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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 417
# 31
08-27-2012, 08:37 PM
Perhaps I've skimmed too fast to catch it, but has the OP offered a specific suggestion to fix the Respec expensive pricing?

1) Would you bring down the price to, say, 100-200 Zen so that it's faster to farm Dilithium (which is obtainable in-game)?

2) If it shouldn't be sold in the C-Store (I think it's still technically called the C-Store, isn't it? Even though it takes Zen now.), how would you put it in the game? Lock box content? Mission reward? GPL-buyable?

3) If you make it buyable through some in-game-ONLY currency (meaning it never has to be converted and used in place of something with real value like Zen [real value: $1 of real money = 100 Zen]) such as EDCs or GPL, how much would you charge?

Then I'd like to see if anyone feels your idea is too expensive, just right, or too cheap. Let's get a dialogue going about how to fix it instead of only complaining about it with no specific strategies for offering it through other means. Then perhaps Cryptic/PWE will see it and consider it.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 811
# 32
08-27-2012, 08:44 PM
we're missing the big picture here, even with the weekly patches the OP shouldn't have to respec this often, I've only ever respeced my main toon once, asside from the mandatory respecs. If you seriously think you need to respec on an almost weekly basis, you should have someone else look at your build, because something is fundamentally wrong.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,100
# 33
08-27-2012, 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
You earn Dilithium. Dilithium can be freely exchanged for Zen. Zen can be used to buy Respec Tokens. IE, an in-game currency can be used to obtain Respec Tokens - or anything else in the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by entnx01 View Post
Perhaps I've skimmed too fast to catch it, but has the OP offered a specific suggestion to fix the Respec expensive pricing?

1) Would you bring down the price to, say, 100-200 Zen so that it's faster to farm Dilithium (which is obtainable in-game)?
Since the Op has not provided a solution, I will provide two. Reduce the price of the C-Store token to 100 Zen. Now, offer as a subscription reward, 1 respec token for every 150-250 days subscribed. (retroactive)

Or, reduce the price to 200-250 Zen and make respec tokens trade-able, and still offer respect tokens for days subscribed. (Also retroactive)

There are several very good reasons the retrain token needs a price reduction.
  • #1. Most people are not experts. This is the first MMO for many people. This is a very complex MMO by itself, and there is a lot of trial and error involved.
  • #2. Cryptic changes skill effects a lot. Eight months ago Power Insulators was a comically useless skill. Now, not so much.
  • #3. Cryptic tends to surprise us with those changes. They hardly ever announce them, when they do, it's too late, and Tribble is not warning enough, most people never even touch Tribble.
  • #4. Most MMO's offer a respec for much less, even if it is a cash bought item. I do not know of any other MMO's that charge $5 for a token. With the exception of Champions Online. (Hence why I don't play it.)
  • #5. A lot of people are coming back to the game after a couple of years of absence. Some of them are coming back to an entirely new skill tree. That's not very fair to them.
  • #6. Dilithium is an in-game currency yes, but it must be exchanged for an out of game currency that must be bought. That does not count as an "Ingame-currency". "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 108
# 34
08-27-2012, 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f9thaceshigh View Post
we're missing the big picture here, even with the weekly patches the OP shouldn't have to respec this often, I've only ever respeced my main toon once, asside from the mandatory respecs. If you seriously think you need to respec on an almost weekly basis, you should have someone else look at your build, because something is fundamentally wrong.
Although you could theoretically get away with this, It's not going to be effective in getting every thing out of your build.

Whats wrong isn't the build per-say, It's were told to do something in a certain sandbox (excuse the analogy) but that sand box changes, all the time. Furthermore, there is so much misinformation due to just being outdated, that you can't really make heads or tails out of spending skill points. For example subsystem repair was recently fixed to appropriately effect the time it takes your subsystem to come back on line. Seriously? This is a tier 2 skill that they just fixed not too long ago.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 417
# 35
08-27-2012, 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
Since the Op has not provided a solution, I will provide two. Reduce the price of the C-Store token to 100 Zen. Now, offer as a subscription reward, 1 respec token for every 150-250 days subscribed. (retroactive)
I think a Respec is offered a certain points of a Gold subscriber's veteran days, which only counts the amount of time he/she is a Gold subscriber.

Are you saying if the subscription lapses to allow a Respec to be included when they renew? And would you do that on a per-character basis or only a 1-time claim for each time milestone they passed before?

Quote:
Or, reduce the price to 200-250 Zen and make respec tokens trade-able, and still offer respect tokens for days subscribed. (Also retroactive)
This is an idea. Buy it for $2 or about 4 days of playing (single character only) and either enjoy the fruits of your labor, the savings in your wallet, or make some EC off it. It works with Master Keys and would make the Zen-to-EC sellers happy I do believe.

Quote:
There are several very good reasons the retrain token needs a price reduction.
  • #6. Dilithium is an in-game currency yes, but it must be exchanged for an out of game currency that must be bought. That does not count as an "Ingame-currency". "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."
I agree with #s 1-5, so I'll focus on #6.

