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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 85
# 131
09-06-2012, 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jermbot View Post
Yes, there is only the one good argument for not allowing a lock box trade of the plasmonic leech console, and that can be addressed by making it and the maco shield mutually exclusive.

If Cryptic adds the Plasmonic Leech Console to a lock box then people will think that box is less of a ripoff and there will be some who spend 20 or 30 dollars on lock box keys just to get it. It's a cost effective no-brainer as far as the business goes and so it will happen. Still, that doesn't mean we shouldn't get some enjoyment out of watching certain KDF posters wax on philosophic about how the developers have taken everything from the KDF. They won't mention who gave everything to the KDF to begin with of course.

It is a money thing. Just like the point defense is a money thing. My Klingon bought one for 400k on the exchange though.

Discussing how they have less I have no problem with. Wanting to see a FULL faction I agree with. Having the missions feel right I want myself. The feds in some of those missions use the exact same text as the Orion or Nausicans do in the Fed missions. I expect them to fly in gold painted ships and talk about how they already destroyed their universes Klingons and will now do it here.

It is reading how they Demand or Deserve everything the other faction has, then saying that every single thing they were given is somehow unique to them and off limits. The feds are not allowed to have a single thing be unique to them by some posts. Already there is a thread saying they Deserve a 180 degree torpedo. Argue it with ship hulls and I read and likely agree, unless it's these other race ships. Honestly I feel that if suddenly they said Fed only phasers and Klingon only disruptors there would be the same small subgroup arguing that it wasn't fair, Klingons deserve the phasers, but Klingons only on disruptors.

It is disappointing to read and counter productive. It give the impression that the whole faction only care about their faction within the game and takes away from other to me valid arguments. Or ,just turns people off from reading some of the forum areas.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 471
# 132
09-06-2012, 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilemorgan View Post
Do not remember seeing the first 2. As for the third I remember the gunner being told to disable the engines, failing, then being killed. The next ship to show up was the damaged and automated enterprise. I do not intentionally ignore facts. I either did not see that or remember it differently.

I also recall the Defiant using cannons to target sub systems. An argument for making target subsystems useable for more then just beams I suppose.

Point is anyone can try to make anything their faction only, use whatever argument for it they can think of. It still just continues to make things a us vs them situation that SOME are not only going with but dragging way to far.
I agree and I do not agree, sorry.

I agree on cannons used sub-targeting would be cool ,but because of their burst damage potential cannons are bad for subsystems targeting, (especially shields or when coupled with a drain build tossing polarons), and could get OP really fast.

Please forgive my analogy.

It's not just a matter sharing. The more alike the factions are the more vanilla the game. Not that vanilla is a bad flavor but when I buy ice cream I seldom buy just vanilla. Mmmm Ben and Jerry's Rainforest Crunch... Vanilla ice cream with caramel swirl and toffee covered brazil nuts. *drools*

See novel game mechanics are like that. They are what make you pick Rainforest Crunch over Strawberry Cheesecake, or vice versa. Both use vanilla as the base flavor but the features are the draw. If both sides are identical then all you really have is the same flavor of vanilla in a different container with different snazzy graphics wrapped around that container.

The more Feds get KDF mechanics, and vice versa, the more vanilla the game becomes. Then why would you try the other side? Just so you can see the other wrapper? You already played the game.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
They taste the same.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,032
# 133
09-06-2012, 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilemorgan View Post
Do not remember seeing the first 2. As for the third I remember the gunner being told to disable the engines, failing, then being killed. The next ship to show up was the damaged and automated enterprise. I do not intentionally ignore facts. I either did not see that or remember it differently.
Very well, however I strongly recommend to check your facts before you post in the future.
It helps a lot.

Just to clear this one up:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/t...um=406&page=13
In the second row you can see the second gunner (told to target the engine only) actually manages to hit the engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilemorgan View Post
I also recall the Defiant using cannons to target sub systems. An argument for making target subsystems useable for more then just beams I suppose.
HMM...well either that or another possibility would be to add "Cannon: Target Subsystem X" and "Torpedo:Target Subsystem X" as tactical BO options.
We do know it's possible form the shows and movies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilemorgan View Post
Point is anyone can try to make anything their faction only, use whatever argument for it they can think of. It still just continues to make things a us vs them situation that SOME are not only going with but dragging way to far.
The point however is different when you compare two very different things like you did:
Character abilities and consoles.
In STO character abilities are identical (probably because it was easier given STO's rushed release)
In fact there have been some proposals thrown around in the past by players to make some abilities more faction specific, for example to give the KDF other Attack Patterns.
[Not more powerful, just different]
There is however a bit difference when consoles that were created as faction-specific from the beginning are made available to the other side.
Not to mention that faction diversity is something that helps factions to keep their identity and uniqueness.

