Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8
# 1 STF AFKers
09-08-2012, 09:33 PM
Something has got to be done about this problem! There is constantly someone AFKing through an entire STF...not contributing at all, but rolling on every drop, need of course, and gaining EDC's and dilithium for doing NOTHING. Nearly every single STF has one.

And before you say it, yes I have reported them. And yes, I know the old "run only with a fleet" advice. I don't have the time, the patience, or the sanity to join a fleet. Fleets, guilds, clans, whatever they are called in whatever game you can think of, are nothing but asking for trouble. So don't even suggest it. Furthermore, running with a fleet doesn't solve the problem as a whole, for me yes it would, but for everyone else, no it wouldn't.

What they are doing is essentially stealing IMO. They're getting something for doing nothing. And yet, Cryptic/PWE is doing NOTHING about it at all. These AFKer need to be perma banned. And the people that would do something like that are NOT the kind of people you want in the game anyways. They do nothing but bring the game down.

Come on BAN these players. There's NO excuse for just sitting there in an STF doing nothing.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,454
# 2
09-08-2012, 10:49 PM
First, relax a bit. You're mad, and wanting an extreme end to a problem you have.

Second, yes, that's true, but how would that be done? I'm sure they deal with heaps of reports everyday.

Plus, permanent banning? Pretty harsh. What would the requirements be? Multiple, consistant reports from a bunch of people, or would it just be one single report? Multiple reports is ok, but one report? The exploitation is tremendous there.

Also, could you act against the report?

I'm not disagreeing with the problem, OP, but again, you want an extreme end to the problem, and while I do want a fix as well, not one like that.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,014
# 3
09-09-2012, 04:03 AM
the only real solution could be rewards based on performance...like it is in fleet actions...with first...second...and third place loot table.

But CC does not count into that, so that would clearly favour escorts...which in turn is not a problem, since escorts are among the best ships to do those stfs.
but thats arguable, and i can understand that many disagree on that.
so, in my opinion...fixed values, that need to be achieved to get loot.

If you get above 2 million damage/healing you receive third grade loot...if you reach 5 million dmg/heal you reach 2nd grade loot...and first grade at 8 million.

those numbers are just out of my head now, and do not really represent real values.


as i said many times before, i think to punish somebody because he is not participating is wrong...the participation should be worth something, and loot based on luck and the possibility to sit idle for 15 minutes without doing anything clearly does not favour that.
Go pro or go home
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 357
# 4
09-09-2012, 04:07 AM
in my last 100 random stfs runs i have seen no one afking so your every stf is one afk players sounds massivly wrong, and if you have about somethink so big prob in stfs search a team and do it with them daily prob solved.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 5
09-09-2012, 04:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
the only real solution could be rewards based on performance...like it is in fleet actions...with first...second...and third place loot table.

But CC does not count into that, so that would clearly favour escorts...which in turn is not a problem, since escorts are among the best ships to do those stfs.
but thats arguable, and i can understand that many disagree on that.
so, in my opinion...fixed values, that need to be achieved to get loot.

If you get above 2 million damage/healing you receive third grade loot...if you reach 5 million dmg/heal you reach 2nd grade loot...and first grade at 8 million.

those numbers are just out of my head now, and do not really represent real values.


as i said many times before, i think to punish somebody because he is not participating is wrong...the participation should be worth something, and loot based on luck and the possibility to sit idle for 15 minutes without doing anything clearly does not favour that.
Here's why your suggestion does not work:
In a well run STF, there won't be many enemy spawn, and those spawning mobs will be low damage and low hp - that's simply what a good strategy optimizes for, and a quick run prevents too many timed spawns.
In a very badly run but still successful STF, there will be tons of enemy spawn, and a lot of those spawning mobs will be high damage and high hp - people get swarmed and swamped in them.

Result: the good group gets crap loot, the bad group gets rewarded for sucking hard, since they actually HAVE to generate a lot more total damage and heal to deal with and survive all the spawning enemies.
I've go parses of runs where failing 1k dps cruisers managed to get 3M damage and considerable healing in a long, drawn-out misery, and I also have parses that show the same 3M damage and a lot less heals on an at least decent 3k+ dps player on a good run.

