Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,441
# 21
08-26-2012, 12:41 AM
Serious face moment.

Looking at the screen shot he has:

Emergency Power to shields
Red matter
Torpedo Spread
Mystery Debuff
Plasmonic Leech
1x Tyken's Rift (Yes I'm sure, that's how the Debuff normally looks because it can't stack more then twice from a single Tyken's Rift)
700 Day vet Reward
Sensor Analysis Stacked Twice
And I believe Science Avaliability to Transwarp to Fleet Starbase

I Don't see any Polaron Procs on him. Nor do I see any Debuffs on the screen. But I do see 3 Polaron Beams coming possibly towards him. One may be originating from him?

The Mystery Proc Could be Polaron Procs, but I don't recall the Icon they use and it's possible they are Polaron Procs because the animation effect just might not be showing (The Purple Ring) Since the Tyken's Rift is also not in the screen shot. Or it could be that they Broke Plasmonic Leech again...?

All in all that's what I can tell based on what I'm seeing in the Screen shot. So either:
A: You have Nothing in Insulators which protects against Drains.
B: Fully Speced Flow Capacitors Tyken's 3 + Plasmonic Leech + Polarons are affecting you.
C: Something got broken that isn't showing on the bar.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 735
# 22
08-26-2012, 02:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
All in all that's what I can tell based on what I'm seeing in the Screen shot. So either:
A: You have Nothing in Insulators which protects against Drains. 6 points
B: Fully Speced Flow Capacitors Tyken's 3 + Plasmonic Leech + Polarons are affecting you.
C: Something got broken that isn't showing on the bar.
so if we assume maxed out, like I have it on my Kar'fi:
One Tykens3 - 15x2=30
One Leech - 8x2=16
One Polaron - 54

Is not enough, so we have to have double polaron proc, to get past my 122+25 aux. I might have been polaron procced and the proc just ended before i got my screenie, but I don't think so. The absence of many debuffs was just why I went for a screenie, and from desicion to capture it must have been one or two seconds.

EDIT: This is ofc based on the assumptions that drain resists are broken! If my 6 points in insulators would grant me 50% resist (made up number, don't know the real value), it would have to be like this:

Tykens -15
Leech -8
polaron -25 each

Wich means I would have to be hit with 5 polaron procs simultanously to get my aux from 122+25 to 0 :/

If that is possible, we need mechanics against polaron stacking!

Anyway, this was how my power levels looked most of the match. It was a 4-carrier+a bop KDF team. But I didn't see any siphon drones. Not that it would make any difference, unless we can get negative power values. :p

Last edited by dassemsto; 08-26-2012 at 06:07 AM.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 735
# 23
08-26-2012, 08:57 AM
Just did some testing on drains and resistances.

Test conditions:

Map: Cracked Planetoid
Attacker: Kar'fi piloted by sci captain
Spec: Maxed out in Flow cap and decompiler
Modifiers: 2x Flow cap consoles XI blue

Defender: Fed escort
First round: No points in power insulators
Second round: 6 points in power insulators

Attack types: Siphon Drones, Tykens 3, Polaron proc, Target subsystem.

Conclusions:

Resistance - Working as intended on everything EXCEPT siphon drones, who are not affected at all

Drones - Guaranteed lockdown regardless of power levels or power boosters. Resistance is futile

Tykens rift - When spawning multiple rifts, it can stack up to 6 times, bringing power all the way down to 0 even with 6 points resistance.


Polaron procs - lands really infrequent. even with 3 cannons, a turret and a DBB, it took about 30 seconds to get a proc. Subject to resistances. Seems to be working fine.

Target subsystem - working as it is supposed to.

Seems we have two issues that need looking into. Siphon Drones and stacking Tykens.

Raw video for referance/proof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHz8S...=youtube_gdata

Worth noting:
- even a single tykens pulled almost 70k at one point, from the 0 resistance ship.
- Plasmonic leach pulled 25 from all systems from the 0 resistance ship
- Plasmonic leach pulled 17 from all systems from the 6 resistance ship (a bit high, no?)
- polaron proc, against 6-resist, dipped the power levels -50 for a moment, then flattned out at -25 for the remainder of the duration

Last edited by dassemsto; 08-26-2012 at 09:08 AM.
Banned
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Posts: 846
# 24
08-26-2012, 09:05 AM
That's Six stacks, meaning 3 rifts.

