Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,693
# 21
09-05-2012, 12:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by red01999 View Post
cruisers dominate. The Odyssey (pay) and Assault Cruiser (free) will probably continue to dominate by a considerable margin for the forseeable future, and may very well always dominate for the Enterprise connection alone.
This is my point exactly, there are far more cruisers in the game than anything else and yet any cruiser built to survive almost anything the game throws at it (and still does 1700-1900 damage per hit with 6 beams) REQUIRES escorts to kill anything in good time (heck it spends a few minutes dealing with frigate shields in the 20 ship fleet action and it's a shield stripper)

sorry for stealing your post, it was good evidence for me considering I went completely ignored
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,916
# 22
09-05-2012, 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
I have to ask what big all out wars the Federation has been on? As far as I know after ST 6 and peace was signed with the Klingon Empire there were no notable wars talked about in the shows[...]
One that immediately jumps to my mind:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Fede...Cardassian_War

Edit:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Conflicts

Last edited by sophlogimo; 09-05-2012 at 12:39 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,828
# 23
09-05-2012, 12:36 AM
Because there are alot of players who do not know the detailed mechanics of the game and/or just fly the ship they think looks cool.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,693
# 24
09-05-2012, 12:45 AM
Well in all honesty I don't know the detailed mechanics of the game but I know that pre season 6 I was a competent Excelsior pilot who could tear through anything the game threw at me, but with season 6 my combat competence went down the drain, I have an Engi in an excelsior who can survive almost anything but can't kill anything new without an escort to help (Read "do it for me"), I have a tactical in an escort who can kill anything in no time flat (provided someone else is holding aggro for me) and a science in a science ship who bless them is completely useless... the ship can't dish out as much damage as the cruiser, it can't survive as well as the cruiser and science abilities have been reduced to little more that pretty visual effects...

Seems a little silly to me, or is that JUST me?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,916
# 25
09-05-2012, 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
Well in all honesty I don't know the detailed mechanics of the game but I know that pre season 6 I was a competent Excelsior pilot who could tear through anything the game threw at me, but with season 6 my combat competence went down the drain, I have an Engi in an excelsior who can survive almost anything but can't kill anything new without an escort to help (Read "do it for me"), I have a tactical in an escort who can kill anything in no time flat (provided someone else is holding aggro for me) and a science in a science ship who bless them is completely useless... the ship can't dish out as much damage as the cruiser, it can't survive as well as the cruiser and science abilities have been reduced to little more that pretty visual effects...

Seems a little silly to me, or is that JUST me?
Season 6 merely changed the way most NPC's are built - they are slightly smarter now, which is why your cruiser will not kill them that easily any more. Tweaking your build, though, you will soon find a way to make your cruiser do the same again to them, because they are still not all that smart, they only use better combinations of skills and consoles now.

Science Ships are a bit at a disadvantage now, though, that is true.

Last edited by sophlogimo; 09-05-2012 at 01:13 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 402
# 26
09-05-2012, 01:36 AM
IMHO flying an escort is more difficult than cruisers... you need to front enemies and escort can't be resistent like a cruiser, moreover you can't use an escort if you do not know anything about keybinds.

Notice, I am not saying that building and flying a cruiser is easy (in fact many cruiser's captains can't tank, do not support their teammates in any way, have bad builds...) many players take a cruiser, put 8 beam arrays, some consoles, BOFF abilities to heal their shield and hull... and finally they fly, just using the keyboard to turn right, left, up and down and the mouse to activate abilities.


An escort's captain (for example) can't simply do that... a player who whant to fly an escort have to learn how to build it, have to learn how keybind works...
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,693
# 27
09-05-2012, 01:56 AM
Well personally I find the "pew pew" play style of the escort easier than my cruiser (although I've been using keybinds since day 1 so I don't know how that has affected my experience) but it is less fun as for 8 beams, if you have the turn rate of a brick in set concrete it can be moire effective than 6 and 2 torps (being what I run on my excelsior) but my oddy (8 tetryon beams) is more than capable of shredding player ships but unless you are stuck with that kind of turn rate aka anything not an oddy or dread 8 beams is ridiculous, also cruiser players who can't tank need to learn the ship, I know mine inside out, back to front, you name the way and I know my ship (hell I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of it, 6 tetryon beams is nasty) I do try at least to spread my abilities throughout a team and all one needs to do is ask, if I can spare it I will, personally I'd rather be able to survive anything in the game and support my allies, if only by tanking and holding my ship together, than be utterly selfish with my design and have the issue of not being able to help, even if it does mean sacrificing my personal damage potential. after all, one has to draw the line somewhere.

Regrettably science ships have been on the bad end of the stick, to the point where I have built mine to drain and lay down other debuffs while keeping a team healthy... it's the only thing I can do with it...