Dilithium-to-Zen doesn't require you to use real money. Sure, the grind can be a pain in the behind, but as far as real cash being dropped if you go Dilithum-to-Zen only, it's $0.

That's my personal definition of an in-game currency, anyway: when you don't have to put any actual cash into the game to buy something, either from the "cash store" or vendors in the game environment itself. In the case of Dilithium-to-Zen, yes there's an exchange but 100 Zen from Dilithium counts the same for STO's C-Store as 100 Zen bought for $1 of out-of-game cash. (Of course, this is only true if you focus on STO. If you play other PWE games, 100 Zen for $1 is more flexible because it's not tied to STO until you transfer it there, whereas Zen bought with Dilithium is tied to STO.)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,000
# 36
08-27-2012, 10:29 PM
I actually find it kind a funny, but I used 10+ respec tokens to learn how specs effect the gameplay (from a paper escort to one that can survive most effectively and still deal effective damage). As a f2p I would of probably rerolled or relied a lot more heavily on Character Builders. I didn't even really learn the effect of 3 vs 6 vs 9 points into a skill until I had almost wasted my first 10 on one toon and I am now 8 toons on the fed side down the road of all the different professions and variations. I really feel for ppl who have to pay $5 to respec and think it should be some kind of in game currency. I wouldn't just help current players, but it would help retain players who spec't badly and only were enlightened after discovering people who could help them and not just quit out of frustration.
Hi, my name is: Elim Garak, Former Cardassian Oppressor

LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 32
# 37
08-27-2012, 11:00 PM
as many others have pointed out it is highly unlikely that u will have to respec very many times. in fact over the 12 toons total i have created i have probably respeced a total of 6 times. thats all toons combined. I probably have over 15 respec tokens left over with the 5 toons i currently have. If u are constantly respeccing u have a problem and regardless of whether they ever make them free or not, which i hope they dont, it will not help u at all. u need to get with some1 who can extensively explain the skill system to u. as of right now ur hopeless if u are constanly respeccing over and over again. and as i said before if u dont like how it is right now get over or quit playing. the free respecs are one of the few things that make it worth being a gold/lifetime member.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 75
# 38
08-27-2012, 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by entnx01 View Post
I agree with #s 1-5, so I'll focus on #6.

Dilithium-to-Zen doesn't require you to use real money. Sure, the grind can be a pain in the behind, but as far as real cash being dropped if you go Dilithum-to-Zen only, it's $0.

That's my personal definition of an in-game currency, anyway: when you don't have to put any actual cash into the game to buy something, either from the "cash store" or vendors in the game environment itself. In the case of Dilithium-to-Zen, yes there's an exchange but 100 Zen from Dilithium counts the same for STO's C-Store as 100 Zen bought for $1 of out-of-game cash. (Of course, this is only true if you focus on STO. If you play other PWE games, 100 Zen for $1 is more flexible because it's not tied to STO until you transfer it there, whereas Zen bought with Dilithium is tied to STO.)
I hate to discount somebody's opinion, but what I can tell you on the issue is that the definition of in game currency varies widely by where you are in the world and which jurisdiction you're operating in.

In 13 states that I'm aware of, "In-game currency" is defined as something that can be earned directly in the game. Since dilithium can not be earned directlyin the game, and my jurisdiction actually defines "In-game currency" as such, what I am supposed to say?

"Well, what you've said is entirely accurate but is legally wrong."?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 417
# 39
08-28-2012, 12:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozewa View Post
I hate to discount somebody's opinion, but what I can tell you on the issue is that the definition of in game currency varies widely by where you are in the world and which jurisdiction you're operating in.

In 13 states that I'm aware of, "In-game currency" is defined as something that can be earned directly in the game. Since dilithium can not be earned directlyin the game, and my jurisdiction actually defines "In-game currency" as such, what I am supposed to say?

"Well, what you've said is entirely accurate but is legally wrong."?
Don't worry about discounting someone's opinion when it's actually wrong from a certain, correct view! lol. I wasn't aware you were coming in from a legal perspective. So yeah, that last statement would make the most sense. It makes sense one way but doesn't as far as the law is concerned.

(Which is just crazy, as there's zero money changing hands and all transactions are of an in-game thing that gets switched for something that can be only used on that game. But I'm no lawyer so I'm sure there's more behind the scenes that goes on in the whole Dilithium-to-Zen dance, from earning the Dilithium to begin with all the way to getting Zen from it, that makes it technically not an in-game currency by certain legal definitions.)
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
# 40
08-28-2012, 12:47 AM
Back in the day before we had Dilithium you could actually buy those for ingame currency. Not too cheap there, but I'd say still cheaper then todays Dilithium/Zen rating. IMO it really is too expensive. Either add a different way to buy them, for example EC or Expertise, or lower the Zen price. I think a pricetag between 200 and 300 Zen would be much more reasonable than those 500 Zen we have right now.


To Cryptics defense I have to say pretesting your new skill set in STO is more than easy. You can copy your character to Tribble instantly. You aren't limited to a low number of transfers per week or month. So there is no excuse for not using Tribble to pre-test your new skill choices.
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