That's hardly a balance issue.

The attitude of "I should never lose anything ever to sci" is exactly why shield drain is pathetic right now.

Sure if 3 ships blow their load, and keep you in the rifts, that means power loss. That's a 1 a minute ability, in the Cmdr Slot.
Also, EPTX and Batteries actually work on Tykens.
In addition to the fact that tykens by itself has no pull or means to keep a target there. To make a working Tyken build it has to be Dedicated.

VM1 is actually a much better bang for the buck option. (though its best imo combined with Tyken 3 and lolarons)

Unlike a stupid ass siphon pod build.
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# 25
08-26-2012, 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
That's Six stacks, meaning 3 rifts.

That's hardly a balance issue.

The attitude of "I should never lose anything ever to sci" is exactly why shield drain is pathetic right now.

Sure if 3 ships blow their load, and keep you in the rifts, that means power loss. That's a 1 a minute ability, in the Cmdr Slot.
Also, EPTX and Batteries actually work on Tykens.
In addition to the fact that tykens by itself has no pull or means to keep a target there. To make a working Tyken build it has to be Dedicated.

VM1 is actually a much better bang for the buck option. (though its best imo combined with Tyken 3 and lolarons)

Unlike a stupid ass siphon pod build.
hah! finally caught you in a blunder!

3 ships with Tykens will NOT make it stack above two. ONE ship with the tykens doff WILL do this when it spawns 3 rifts at once!

If it took 3 ships i'd say "not so bad", but from one ability spawned by one ship... and as a AoE... you know you can lock down a whole enemy team that way...
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# 26
08-26-2012, 09:13 AM
this happened to me in a game a few weeks ago. id be at full power when suddenly something would hit me and drain all 4 powers down to 0 for a couple seconds then they'd start to regen. i couldnt figure it out, but it happened multiple times that match.
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# 27
08-26-2012, 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
hah! finally caught you in a blunder!

3 ships with Tykens will NOT make it stack above two. ONE ship with the tykens doff WILL do this when it spawns 3 rifts at once!

If it took 3 ships i'd say "not so bad", but from one ability spawned by one ship... and as a AoE... you know you can lock down a whole enemy team that way...
Actually I already knew that. The odds of getting all 3 tyken stacks even with a purple, are fairly minimal my friend. You can't count on it as a viable strategy for a lone sci ship (or sci bop), to gaurantee the procs you need at least 2 ships with TR3 dropping the hammer. Especially given the time delay between each TR3 proc to occur. The target will invetibly have moved, or have been moved or eaten a battery between procs, in live pvp. Having used TR3 off and on for the last 2 years, it's still imo not as good as it was pre f2p. Back yen, I could rip someone's shields off with TR3, a sub nuc (to kill their EPTS) and a target shields 2. Now? you pray for doff procs, or take multiple ships with it and hope you can keep your target locked down to get the full power drain. Remember Tykens is also unmoving, unlike a siphon pod. So again you have to dedicate yourself fully to keeping a target pinned down and unleashing multiple tykens

I thought about explaining that in the previous post, but I figured you'd know that.

(I have a purp doff on my TR3 using recon. Yeah.. just getting 1 proc alone is Celebration Time. cause at least then the drain becomes noticable. the rare 2 procs , if they some how manage to hit the same ship is Yippy Skippy times)

Of course it's just amazing when 2 or 3 TR3 deployments each results in a proc, but that's kind of like getting multiple Super Overloads in a row. Why shouldn't it be devastating when it happens? It's so incredibly rare, made more so by the long CD of the ability itself. TR3 also is another reason people shouldn't be so scared of fielding torps on escorts. HY2 doesn't care about your silly tykens.

Hency my earlier statement about VM1 being a much better bang for buck skill when you have the doffs. It's not enemy location dependent once it's set free, it does pretty much as good of a job at shutting down DPS, and heals and a better job at stopping movement than does TR3 with doffs. TR3 is what you use after you've deployed your Vms so whatever isn't knocked offline is drained abit, so you can then further drain it with target 1s.

Last edited by ghostyandfrosty; 08-26-2012 at 09:34 AM.
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# 28
08-26-2012, 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
Actually I already knew that.