One of the ways to keep factions interesting is to make them different in one way or another.
In case of STO more and more things that have made the KDF unique have been transferred over to the other side, diminishing the diversity between the two factions.
While I do not agree with everyone who has posted on these matters, I do have to say I fail to understand why this process had to be intiated in the first place.
However if I connect the demands of the Fed playerbase with the current situation, it seems the intent is to basically make the Fed side have all the features the KDF has while changing little or nothing on the KDF side, making them basically an inferior clone with little features and a red interface.

Hence for example my thread on the KDF scoutship in the shipyard forums.
While I'd like a ship with "blue slots" so to speak, I'd like it to resemble a typical Fed Science ship as little as possible while keeping both sides equally competitive and balanced.
I think it's the only way to have both factions in warlike coexistence in the game...and in peaceful coexistence in the forums.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 85
# 134
09-06-2012, 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Just seemed like the poster was whining with "moral outrage", like you accuse us KDF of doing.
*Chuckles*

Not moral outrage. Call it voicing concern in a way to be read.

Every time it comes up, the SMALL subgroup of the faction does the same thing. Reminds me of the the line from a movie. Take everything you can, give nothing back.

Whining. Hmmm. That word gets used a lot. Like Unique gets used a lot, or everyone. Alot of the time they do not fit. Not every fed thinks they deserve a Klingon ship. Not every Klingon are currently saying they deserve the 180 torpedo for example. Not everyone whines either. But those words get used.

A group cannot expect much if all they do is say, this should be ours now, but everything we have stays unique to us. It just won't happen. No matter how SMALL the subgroup it winds up being seen as the whole group or faction. I know it won't stop but these sorts of things should. Save it for real uniqueness like the ship hulls. That is when lines should be drown, not this sort of thing.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 85
# 135
09-06-2012, 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majesticmsfc View Post
Yeap another Troll it seems that has joined the ranks. Don't like what they see in here? Then avoid the section. It's a no brainer. It keeps the peace for all of us.

We won't bother you if you leave us alone.
Not a troll, not unless you go extreme on the description in trolling and you. We all post to get a point across. So we are all Trolls.


I am like others expressing some points. Like how Some are drawing a line that shouldn't be there. Everything in one faction MUST be in both. Everything in another MUST be unique to theirs. I get it that the Klingons got the shaft from day one. So far little has changed. This sort of thing doesn't get many people to be interested in walking over and joining in asking for a change.

It's been bounced around to make Season whatever a Klingon only time for finally finishing up the faction. At the expense of anything new for the Feds, or if ever done another faction. How does anyone expect players who are in that or those factions to go for it? One small way is these consoles exchanges, and remember that every time both sides get something new. It's small, but it's something. Which is all the other faction or factions would have to look forward to while this mythical Klingon age season is done. (I won't hold my breath waiting as it stands now)
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 85
# 136
09-06-2012, 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thesnyndicate View Post
Either give leech console or dont give it just do something NOW!


I wanna know so i dont waste anymore time and real money on my already wasted KDF toon.


If you share leech console with FED then there is no reason at all for me to stick with KDF anymore.

I can do the same build as my KDF only that FED ships will be having more hull and shields than KDF ones.

Yeah its unfair for the KDF but who cares it seems only a few of us do.

So i will just leave KDF and all the money i spented on KDF side to rot.

And i invest time and maybe a few money on fed side since thats the side you seem to strongly favour and develop all the new stuff for.....

I require an official answer
I demand it since i am a good and loyal customer give me the answer and i wont quit the game just KDF side and i will just play FED only since thats the way you like it i will follow but dont expect me to be happy with ur decisions i will just adjust so i keep on having fun espcially with MACO+leech it will be very very funny to wiping out KDF fleets alone.

TY IN ADVANCE DONT FORGET TO ANSWER MY QUESTION PLZ!!!!
You are unlikely to get your answer in here.

