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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,799
# 61
09-12-2012, 09:49 AM
wile the fleet vorcha is the best tactical in a cruiser you can get, its damage potential still pales in comparison to the bug, and its only half as maneuverable. durability of the vorcha is a bit better, and with the right doffs and right heals it can tank as well as a cruiser with a full complement of eng skills. but not if you load up on team support skills, it cant excel at that at all, its not really a cruiser in that regard. its silly to not build this ship with greedy skills and damage dealing, thats what its easiest to build it for, thats the build that will have overall the highest effect.

but it can be soooo easy to out maneuver when they use a DHC build, any cruiser that can use single cannons well can make a fool out of it, let alone escorts putting in any effort to stay out of its fireing arc. the fleet vorcha can beat escorts because it can spike so hard and deal meaning full hull damage at a rate they cant out heal, like they could against beam array tickle. with dhc's you just need a second on target to deliver heavy damage, if an escort is between TTs, 4 rapid DHC hits will drop a facing and deal significant hull damage. the fleet vorcha can absorb any spike like that it gets in return like its nothing, better then even the bug.

its just a question of how well the users can fly their ships in a knife fight like that. if you fly lazy and the fleet vorcha gets a lock on you too often, it can seem at the bug's level, if your an escort. a normal cruiser should be able to tank it easier then an escort, but a normal cruiser also cant deal enough damage to ever drive it away, like it could against an escort
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Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 09-12-2012 at 09:52 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,481
# 62
09-12-2012, 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
wile the fleet vorcha is the best tactical in a cruiser you can get, its damage potential still pales in comparison to the bug, and its only half as maneuverable. durability of the vorcha is a bit better, and with the right doffs and right heals it can tank as well as a cruiser with a full complement of eng skills. but not if you load up on team support skills, it cant excel at that at all, its not really a cruiser in that regard. its silly to not build this ship with greedy skills and damage dealing, thats what its easiest to build it for, thats the build that will have overall the highest effect.

but it can be soooo easy to out maneuver when they use a DHC build, any cruiser that can use single cannons well can make a fool out of it, let alone escorts putting in any effort to stay out of its fireing arc. the fleet vorcha can beat escorts because it can spike so hard and deal meaning full hull damage at a rate they cant out heal, like they could against beam array tickle. with dhc's you just need a second on target to deliver heavy damage, if an escort is between TTs, 4 rapid DHC hits will drop a facing and deal significant hull damage. the fleet vorcha can absorb any spike like that it gets in return like its nothing, better then even the bug.

its just a question of how well the users can fly their ships in a knife fight like that. if you fly lazy and the fleet vorcha gets a lock on you too often, it can seem at the bug's level, if your an escort. a normal cruiser should be able to tank it easier then an escort, but a normal cruiser also cant deal enough damage to ever drive it away, like it could against an escort
To be clear the comparison was Fleet Tor'Kaht to other DPS cruiser vs Bug to other Escorts. It wasn't a direct Fleet Tor'Kaht to Bug comparison nor Fleet Tor'Kaht to other cruiser roles..

That said while I prefer a aux2batt/tech doff CVS DEM3 Tet Glider Plas Leech AoE high pressure dps build, I can see a Fleet Tor'Kaht giving a Bug a run for it's money 1v1 via well timed TBs and APO, crf, bo2 alpha spike to go w/high pressure proc's like DEM3, phasers, tet glider, plas leech. Defense could be RSP2, epts1, Et1, he2, shield distro doffs w/the rsp2, he2 cooldowns reduced via aux2batt/tech doffs. Cruiser has an extra device slot as well.
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# 63
09-12-2012, 10:32 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
To be clear the comparison was Fleet Tor'Kaht to other DPS cruiser vs Bug to other Escorts. It wasn't a direct Fleet Tor'Kaht to Bug comparison nor Fleet Tor'Kaht to other cruiser roles..
My mistake. I thought you where saying the FL Vorcha was just under being on Par with the Bug in deadliness, and therefore needed a nerf.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 64
09-12-2012, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
To be clear the comparison was Fleet Tor'Kaht to other DPS cruiser vs Bug to other Escorts. It wasn't a direct Fleet Tor'Kaht to Bug comparison nor Fleet Tor'Kaht to other cruiser roles..

That said while I prefer a aux2batt/tech doff CVS DEM3 Tet Glider Plas Leech AoE high pressure dps build, I can see a Fleet Tor'Kaht giving a Bug a run for it's money 1v1 via well timed TBs and APO, crf, bo2 alpha spike to go w/high pressure proc's like DEM3, phasers, tet glider, plas leech. Defense could be RSP2, epts1, Et1, he2, shield distro doffs w/the rsp2, he2 cooldowns reduced via aux2batt/tech doffs. Cruiser has an extra device slot as well.
i was just stating my general opinion on things, not trying to directly address anything anyone said prior exactly. i would have quoted folks if i wanted to do that. the fleet vorcha is no bug killer though, not alone at least. i have killed plenty of them with help though in it
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 160
# 65
09-12-2012, 11:23 AM
I popped a bug in my Mirror Vorcha with my Engi in Kerrat last night. I stuck him in plasma & got a bo2 crit up his aft.
I'm going to have to get the fleet vorcha, it sounds like fun.
Time played in game. as of 9/12/12 (on my mains) Total 2907 hours.K'zoontite has been on active duty for 34 days, 3 hours, Bot Fly has been on active duty for 55 days, 4 hours, Poppa Capp has been on active duty for 4 days, 12 hours, B'zooka has been on active duty for 12 days, 22 hours,Tater(fed) has been on active duty for 14 days, 10 hours,
Captain
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# 66
09-12-2012, 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
the Fleet Vorcha doesn't out do other cruisers in the Cruisers role however.

