Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 132
# 11
09-10-2012, 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
And thus, the long respawn counter discourages running off from your team on your own, which is a sure way to aggro half the map and screw everybody up.
I wish this statement was true, when and if I pug a STF. Most of the time pugs don't listen, most of the time pugs just run off and get themselves killed respawn and go get themselves killed again.

Thats why I don't pug the STF that much. Forming a group from the chat Channels (EliteSTF, Elite STF, PublicEliteSTF, and etc.) and you have a better chance of getting a good group instead of the randoms you get from pugging it. Also joining a fleet helps.
12th-fleet.com
Join Date: Dec 2009
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,475
# 12
09-10-2012, 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjohnsonva View Post
Your answer here verifies Atillo's suggestion. The Elite STFs are not hard, not when you have the right gear and know how to run them in a well practised team. If you are pugging Elite STFs then sure you're going to find it more difficult. The only thing left that is a challenge in Elite STFs is to get the optional on IGE and perhaps CGE to a lesser extent, the rest is a walk in the park and if you are even seeing a respawn timer more than once or twice then you need better gear, better team mates and more practise. Look up the EliteSTF channel to join in with a group that will show you how to do it and concentrate on ISE to start with (acknowledged by most to be the easiest STF).
One fault I DO have with them.

The right gear is SPECIFIC gear rather than GOOD gear.

So... A sniper rifle or melee weapon are needed for the end of The Cure. STF gear is preferred but Mk X will get the job done.

The Mark doesn't matter very much because there's little gear curve.

I'd much rather have the reverse. You can use any weapon for any encounter but the Mk would matter more.

I'd like to see a means of outgearing encounters as an alternative to skill. I think that can be done without a dramatic gear curve if they just offered things like mega-consumables that are STF specific (ie. "I suck at Infected Ground but I can spend 20 EDC for an Infected Ground only consumable that makes me not suck and I can spend 50 EDC for god mode.") Or if they gave dungeon reputation with passive boosts. So that your character gets an increasing passive buff in each STF simply by running them. And the first 50-100 runs have to be normal. (So, for example, you have five tiers of boost. And the first 1-2, you only get gains from Normal. Then from running both. Finally only from Elite runs. And you get an instance-specific passive stat that means that if you grind more than your skill level warrants, the grind will make skill less necessary.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 159
# 13
09-10-2012, 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsitsalot View Post
If you will notice, the respawn timer lasts as long as the effects of your ship's explosion. The last residue of ionized gas fades from view exactly as the timer expires. In this way, you cannot reinter the area until all that was left of you before is gone.

Personally, I would have made it where dying would immediately dump you back to sector space. Maybe even so far as to put you in a drydock at ESD. But that would make too many instant gratification seekers cry. Or tick enough serious players off because they die too much which would force Cryptic to actually balance things out so that gameplay is not just a zergfest.

There are litterally some situations where no matter WHAT you do, you're going to die at least once. If I am at the level called for by the mission, and I cannot avoid being killed no matter what, then it is a sign of flawed design on Cryptic's part.

Respawn and re-engage is their copout for not actually making sure that a mission is properly balanced. Balance doesn't matter when if you just keep at it, no matter how many times you have to respawn, you can win. Why not just put an interactable object right at the point where you would enter agro:

Press F to win.
The problem you speak of with balance is unfixable because cryptic made it so any mix of players can win. Go into an stf with 5 escorts sooner or later you will win. Go in with 1 escort and 4 science. You get the point. What would happen is noone would want to play unless they had the exact right mix of captains and ships. So people would quit or refuse to so pug and the game would get fruatrating and stagnant
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,679
# 14
09-10-2012, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaymor78 View Post
I wish this statement was true, when and if I pug a STF. Most of the time pugs don't listen, most of the time pugs just run off and get themselves killed respawn and go get themselves killed again.
"Discourages", of course, doesn't mean "prevents".

I once helped a neighbor install a wire around the bottom of his wooden fence to keep his dog from digging under the fence. We spent hours in the heat of a Saturday afternoon, installing the insulators, running the wire around, installing the transformer, making sure the sprinklers weren't going to spray directly on it.

When we were finally done, we turned it on, then let the dog out. He ran over to dig under the fence, got zapped, jumped back, turned his head sideways, then dove under the wire and dug furiously, barking in pain constantly, until we all unfroze from our shock and raced to the transformer to shut it off; he got out right about the time we finished.

Those wires are still pretty good discouragement, but some dogs are smarter than others.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 399
# 15
09-11-2012, 04:13 PM
guess i will take that as a confession that you dont want people to play.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 368
# 16
09-11-2012, 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by attilio87 View Post
It is a way to deter people from playing the Elite STFs if they don't have the proper equipment and/or know what they are doing.
Problem there is that it doesn't.

