinitely). In addition, having hundreds or thousands of duty officers means less and less with each stage of the starbase.

For example, to get 1000 Engineering XP:
At Tier 0: 12 common engineering, 12 common operations [24 white doffs]
At Tier 1: 25 common engineering, 25 common operations [50 white doffs]
At Tier 2: 60 common engineering, 60 common operations [120 white doffs]
At Tier 3: 60 uncommon engineering, 140 common operations [60 green doffs, 140 white doffs, or 60*5 + 140 = 440 white doffs equivalent]

This is per project! So,
To get to Tier 1 upgrade (10,000 XP): 24*10 = 240 white doffs
(upgrade project is 24 white doffs for 1500 XP, starbase upgrade is 48 white doffs for 1500 XP) = 72 white doffs
To get to Tier 2 upgrade (25,000 XP): 50*13 = 650 white doffs
(upgrade project is 80 white doffs for 1500 XP, starbase upgrade is 180 white doffs for 1500 XP) = 260 white doffs
To get to Tier 3 upgrade (50,000 XP): 120*22 = 2640 white doffs
etc. etc.

The increasing costs are why this system needs to allow doffs that can be contributed and why they're priced fairly at 500 FC a piece.
Not only this but no matter where you got your doffs - academy/packs etc - some sub-categories are very hard to come by - like security - it is set very low compared to all other categories. Cryptic does not seem to get the fact that the harder you make a game the more people GIVE UP
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:42 PM.