It will likely come fron Tribble.
You are making demands for it and for having things your way. Both are turn offs.
The leach going to feds will not change Klingons. Really not sure on Feds either.
If you have stuck with the Klingons for so long why would you cut for one thing?
Would that not make the faction ever weaker(less players)? Shouldn't you instead be trying to get more people to at least make and sometimes play a Klingon?
Since they argue that the faction is such a small percent of the game?
I have a Science Capt. I want those skills to be balanced and fixed. Every time I read a response from Cryptic after the break another skill it is we'll get back and fix it, at some point. When we have the time. Should I delete that toon out of disgust?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 85
# 137
09-06-2012, 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
LOL- at least it offers choices.

we can read posts of "KDF posters wax on philosophic about how the developers have taken everything from the KDF" as Jermbot stated or we can read posts where some fedfans put on Airs and tell us our place and how we need to accept it becuase we do not matter as much as they do in STO

Whats funny is the fed On Airs response is just as often as ranty, insulting and condescending as the KDF philosophic tirades, and yet nobody ever seems to say anything. If they do I would imagine they'll be called Whiny.
How about this instead.
Instead of thinking Faction first and player second, Player first, Faction second.
The Klingons are listed as eighteen percent. Cryptic says that the lack of content is due to those numbers. I agree with the people who say it's reverse.

This SMALL subgroup of Klingon who demand from feds, say nothing is unique, then claim everything is unique on their faction is a detraction. They I believe they think only of their faction. They will only make it look like the whole faction is this way. To hope to get anything done the faction needs a majority. I do not know if even then it will work. But if every time a person logs into the game there is a lone player going on about how this or that is unique, you can't have it, then demands to be given something from another side then the whole faction gets tuned out.

I do not speak as Fed or Klingon, always(well almost always)as a player. I do not know if you directed your comments on rants and Airs(rant will always cover me though) I have no airs about me. I am a player and I want the game as a whole to go on. To be as fun as possible for all. The Klingon place is to me the same as the Feds, or Romulans or any other possible faction people will think of. A place it is not now and I fear it will never be.

I rarely post about things like fair console trades or such, I think they should be by the way. I just see they mostly break down to things like it's ours, it's unique to us(sometimes from the Klingon side, sometimes on both). I thing it's that Klingon have so little, so some are afraid to share anything at all. Blame it on the numbers, blame it on Cryptic. I really do just think that the almost always break down to this same tired argument is turning off the majority and that needs to change. So for a change I'm going to push my two cents.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 44
# 138
09-06-2012, 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilemorgan View Post
You are unlikely to get your answer in here.

It will likely come fron Tribble.
You are making demands for it and for having things your way. Both are turn offs.
The leach going to feds will not change Klingons. Really not sure on Feds either.
If you have stuck with the Klingons for so long why would you cut for one thing?
Would that not make the faction ever weaker(less players)? Shouldn't you instead be trying to get more people to at least make and sometimes play a Klingon?
Since they argue that the faction is such a small percent of the game?
I have a Science Capt. I want those skills to be balanced and fixed. Every time I read a response from Cryptic after the break another skill it is we'll get back and fix it, at some point. When we have the time. Should I delete that toon out of disgust?
YOU SHALL NOT!!!

get the leech console

Instead, since you talked about trading consoles between factions you can take bio neutral warhead and we can have AMS or something equally useful.

This way impact wont be so big to game balance.

Cause like i said 1 million times MACO shields+plasma leech+efficiant captain boffs+passive traits efficient and warpcore + skills on efficient and warpcore and seperate powers can result into max power all over across the board literally!!!

You will see me doing it with my FED toon once it goes live and destroy any klingon remnants i encounter EASILY!

Why to buff federation even more when its already powerful enough if not more powerful to compensate KDF both in pve and pvp?

Why not to keep KDF a minimal faction but worth playing?

They got unique weapons from quests that got 10% change to dmg shields
They got better escorts both in turn rates and firepower and hull and shields
They got more versatile ships with more universal boffs
They got better sci ships while we got only a few
They got fleet heavy escort carrier(best ship in the game) and its constant free tractor pets

They got better cloths than us and more things to play with.

Why on the seven kingdoms they should get on top of all those our last worthy UNIQUE console and destroy pvp balance and leave KDF faction just a silly skin that lacks MACO shields and stats on the ships????

If the answer is money then your wrong simply because ppl will buy the lockboxes either you put inside bio neutral warhead or plasma leech and most ppl will buy them for the ships and not the consoles since those console will be sold cheap enough on exchange whiles ships wont be cheap so....

