Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 42
So we all know that Sci powers have gotten nerf'd so many times in so many ways.

Most recently, Photonic shockwave. Someone was talking about tens of thousands of damage being done by a min/maxed build in Photonic Shockwave III, with a Tactical Captain at the helm of a ship with a Cmdr Sci boff slot.

So, TPTB, have nerf'd sci skills into being completely useless, for Sci class Captains.

I think we're not getting to the root of the problem. Tactical Captain buffs.
Attack Pattern Alpha, Tactical Fleet and especially, Going Down Fighting, which deals more damage the lower the hull, and if you shield tank, and keep your hull below 50, this is a massive percentage boost

They buff *ALL* damage done by your ship and your powers. Including Sci powers. So all those over powered Sci ships, were probably flown by Tactical captains. I know I've done it.

I've flown an Atrox as a Tactical Captain, I used Feedback Pulse III in PvP. With buffs active, and my skill and consoles in particle generators, Aux power to max, My FBP III was sending back 2.2 damage to the attacker. And 50% of that, bypassed shields. So, 1.1 of the attackers damage, is going straight to their hull. Even if it was an escort, with RSP I active, they would be dead in a matter of moments.

Forgive the quality of this video, it was a quick test I did to show my Fleet what I had done.
I've since learned new settings to improve rendering and fix the temporary blackout that happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuH38esvFeU

People keep saying that Tactical is better than the other three classes. This is why.
Tactical Captain buffs, should only buff damage done by WEAPONS.

What does a tactical officer know about improving the damage done by particles and other crazy science magic like Gravity Well? It's not canon. It's not game balance. This is what should be fixed.

If tac buffs, buff only weapons and not Damage Dealing Sci powers, then sci powers could be rebuffed and be more effective for Engineers, or Sci captains in Science ships.
And Tactical captains in science ships wouldn't be so OP.

Last edited by matthew486dx; 09-01-2012 at 09:34 AM. Reason: Going Down Fighting numbers probably were off, edited since I don't know exact numbers
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,547
# 2
09-01-2012, 10:23 AM
a tactical captain be his nature should effect all out going damage. calling for a nerf of tactical is wrong, it should be science and engineering captains that should be buffed.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 3
09-01-2012, 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
a tactical captain be his nature should effect all out going damage. calling for a nerf of tactical is wrong, it should be science and engineering captains that should be buffed.
No, the OP is right.

Think about it. If you 'buff' science you also end up buffing tac captains IN science ship. It'd be a double buff for them.

Tactical capt. should only buff weapon damage.

The problem is, the devs have so stupidly put all damage inflicting science abilities as 'kinetic' damage that they cant really have tac capt abilities buffing kinetic and energy alone.. that is why a tac capt firing a grav well 3 makes a science capt in a sci ship cry with shame.

The irony of it is that this was not an issue pre-f2p when science abilities had their own damage type: anomaly/exotic if I remember correctly.

That needs to return. The counter to those damage types should be through countermeasures skill and consoles.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 887
# 4
09-01-2012, 11:00 AM
I agree with this. Tac Captain abilities should just buff energy and kinetic damage. All Science abilities should inflict exotic damage.

A Sci Captain in a Sci Ship should be a viable option for playing the game. Every one of our abilities has been nerfed, and we kind of just suck right now.

Like what matthew486dx said, what does a tactical officer know about creating Gravity Wells or Tyken Rifts?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,547
# 5
09-01-2012, 11:21 AM
so you want to destroy an interesting synergy, and make a captain/ship combo worthless? i have thought about this a lot and its been debated at length in the pvp forum. its a tactical captain's job to deal damage first and foremost, thats all there is too him. he doesn't have self heals or debuffs to fall back on. arbitrarily taking that ability away, making exceptions, its a slippery slope.

the real problem is a lack of synergy with science captains and science ships, they should have a way to buff the non knetic damage abilities in ways the tactical captains cant, that way sci ships can get the buff they need, shield striping abilities that deal drain damage and not energy or kinetic damage would be viable again, and taci wouldn't be the only really effective captain type to put in a sci ship like it is right now.

engineering captains are terrible, and science captains are only good in a premade. both are overdue for a buff, thats why you are all coming to the conclusion that tac/sci is overpowered. really, a tac captain in absolutely everything works best right now. the other 2 captain types need to be brought to a tac's level. a tac is perfect as is, and is the only interesting type to play right now imo, nerfing it like that would destroy what i and many others enjoy, buffing the other types up to a tacs level would just make them fun too.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 544
# 6
09-01-2012, 11:44 AM
Gotta agree with OP here. While I understand that many Tact players fly Science and Cruiser ships, a simple look at the average game parses tells us just how imbalanced the game really is for Science players in a science vessel.