Also: some STFs require someone to guard something (Kang duty ...) or keep something alive but low HP - this cuts into dps heavily, and you'd penalize those players having to do it, even if they're actually helping the group succeed.

Not to mention: you penalize people who are unlucky enough to end up as a replacement in an already running STF via queue. As if the choice between carrying a fail group or taking the leaver penalty isn't already bad enough.

To be honest, unless you really have GMs police events, using logs/replays - the best way to do things is by using moderated channels to form groups, where your reputation actually matters, and repeated failing/afk/leaving gets you banned. Of course that brings along other issues, but it's still a better solution, and ... it already exists.

Last edited by flekh; 09-09-2012 at 04:25 AM.
Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2
# 6
09-09-2012, 05:33 AM
well I have just come from an stf where we had an afk player, or more accurately a worthless sponger. I apologised to the rest of the team and left, as I refuse to put effort in to get a worthless sponger loot and a 1 hour penalty is not too bad.

I think we need some sort of kick vote requirement, if the other 4 team members vote to kick you, you are gone and someone from the list can join. I know there is potential for abuse, but about 1 in 10 of the stfs I join have someone sitting there doing nothing but clicking need on every drop, that's worse abuse of players in my opinion.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 7
09-09-2012, 06:07 AM
I'd probably have the server grade people on a point-based system for participation in each mission.

Thing that get you points for participation, awarded only once:
+5 fired a shot at the enemy
+5 used any debuff or tactical ability on the enemy
+5 was hit by an enemy shot or explosion
+5 used any healing ability
+5 flew within 10km of an enemy
+10 shields failed on player ship
+10 hull fell below 50% on player ship
+10 used any healing or support ability on an ally
+20 killed an enemy
+20 used any support/healing ability on an ally who was 50% or less hull

These are intentionally really simple things that a majority of players will probably do in a typical mission. If the player with the lowest participation has a score less than half the next-highest, that player receives a zero for the battle.

Server keeps track of a player's average participation. Players with really low participation raise a flag on complaints and get preferential attention.

Most multiplayer games have some kind of anti-AFK/anti-bot defenses. It's only reasonable that this game should as well.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 229
# 8
09-09-2012, 06:44 AM
Grading doesn't work that well. They have enough trouble balancing the skills, let alone deciding what criteria and how much it applies to put you on the leaderboards.

No offence momaw, but those criteria listed lend themselves to abuse although it's as good as try as any. You can't even use 'AFK for x seconds' since these people aren't really AFK. Even when you get a GM to ban them (it has happened), STO is F2P and Cryptic won't ban IP addresses (or a range of them)... yet.

And gaynir... that kind of solution is worse than the problem. Screwing over three other people because of one bad apple. Try to make it a group decision next time. You really want to be the kind of cop that deprives the kidnappers of their hostage... by shooting the hostage?

-----

Join a moderated channel.

-----

Someone will no doubt mention the 'report player' feature. Well, why do you think such players join the Public queues...
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,035
# 9
09-09-2012, 06:58 AM
I don't get STF AFKing, although I have only experienced it maybe two or three times. But AFKing in an STF run is just inefficient, I mean it even takes longer. If I "sit" there and roll on everything I could also contribute and speed things up.
-> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- -> Click if you prefer the old forum design! <-
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 10
09-09-2012, 07:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angrytarg View Post
I don't get STF AFKing, although I have only experienced it maybe two or three times. But AFKing in an STF run is just inefficient, I mean it even takes longer. If I "sit" there and roll on everything I could also contribute and speed things up.
I'm pretty sure STF-AFK'ing isn't about efficiency.
It's about being an ******* and getting away with it.
Actually, not only getting away with it, but being rewarded for it.
It's trolling/griefing with a reward and no negative consequences.
Which actually DOES make it a banable offense - it's just not getting enforced, and probably won't get enforced any time soon since that'd cost money and offers little to no direct revenue.
I mean, you can't sell customer satisfaction in the C-Store, can you? Oh, wait, that's what a P2P game actually does - but for F2P cutting these corners in par for the course, sad but true.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:13 AM.