I thought about explaining that in the previous post, but I figured you'd know that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
Sure if 3 ships blow their load, and
^^

anyway, are you sure about those low odds? I use a blue doff, and even that one gives me one 25% one 20% and one 15% chance of a extra rift. I think that gives me a double tykens every second on third time I tyk.

For this test, I hit TYK3 two times. Once against no-res and once against 6-point-res. First time I got a normal tyken, the next time a triple tyken. Sure, two incidents is nothing to make statistics from, but it seems to proc quite often in matches.

Sure, it's nothing like the predictability of drones, but leaving the whole opposing team at 0 power a few times during a match is still quite... worrying...
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# 29
08-26-2012, 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
^^

anyway, are you sure about those low odds? I use a blue doff, and even that one gives me one 25% one 20% and one 15% chance of a extra rift. I think that gives me a double tykens every second on third time I tyk.

For this test, I hit TYK3 two times. Once against no-res and once against 6-point-res. First time I got a normal tyken, the next time a triple tyken. Sure, two incidents is nothing to make statistics from, but it seems to proc quite often in matches.

Sure, it's nothing like the predictability of drones, but leaving the whole opposing team at 0 power a few times during a match is still quite... worrying...
Yeah I'm pretty certain. It's the same reason you can't quite count on the Cannon Doffs working for you full time. While tykens gives multiple rolls, you only have the 1 tyken 3 on your ship and just the 1 doff. Cannons suffer the opposite problem, they have multiple doffs, but only one desired CRF to really work on.

It's not quite reliable enough to count on in live pvp once you factor in the targets movements (which increase the odds of them being in only one Tyken instead of 2 or 3), various energy boosters. It's a hell of a doff, don't get me wrong but if your team is only packing one TR3, he's better off ditching that for a VM3 with 3 doffs, because it does the job TR3 does far more efficiently.

Now when you start putting multiple ships down range the TR3 starts getting more appealing, because it also works against pets to drain them dry too. (A nice cruel twist of fate for poor siphon drones ) If you want to completely hose one ship you go with the VM3 and doffs, if you want the chance to hurt more than one ship at a time, you go with multiple TR3s and VM1s in the sci ships.

I use the TR3 and a purple every time I que up for pvp (when I play my sci). It's effectiveness really does fall short on it's own vs a Vm1, let alone the Vm3, pugging, or for general pvp purposes.

If you've got a team setup to lock down enemy movements tykens gets alot more appealing, but so does virtually every other power in the game. (mostly because of what that does to enemy defense scores, and firing arcs when executed correctly) TR3 is kind of like icing on the cake, and is sometimes enough to even stop the Extend Chain spam.

You want Gauranteed Results, not a 1/3 on a roll. Hence why you really need 2 to 3 ships loaded with TR3 to really get the miles out of it, and a host of other slows, and shut downs to compliment it.

Also the odds of scoring a Full Team Shutdown with one single TR3 and doff, are even lower than getting 3 tyken rolls, onto one target and not have the target safely speed away from the first and second TR3s without a shutdown of some kind. Sure it really blows if someone gets hosed down in target subs, a vm1 and tractor beam, but that's a ship that's completely dedicated to shutting someone down. But then he still has team mates who should be able to heal him through the worst of the pain. Which is why you need multiple ships carrying TR3, to hamper their efforts abit.

the fabled 3 rift proc, is incredibly rare. I would sooner count on rolling 70k Bo2 strikes than that. When you look at the math for getting more than one of the TR procs on range down field, it's like 25 percent 20, and 15. so 1/4 for the first one. That then gets reduced again by 80 percent for the second proc, and down by 85 percent for the final. It's like a confluence of fate to get hosed by 3 TR3 procs, before the original TR wears off completely. Mind you running the doff IS a no brainer if you are going to run TR3 at all, because it does do a good job getting at least one proc, and that second TR IS effective. But running it, and banking on getting 2 to 3 procs, isn't wise on that standpoint.

Last edited by ghostyandfrosty; 08-26-2012 at 11:38 AM.
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# 30
08-26-2012, 12:56 PM
lol, seems the research is paying off for someone... I just faced a team set up for heavy drain in the pug ques. Polarons, multiple tykens, target subsystems, SNBs, AMSs, the works...

needless to say, they sucked us dry :/
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