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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,577
# 11
09-10-2012, 06:34 AM
My experience is that Trek has always had 2 types of canon:

Hard Canon is what's in the movies and TV series.

Soft Canon is what's in the novels, comics, and other sources.

CBS gets to determine if any of the Soft Canon becomes Hard Canon - and that generally depends on how the rights were set up with the author. And it's not like CBS doesn't change Hard Canon when it suits them either.

Plus, CBS doesn't like paying royalites to authors - even their script authors. Tom Paris, in Voyager, was supposed to be named Nick Locarno - the disgraced Nova Squad cadet from TNG - and is even played by the same actor but was changed to Tom Paris so that they wouldn't need to pay rights to the TNG writers who created Locarno.

Hollywoodland is a strange place full of strange rules.
Career Officer
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# 12
09-10-2012, 06:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpedcore View Post
Or do you mean canon? Canon is whatever we've seen on TV or in the movies. So, for Starfleet it would be Phaser arrays on all ships but the Defiant, for them DC or DHCs. And Photon Torpedoes on all ship classes except the Defiant and the Sovereign- Quantums for those two.
And quantum torpedoes for excelsior as well (USS Lakota)
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# 13
09-10-2012, 06:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrincy View Post
Its easy to say ' books not canon'
But a lot of the newer books are licensed by CBS , so calling them non-canon is a bit of a grey area really.
In reality there are different tiers of canon .
Theres what most refer to as ' seen on screen' but then theres the books , the games ( sto for example ) that are all given the green light by CBS

So its really not such a simple case of saying , ' this is seen on screen , its official , that isnt , so it isnt official '
I know thats what gene kept on about in the tos and tng days , but recently its not so easy
All the novels are licensed, not just a lot of them and definitely not just the newer ones (some of them were licensed by Paramount or Viacom as the franchise got shifted around in the mergers and later breakup, but they've still been licensed).

STO is also licensed by CBS, and is incompatible with a number of the novels. Many of them are incompatible with each other, and a few were rendered incompatible with the show by episodes that came out after they were released.

Star Trek canon is more tightly controlled that Star Wars, which sounds odd since you consider what a stranglehold Lucas keeps on licensed works. Star Wars has its 5-tiered canon system with all kinds of rules to resolve contradictions, and that system encompasses all licensed works at some level. Star Trek has one level of canon, and licensed works are not included.


STO has its own internal canon. It includes the actual canon and the prime-universe side of Countdown, and while there's a handful of ships and characters from certain novels, major events from the novels are incompatible (Typhon Pact and Destiny being the more notable ones).

Last edited by hevach; 09-10-2012 at 06:41 AM.
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# 14
09-10-2012, 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
My experience is that Trek has always had 2 types of canon:

Hard Canon is what's in the movies and TV series.

Soft Canon is what's in the novels, comics, and other sources.

CBS gets to determine if any of the Soft Canon becomes Hard Canon - and that generally depends on how the rights were set up with the author. And it's not like CBS doesn't change Hard Canon when it suits them either.

Plus, CBS doesn't like paying royalites to authors - even their script authors. Tom Paris, in Voyager, was supposed to be named Nick Locarno - the disgraced Nova Squad cadet from TNG - and is even played by the same actor but was changed to Tom Paris so that they wouldn't need to pay rights to the TNG writers who created Locarno.

Hollywoodland is a strange place full of strange rules.
exactly , just because something isnt seen on screen doesnt make it not canon , its just a different , lesser kind , just figure it as ' alternate reality ' similar to the reboot.
if it wasnt , why would CBS ( and formally paramount ) officially license books , games and the like

theres one main tier , which includes all the TV shows and movies , then a separate one for everything else
12th Fleet
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016

Last edited by rrincy; 09-10-2012 at 06:42 AM.
Career Officer
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# 15
09-10-2012, 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrincy View Post
exactly , just because something isnt seen on screen doesnt make it not canon , its just a different , lesser kind.
if it wasnt , why would CBS ( and formally paramount ) officially license books , games and the like
because they get paid is why
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# 16
09-10-2012, 06:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daan2006 View Post
because they get paid is why
And because under international copyright law, all of those licensed works would be illegal otherwise.
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Posts: 1,018
# 17
09-10-2012, 06:50 AM
With STO is really difficult to say ' canon or no canon ' since its got bits mashed in from absolutely everywhere.
its 2409 , and we have NX's made as replica ships , we have Luna and Vesta classes from the novel series , we have entire classes of ships created by cryptic ( patrol escorts ) , so when it comes down to it as far as STO is concerned anything goes

I can understand how this annoys purists though
12th Fleet
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
Career Officer
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# 18
09-10-2012, 06:56 AM
when sto started leting bug ships cardy ships and so on be apart of starfleet this game stop being cannon or even close to it a very long time ago
Career Officer
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# 19
09-10-2012, 07:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daan2006 View Post
when sto started leting bug ships cardy ships and so on be apart of starfleet this game stop being cannon or even close to it a very long time ago
Why? STO explained the circumstances of the Bug ships being found, it is no more less canon than any other part of STO. There is only one pure canon, hard canon if you like, and that is the shows and the films. If you feel that way then STO is so uncanon that you should retire your Captain today!

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Career Officer
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# 20
09-10-2012, 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjohnsonva View Post
Why? STO explained the circumstances of the Bug ships being found, it is no more less canon than any other part of STO. There is only one pure canon, hard canon if you like, and that is the shows and the films. If you feel that way then STO is so uncanon that you should retire your Captain today!
they can explained till the cow come home dont make it cannon
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