People don't want to have run (potentially) 140 Normal STFs to get the Veteran Gear so that they might have to (potentially) run hundreds more to get the Elite Gear. Since you can only get the Elite Gear in Elite STFs... well, guess what every lazy person who shouldn't be doing Elites STFs who happens to want that gear is going to queue for?

If Cryptic wants to deter people from playing Elite STFs they need to make the Mk XII gear available through Normal STFs at a lower drop rate, or put XIIs in the store for EDCs (60-80 a piece). Nothing else ever is going to work so long as it's mandated that you run Elites to get the gear. Trying any other deterrent is a fool's gambit that even a blind man should be able to recognize...
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You'll have to forgive the Zeroes and Lowercase... Perfect World stole my Oh's and Capitals.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 110
# 17
09-11-2012, 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyhappyj0yj0y View Post
Problem there is that it doesn't.

People don't want to have run (potentially) 140 Normal STFs to get the Veteran Gear so that they might have to (potentially) run hundreds more to get the Elite Gear. Since you can only get the Elite Gear in Elite STFs... well, guess what every lazy person who shouldn't be doing Elites STFs who happens to want that gear is going to queue for?

If Cryptic wants to deter people from playing Elite STFs they need to make the Mk XII gear available through Normal STFs at a lower drop rate, or put XIIs in the store for EDCs (60-80 a piece). Nothing else ever is going to work so long as it's mandated that you run Elites to get the gear. Trying any other deterrent is a fool's gambit that even a blind man should be able to recognize...
dont want to grind for gear dont play stfs..

i am getting so sick of pugging a group in elite that probably cant even finish a normal in time for the optional.. just because "elite gives better loot"

there is NO reason not to do normals to get the xi gear needed to start doing elites..

they should make it a requirement.. an accolade that opens up elites.. get a whole set of xi gear. it already opens up the tailor uniform, why not make it open elites too.

for space it should be a whole xi setup, engines, deflector, shields, weapons..

that way everyone that goes into an elite has the gear needed PLUS the nohow to win.


it really sucks that they made fleet gear NOT as good as stf gear on purpose..
fleet gear should be 10x better then stf gear, it takes hella to get and its not a drop you have to work to get it.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,242
# 18
09-11-2012, 05:27 PM
I would argue that the idea of an "elite" anything is a bad idea for an MMO. Yes, there's always going to be that small segment of the fan-base who are exceptionally good at playing but successful MMOs don't heavily cater to that specific expert sub-set. Ultimately a Raid is a Raid. If you want a Raid to be more challenging then increase the people who can play it at one time - that way you counter-balance the casuals with the experts within the Raid. Holding the best gear up over the reach of most casual players is not good business. It ticks off the expert players who have to carry the load and frustrates the casuals who can't acquire it.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 61
# 19
09-11-2012, 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by artanisen View Post
I really have to ask...

who bright idea was it to have long respawn counters?
dont you think thats alittle ridiculous and stupid?
Quick solution, stop dying.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 368
# 20
09-11-2012, 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aarons8 View Post
dont want to grind for gear dont play stfs..
Saying that solves nothing.

People are STILL going to be lazy and ruin PUGs by queuing for things that are beyond their ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aarons8 View Post
i am getting so sick of pugging a group in elite that probably cant even finish a normal in time for the optional.. just because "elite gives better loot"
And yet it is what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aarons8 View Post
they should make it a requirement.. an accolade that opens up elites.. get a whole set of xi gear. it already opens up the tailor uniform, why not make it open elites too.
Which still means absolutely nothing. It just adds an extra tier to this with zero guarantees that the people involved will have any level of competence. I've had far too many moments with people in PUGs where, despite displaying visuals from the STF sets, they still manage to consistently prove they have no idea how to run an STF effectively (and worse, can't even follow directions).

Hence why I suggest making Elite Gear available for EDC and at a LOW drop rate for Normal STFs. That way when someone tries Elite and gets stomped flat there's actually a chance that they'll stop and think to themselves, "Well, apparently I can't do this, maybe I should go back to Normals since I might still get the drop there, and though it will take some time, I can still work towards the stuff I want."

That's the only thing that will have a real shot of permanently skimming out some of the people who shouldn't be in those queues (since even then some people are going to want to roll those dice on the higher chances given by the Elite STFs).
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You'll have to forgive the Zeroes and Lowercase... Perfect World stole my Oh's and Capitals.
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