Take a Tact and Sci character. Use the same ship, equipment, character skills and bo skills. What you find is the Sci character gets smoked in his own ship with technology that he/she understands better.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,979
# 7
09-01-2012, 12:13 PM
This is what I find funny about the entire thing. Tacs are great in every ship type, Sci not so much and Eng is borderline pointless unless your in an escort.

Great balance.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 8
09-01-2012, 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
really, a tac captain in absolutely everything works best right now. the other 2 captain types need to be brought to a tac's level.

And separating science abilities out of Tactical's damage boosts is the first step to doing this.

I fully support the original idea. Once Tacticals are longer confusing the issue with massive bonuses to damage, we can then properly address the balance of science abilities.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 346
# 9
09-01-2012, 02:23 PM
Seriously? Tactical Captains are the weakest of the 3, by far.
There's a reason most of my chars are Sci.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 10
09-01-2012, 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
so you want to destroy an interesting synergy, and make a captain/ship combo worthless?
There is no 'interesting synergy' for tac captains when in other ships. Its something that is broken and gave tac captains an advantage they were not designed to have.

It is not worthless. A tac captain in a science ship STILL has the same damage output via science that SCIENCE captains have now.

He has extra oomph with the guns on the ship and if that wasnt enough, he can lower timers AND damage resists on the target.

Quote:
i have thought about this a lot and its been debated at length in the pvp forum. its a tactical captain's job to deal damage first and foremost, thats all there is too him. he doesn't have self heals or debuffs to fall back on. arbitrarily taking that ability away, making exceptions, its a slippery slope.
Incorrect. A tac captain in a science ship has EXACTLY the same heals and debuffs in a science ship that a sci captain has now. Heals has nothing to do with the tac capt damage buffs.

Yes, a tac capt is the damage dealer..with weapons. In a science ship his guns will do a lot more damage than a sci capt will put out while still doing the same exact damage the sci capt does via science abilities currently.

Actually even more so since sensor analysis significantly boosts weapon damage.

Quote:
the real problem is a lack of synergy with science captains and science ships, they should have a way to buff the non knetic damage abilities in ways the tactical captains cant,
there are no non-kinetic damage abilities now. All science damage abilities were switched to kinetic. There is also no lack of synergy between sci ships and sci captains.. the abilities work (albeit majorly nerfed) but the stats those abilities are based upon have been neutered and in some cases rendered useless.

Quote:
...that way sci ships can get the buff they need, shield striping abilities that deal drain damage and not energy or kinetic damage would be viable again, and taci wouldn't be the only really effective captain type to put in a sci ship like it is right now.
sci ships dont need buffs. The sci abilities need to be fixed from their broken condition.


Quote:
engineering captains are terrible, and science captains are only good in a premade. both are overdue for a buff, thats why you are all coming to the conclusion that tac/sci is overpowered. really, a tac captain in absolutely everything works best right now. the other 2 captain types need to be brought to a tac's level. a tac is perfect as is, and is the only interesting type to play right now imo, nerfing it like that would destroy what i and many others enjoy, buffing the other types up to a tacs level would just make them fun too.
I disagree. Engineering and science captain are balanced and do not need a buff. A science captain in an escort enhances the damage via science debuff and can add damage and hate with holo fleet. Engineer capt can make an escort put out good damage with his power manipulation abilities. However, neither sci nor engineer can match or exceed a tac captain damage output in an escort.

On the other hand, tac capt always makes cruisers and sci ships perform better WITH engineering and science boff abilities because of that universal damage boost.

It is precisely that universal damage boost, which only came about post-f2p when the game was dumbed down significantly, which is the source of the imbalance.

There is no way to 'buff' science and engineer either. The captain abilities ARE balanced because they were made pre-f2p ..when the game was balanced.

What changed was the damage type and stats the abilities were based upon.

By RETURNING science and engineering damage abilities to their own damage types the tactical captain will not have the extreme bonus to performance in other ship types that he has now.


The great dumbing down of the game in the F2P patch did one thing : it boosted tactical captains to ridiculous levels.

Why?

The old skill tree looked like this:

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordp...s/STO%2021.jpg

Tactical captains back then had the same decision to make as science and engineering captains when it came to how they dealt their damage. They had to CHOOSE which weapon type to put points in.

Post F2P that was squeezed into the dumbed down 'all energy, all projectile' categories we have currently.

The effect? By training just energy weapons they became superb at all energy weapon types.

Science captains? Still had to choose a minimum of 3 stats between 8+ different stats so they could use just ONE boff ability effectively. If a sci ship wants to use 2 sci abilities to fight back forget it, theres no way to skill the ship for it unless you ignore basics like power settings or weapons or healing abilities.

Engineers lost a bunch of their skills to science (shield based) and their primary stats for boosting engineering abilities were absorbed into science category..which doesnt matter anyway... but the primary thing engineers lost in the F2P patch was that their offensive abilities became impotent due to the buffing of tac team and attack pattern abilities. Before a tac team 1 had no hope of counteracting a boarding party 3. Now? LOL... click! its gone.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
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