Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 387
# 21
09-04-2012, 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
We are not talking about the drones alone, but also about the boff ability energy drain. Resistances do seem to influence that, though not much, and I must say that that is actually the best approach: Even a fully-resistance-specced sci ship with 4 or 5 resistance consoles should not be immune against any offensive sci power, much like a fullly armor- and shield specced ship is not immune vs an all-cannon escort. You want defense against sci powers, make it by using boff abilities.

That is a simple solution for the overall problem sci captains have right now.

And stop calling me that.
The problem is that right now, because resistances don't work the way they should against the siphon drones, they are able to virtually shut down a ship on their own. This ground has all been covered to death though, and I doubt you are ever going to be convinced that one carrier should not be able to neutralize one ship with it's bays while supporting teams with it's own powers. While I'm sure that sounds fun to the carrier captain, it makes the game suck for the non-carrier captains who are relegated to the sidelines.

As for the broader suggestion of reducing resistances across the board to make sci more viable... eh... I think a better overall approach would be re-balancing sci powers so that they are less 'all or nothing' in design. Power drain is a great example of this - unless you stack a ton of it, it's pretty useless, but as soon as you cross a certain tipping point it suddenly becomes nearly unstoppable. There is no 'middle ground' where the Sci captain feels he/she is benefiting from draining the other ship with energy drain, and the drained ship captain feels like he/she is able to deal with the drain and keep fighting. With Sci powers as it, it seems like one or the other of the players is always going to feel 'cheated'.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,007
# 22
09-04-2012, 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtshead View Post
The problem is that right now, because resistances don't work the way they should against the siphon drones, they are able to virtually shut down a ship on their own.
Hm, I am not sure if resistances are really the way it should work. I mean, we don't have a ship that is all shields and armor be not destroyed by a tac escort, so why should a ship that is all energy drain resistance be immune to energy drain?

Instead, just add a counter, such as science team or engineering team.

Quote:
As for the broader suggestion of reducing resistances across the board to make sci more viable... eh... I think a better overall approach would be re-balancing sci powers so that they are less 'all or nothing' in design. Power drain is a great example of this - unless you stack a ton of it, it's pretty useless, but as soon as you cross a certain tipping point it suddenly becomes nearly unstoppable. There is no 'middle ground' where the Sci captain feels he/she is benefiting from draining the other ship with energy drain, and the drained ship captain feels like he/she is able to deal with the drain and keep fighting. With Sci powers as it, it seems like one or the other of the players is always going to feel 'cheated'.
Isn't that a bit like saying the effects of damage should be reduced because it is all or nothing if you are destroyed?

I mean, how is being shut down by energy drain different from being shot down by weapons fire?
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 23
09-04-2012, 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Hm, I am not sure if resistances are really the way it should work. I mean, we don't have a ship that is all shields and armor be not destroyed by a tac escort, so why should a ship that is all energy drain resistance be immune to energy drain?

Instead, just add a counter, such as science team or engineering team.



Isn't that a bit like saying the effects of damage should be reduced because it is all or nothing if you are destroyed?

I mean, how is being shut down by energy drain different from being shot down by weapons fire?
Wanna bet? I sleep through the best Escorts outputs in my Eng cruiser. Hell I can practically sleep through Escorts, in my Escorts. You are all but immune to damage in this game and that's rather sad.

Skill Resistances, for a large portion of the tree either work too well or not at all, but Power Drain should still be resisted. What the value is, or isn't can be adjusted later. But it needs to have SOMETHING first in order to be able to tweak it.

Also, frankly damage DOES have working counters. It's called EPTS, and shield healing. Power Drain... yeah vs siphon pods in particular you can crank Batteries, Emergency Power, EPS Power and your power levels will not budge for more than 2 seconds, tops. If the carrier is built correctly. AND he can spawn the drones as fast or faster than they can be killed.

Last edited by ghostyandfrosty; 09-04-2012 at 08:09 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 757
# 24
09-04-2012, 08:12 AM
Wait wait wait...

How in the world are all Cannon Escorts "broken"?
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 25
09-04-2012, 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by praxi5 View Post
Wait wait wait...

How in the world are all Cannon Escorts "broken"?
Why because he isn't smart enough to run EPTS on his Tac Kitty Carrier in pvp of course.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 26
09-04-2012, 08:16 AM
In my opinion subsystem power levels should never fall below 25 from a drain if the ship has 9 points into power insulators. The only time subsystem power should fall below 25 is when a subsystem is disabled from a Phaser PROC or from a subsystem target ability that disables the subsystem.

At a power level of 25, your weapons are literally doing -50% base DPV/DPS. At a power level of 25, your ships shields are online but are not regenerating and their energy damage resistance is limited to whatever the shield damage resistance is on the tooltip display of the shield.

That is just my own opinion.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 735
# 27
09-04-2012, 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Hm, I am not sure if resistances are really the way it should work. I mean, we don't have a ship that is all shields and armor be not destroyed by a tac escort, so why should a ship that is all energy drain resistance be immune to energy drain?
whut-whut?

It's even possible to build an escort that can't be destroyed by another single escort. With sciships and cruisers, building a "stalemate-ship" is a walk in the park, AND allows for a flexible build that does more than just survive! I've been in C&H matches with 2 good heavy damage dealers working on a cruiser for 15 minutes without being able to bring him down!

A ship prepared to take damage can shake off the damage attack from one ship quite easily. A ship specially built to resist drain can not shake off a carrier, short of staying permanently out of range, no matter how he builds or plays.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 28
09-04-2012, 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
I don't see the problem. Power drain builds are no more exploitive than all-cannon escorts. There are ways to deal with both, but it is tough, obviously.
Coming from the man that believes the only way to play is with the two dual cannons, a dual beam and some torpedos is laughable, thats not saying much Sophie. Have fun killing NPCs in Kirk's Lounge.

Last edited by aquitaine985; 09-04-2012 at 08:35 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 29
09-04-2012, 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
Why because he isn't smart enough to run EPTS on his Tac Kitty Carrier in pvp of course.
Maybe he doesn't realize that damage resistance on shields stack up to 75% whereas all of those Tactical Damage buffs are reduced by 75% with little more than EPTS and high Shield Subsystem Power using MACO shields.

@ Sophie: that means, if an Escort musters up 100,000k in potential damage? against hardened shields, he will only dish out 25,000 which if the Cruiser Captain is intelligent enough to have a single copy of Tactical Team results in: 10,000k x 4 shield facings = 40,000 - 25, 000 = 15,000 shields left on the Cruiser. Which, btw are regenerated and repaired with BOFF abilities faster than the Escort can muster up another 100,000k in damage? yet good escorts will do their worst in the 5second delay between Tactical Team up-time, however even then, a decent cruiser will have a minimum of 50% all damage resistances on his/her hull with at least Aux-SIF for a mild heal or fail.

Now, not to brag, but it typically takes more than one escort to down my Cruiser when it is setup for PVP and not one of the cruisers is a SCI-TAC? because without sub-nuke? they simply can?t dish out enough damage before I can just move out of range or tractor beam repulse them out of range. Remember, cannon damage goes down rapidly past 5km.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,007
# 30
09-04-2012, 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
Wanna bet? I sleep through the best Escorts outputs in my Eng cruiser.
Without activating any counters at all? No, you cannot.

Quote:
Also, frankly damage DOES have working counters. It's called EPTS, and shield healing. [...]
Kind of my point.
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