It's an Escort. plain and simple. Its only better at this than the KDF scorts are because the KDF scorts are Terrible ships, compared to their fed rivals.

the Fleet Vorcha is a terrible healer, and terrible dps heal hybrid.

It is however great at kicking people's faces in with the proverbial steel toed boot.

The only escort that isn't 100 percent out dated by the Bug on the other hand is the mvam when built for CC
I agree if you want to call any cruiser OP its not the fleet tor... its a fun dmg ship... sure its better at that then the other cruisers designed for the secondary goal of creating dmg... but its ok cause its a cruiser.
As I have said before escorts have ONE role and ONE role only... so the game will NEVER EVER exist in a state where lockbox and fleet versions of the escorts are not better then the basics... there is no way for them to make the +1s interesting but not better.

Frankly something like the ODDY has completely replaced something like the star cruiser for a healer. We all agree the cruisers main goal is healing.

I mean really...
More Hull... More Shields... Extra console... Uni stations... Sensor Ann... Better Power layout for a healer... Healing Pets.... HMMM ya it in no way is better in every way then the ship it mainly replaces. lol
But I guess you can just p2w that one instead of having to lotto it so its all good.
Banned
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# 67
09-12-2012, 08:42 PM
However frankly the Oddy is Terrible at generating damage. And it's Terrible at CC secondary roles. It's too Fat. in that, the mirrorstarcruiser and the older AC still fufill duties that the Fat Ass (I mean Oddy... I shouldn't be so mean)

Also you must not be familiar with an mvam packing 3 system doffs, VM TBR and a tbr doff if you think that scorts can't CC sub.

(The Akira can as well to a somewhat lesser extent with plas1)

The bug could have been interesting, but different if it's sheer speed had come at the cost of durability. People went Crazy for Galors, and the Galor is nothing but an Excelsior fed a tiny bit of growth hormone.

It however was a Terribad heal ship.

Also, the Oddy is pretty far and away below the real best heal ship in the game which is the Recluse. No the oddy as a healer wasn't Okay. I railed against it almost as much as I did the bug. And I still refuse to fly one, not just because it is one of the most god awful looking ships in the game, (this is a Big part mind) but because of it's power over the other cruisers for raw healing potential. The oddy is also frankly a solution in search of a problem, even a Starcruiser is far and away capable of Overhealing. The Oddy is just that on steroids making it a virtual constant over heal platform. (the Recluse even more so) It wasn't like healing wasn't strong enough in STO before the Oddy. Where as the Bug, does realize some of the problems with DPS dealing not being adequate enough given it's ludicrous output potential.

Fortunately it's Terrible at generating damage and CC. Even when the LTC station is used for sci power, the damn thing is just too fat to be effective, even separated.

The oddy doesn't out and out replace any and all cruisers for a given spot. The bug replaces all but one escort, and only if that escort pilot is completely insane like me, and a total **** simultaneously and just loves throwing down some form of CC.

Last edited by ghostyandfrosty; 09-12-2012 at 08:46 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
# 68
09-12-2012, 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
Would you like an introduction to other songs by The Boss? (the nickname of the artist that made that song)
Yeah, 'til I heard "Murder Incorporated" I'd never really given much attention to the Boss. If you've got any suggestions, by all means, shoot me a PM (or email, this name+gmail ought to do you fine).

On topic:

Weapons (DHC's fired not with turrets but before and after), Power levels (125 or better), Tactical Cappy's buffs (really, AP:A+GDF are the heart of the class), Consoles (pick ones that match your damage type) , decloaking (gives a damage boost for the first few seconds out of cloak), DOff's (whether buffing your torp RoF to make a single much more useful or buffing your survivability to stay on target you mustn't underestimate their importance), and by far the most important, your teamates. It's the last that let's an escort press the attack far beyond its own ability to survive incoming firepower and creates openings that lets your Escort absolutely demolish its target.
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# 69
09-12-2012, 09:27 PM
i shouted down the oddy a ton back during its stat creation. its got every advantage to perform its primary job well, just like the bug has. at least the oddy doesn't role people with half the effort it takes to do it in any other ship. uber healing just makes a match last for ever, and doesn't make everyone it comes across butt hurt when it shows up in pugs, just board. and then theres the recluse, god damn.

i bought the retrofit somraw for the lulz, its actually pretty ok, the fleet version is basically a PE with a cloak and an extra console, so thats a good thing. the free retrofit that costs 200K marks actually has a functioning shield mod of .8, so only .03 behind the qin, all without the qin's fat ass, crummy 15 turn rate, tac ens and horrible pivot point. though its more fragile then escort average, the cloak is a great boon. the fleet vorcha isn't the only viable 'escort' to play around with on the kdf side, and this thing is a bargain.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Banned
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Posts: 846
# 70
09-12-2012, 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair114 View Post
Yeah, 'til I heard "Murder Incorporated" I'd never really given much attention to the Boss. If you've got any suggestions, by all means, shoot me a PM (or e
I think I sent you a PM. it's hard to tell with these garbage forums though
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