With regard to a few tweaks to my cruiser build (shown below) any advice (not too expensive please, no massive weapon type overhauls) would be appreciated (note to those not interested in ship builds post is over)

Weapons (Same both ends)
Quantum torpedo launcher Mk XII [CrtD] [CrtH] [Borg]
Polarised tetryon Beam array Mk XI
Phased tetryon Beam array Mk XI [Acc] [Dmg]
Tetryon Beam array Mk XII [Acc] [CrtH] [Borg]

Equipment
Deflector: M.A.C.O. Graviton Deflector Array MK XII
Engines: M.A.C.O. Impulse Engines Mk XII
Shields: M.A.C.O. Resilient Shield Array Mk XII

Consoles

Engineering:
Monotanium Alloy Mk XI (Blue quality)
Neutronium Alloy Mk XI (Blue quality)
Neutronium Alloy Mk XI (Blue quality)
Assimilated Module

Science:
Field generator Mk XI (Blue quality)
Field generator Mk XI (Blue quality)

Tactical:
Tetryon pulse generator Mk XI (Blue quality)
Tetryon pulse generator Mk XI (Blue quality)
Tetryon pulse generator Mk XI (Blue quality)

Bridge officers
Tactical (Lt. CMDR): Tactical team I, High Yield Torpedo II, Beam Fire At Will III
Engineering (CMDR): Emergency Power To Weapons I, Reverse Shield Polarity I, Emergency Power To Shields III, Eject Warp Plasma III
Engineering (Lt.): Engineering Team I, Auxiliary Power To Structural Integrity Field I
Engineering (Ensign): Emergency Power To Auxiliary I
Science (Lt.) Science Team I, Jam Targeting Sensors II
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 168
# 28
09-05-2012, 02:07 AM
Been a fair amount said on cruisers and escorts, but little on science ships, and what little has been said seems to be mostly negative.
I am an ENG captain but fly a Recon Sci, and absolutly love it, Turns on a dime with 2 RCS consoles, all DBB up front and BA, Tric and Cluster transphasic on the rear end,.
Am very aware that I am not going to throwing out high DPS numbers so dont bother trying, its all about setting the enemy up for the "Big Guns", using GW and whatever else will help out in that regard.
Works for me, have made it to wave 6 in "no win" and can usually get the optional in STFs, which i am happy with.
But back to topic, have tried cruisers in the past but they just dont work for me. Can see why they are popular, as mentioned previously, they are, regardless of the many variants, the base representaion to most people of what a Star Trek ship 'should' look like. At the end of the day, if it bears even a passing likeness to NCC-1701, it is pretty much going to sell like hotcakes. Cryptic is aware of this, and caters to the masses accordingly, hence there will always be an over abundance of cruisers ingame compared to the other classes.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,693
# 29
09-05-2012, 02:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldbeer72 View Post
Been a fair amount said on cruisers and escorts, but little on science ships, and what little has been said seems to be mostly negative.
I am an ENG captain but fly a Recon Sci, and absolutly love it
I haven't got anything against them (if I did I wouldn't fly one) it's just the science abilities could do with some more bite adding to them, my cruiser shrugs them off as if you poured water on the hull but regardless, the debate I'm trying to have is about balance and the NPC setup relative to player ship numbers, for example: The NPC health it set to withstand the damage capability of escorts (so what an escort takes out in 10 seconds flat take cruisers minutes) yet the NPC damage is set up for the larger cruisers (Isometric charges for example one shot my escort with 20k in overkill and my Excelsior barely survives them, my oddy shrugs them off with a good engi team to bring health up a little for the oncoming barely noticed barrage of disruptor/plasma fire), so that's completely wonky and surprisingly enough, doesn't work well in fleet actions and yet cryptic/PWE somehow expect us to defend a starbase from these monsters, 5 negh'vars train ISOs on the starbase and it's screwed especially if they hit player ships along the way.

I like the idea of strategy being returned to the combat system, but to facilitate this the ships (Both player and NPC) have to be balanced such that all players can defend themselves regardless of what they fly and can defeat NPCs in a reasonable time aswell, this is something Cryptic seem to have forgotten and yes build will vary in power and tanking capability but just because someone has focussed on tanking shouldn't make them incapable of destroying something on their own, I dish out a good 1700 damage per hit (powered up) across 6 beams, I take negh'vars in CSE alone and unaided in decent time but I go into the 20 player fleet action and spend 10 minutes bouncing tetryon weapons off a ships shields and taking more damage off it than I'm doing to it and it's supposed to be my level, it took me and two escorts to bring it's shields down, forget the hull, that took even more

But back to your point, I have nothing AGAINST science ships, I'm just asking for them to be made more capable of defending themselves and making life easier for others I read somewhere else "Science abilities have been nerfed to nothingness" and having played a science ship I have to agree
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,050
# 30
09-05-2012, 04:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
This is my point exactly, there are far more cruisers in the game than anything else and yet any cruiser built to survive almost anything the game throws at it (and still does 1700-1900 damage per hit with 6 beams) REQUIRES escorts to kill anything in good time (heck it spends a few minutes dealing with frigate shields in the 20 ship fleet action and it's a shield stripper)

sorry for stealing your post, it was good evidence for me considering I went completely ignored
This was actually not intended to reflect on the effectiveness of cruisers (if I understand your comment), but rather refers to their numerical advantage, if you want to call it that.

I am sorry, however, if I did not comment on your particular post - long day, brain isn't fully engaged, and TBH I think I missed most of the posts, since this is something I've wanted to comment on for a while.

On the subject of cruiser strength, however, I will say this - I have heard someone some time ago refer to playing STO with a cruiser as being on "easy mode." So there are others who think cruisers are too effective.
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