You will get a lot of more money if you keep KDF alive and give ppl a good REASON to play it.
Plasma leech is a good reason to play KDF and if you leave it on vandal destroyer it will bring you more money cause players will play KDF just for leech so he will buy at least vandal destroyer and a couple of more ships and stuff to be good.

If you share this then no1 will be rolling new KDF toons and no1 will invest on buying KDF stuff anymore.

I personally i might quit the game or just abandon KDF meaning no more money for KDF stuff and play FED with minimal real money cost like most f2p's noobs do.

You see we might be only 20% of total pop but all this 20% i bet it paid lots of money cause we rly liked KDF stuff and lore.

Want me to link how much i paid ONLY on KDF side?
And now you want to bring balance upside down and you expect me to pay all those money to fed side as well?

NO WAY and even if some klingons do they are only 20%vs80%

So you have to keep a reason for the 80% to want to be a part of that small 20%

Since you all here are so much of maths talkers here some simple maths.

It benefits the company NOT to share the leech console but anything else and it benefits game balance and our future co-existance when it comes to the 2 factions.
Without leech console KDF will shrink even more PVP ques will be a mess tons of feds dudes waiting in the line and no KDF from the otherside to give them an easy match!!!

Dont say i didnt warn you.

This sharing thingy is not rly good ,especially the leech console we got and the maco shields they got those two are like pylons each side MUST have unique in order to maintain balance and survivability of both factions.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 85
# 139
09-06-2012, 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piwright42 View Post
I agree and I do not agree, sorry.

I agree on cannons used sub-targeting would be cool ,but because of their burst damage potential cannons are bad for subsystems targeting, (especially shields or when coupled with a drain build tossing polarons), and could get OP really fast.

Please forgive my analogy.

It's not just a matter sharing. The more alike the factions are the more vanilla the game. Not that vanilla is a bad flavor but when I buy ice cream I seldom buy just vanilla. Mmmm Ben and Jerry's Rainforest Crunch... Vanilla ice cream with caramel swirl and toffee covered brazil nuts. *drools*

See novel game mechanics are like that. They are what make you pick Rainforest Crunch over Strawberry Cheesecake, or vice versa. Both use vanilla as the base flavor but the features are the draw. If both sides are identical then all you really have is the same flavor of vanilla in a different container with different snazzy graphics wrapped around that container.

The more Feds get KDF mechanics, and vice versa, the more vanilla the game becomes. Then why would you try the other side? Just so you can see the other wrapper? You already played the game.
Sorry for not agreeing, thanks but it isn't needed.

Ok, my thoughts back.

Cryptic decided on what would go where. Other then ship hulls. Ship hulls are one of the things that make a faction unique. Now these consoles, they are not all things that are clear cut unique. If I remember the jumper console description(the one Feds just got for the point defense) It states it's rapid warping a ship to behind a enemy, making it appear it teleported. That sounds like the Picard maneuver to me. So it could be argued that feds would have that. And so on with several different consoles on both factions. Because of whatever reason one cares to choose there will be similar tech for any Faction. I am not saying everything should be shared. My point was that a constant, no it's unique on every thing is detracting from the game.

If it were to be pushed even more to the extreme then only feds would get phasers and Klingon disruptors. So either no point defense for Klingon or it becomes Disruptor defense.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 471
# 140
09-06-2012, 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilemorgan View Post
Sorry for not agreeing, thanks but it isn't needed.

Ok, my thoughts back.

Cryptic decided on what would go where. Other then ship hulls. Ship hulls are one of the things that make a faction unique. Now these consoles, they are not all things that are clear cut unique. If I remember the jumper console description(the one Feds just got for the point defense) It states it's rapid warping a ship to behind a enemy, making it appear it teleported. That sounds like the Picard maneuver to me. So it could be argued that feds would have that. And so on with several different consoles on both factions. Because of whatever reason one cares to choose there will be similar tech for any Faction. I am not saying everything should be shared. My point was that a constant, no it's unique on every thing is detracting from the game.

If it were to be pushed even more to the extreme then only feds would get phasers and Klingon disruptors. So either no point defense for Klingon or it becomes Disruptor defense.
Thank you for your thoughtful response.

Here have some plain old vanilla ice cream. Seems to be your favorite flavor.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
They taste the same.
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