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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,681
Hi all, while I'm not a PvPer (and don't intend to be one in the near future), I'm posting this thread here because you PvPers clearly are the most competent to answer.

  1. a) What's your opinion on full energy weapon builds on escort-like cruisers? More specifically, I'm talking about the different Vor'cha variants on non-engineering characters. The fact is that while I've been trying different setups like DBBs and/or DHC with or without a torp (always turrets rear), my results were mostly inconsistent across the STFs I'm parsing. That's probably caused by the random nature of the team (and thus the role I end up playing). So I'd like to know if anyone has perhaps tested in a more controlled environment 4 DHC against 3 DHC with a torp, knowing that the 4 turrets in the rear also do drain some energy. Up until now, I've always been running with a torp on frontal arc focused ships to reduce drain and add a little punch to bare hull. But against shielded targets, an additional DHC might come in handy.
    Note: I'm asking mainly because I'd want to settle on the best build on toons that don't have access to the 2 lovely engineering powers that add power (EPS power transfer) and mitigate weapons drain (Nadion inversion).

    b) What about the drain on typical escorts? While a full cannon build makes one ens. ability useless on many ships, would a DBB be better than a torp? A DBB has also the benefit of more abilities available (a target shields subsystem might be useful on an escort).

  2. And lastly, has anyone tested what an effect might autofire on/off have on the drain of energy weapons? I know that energy weapons return the energy they drain right when they end firing, but still, might firing manually make weapons fire more "one after another" (so with potentially more energy for each) than "together"?

Apologies for posting it all together in one thread. I'm just too lazy to start more (and might forget about it, anyway). And also, all of the questions are somewhat related.

Thanks for answering.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia: Design that long overdue Tier 5 C-Store Raptor
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,430
# 2
09-15-2012, 02:25 PM
these are questions i would normally be able to answer, but at the moment im not completely sure. over caping your your weapons energy past 125 is how you can effectively run 8 energy weapons wile not loosing any damage dealing to to power drain, but its seems that that might only work with beam weapons and not cannons, been meaning to run some eyeball tests to get to the bottom of that.

running all energy is a way of min/maxing, you can run all tactical powers devoted a single thing so 1 ability effects every weapon, that can help with up time quite a bit, and is useful on ships with a low number of tactical stations. you also spend less skill points diversifying between energy and knetic. i find this reason enough to use all energy, without even going into how unreliable and situational projectiles end up being.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 749
# 3
09-16-2012, 07:50 AM
Regarding torps for bare hull hits: You won't get damage as high as torp crits, but DHCs especially Accx2 CrtH) hit just as hard as unbuffed torps.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,154
# 4
09-16-2012, 10:01 AM
With all cannons and turrets, you shouldn't have much problem with energy levels. I keep weapons batteries slotted, for being ready after a dash across the map. If you aren't satisfied with the levels, then consider one or two EPtoW for BO skills.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,681
# 5
09-16-2012, 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crusty8mac View Post
With all cannons and turrets, you shouldn't have much problem with energy levels. I keep weapons batteries slotted, for being ready after a dash across the map. If you aren't satisfied with the levels, then consider one or two EPtoW for BO skills.
I'm pretty much always cycling EPtW and EPtS on my ships (most importantly cruisers).

Thanks for your replies. Apparently, for now, you're more inclined to drop the torp.

Any opinions on autofire?
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia: Design that long overdue Tier 5 C-Store Raptor
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 853
# 6
09-16-2012, 10:53 AM
1. In my opinion an DHC & turret build is great.

To be honest the drain is hardly noticeable on an escort when using dual heavy cannons and turrets. The dual heavy cannon firing rate prevents the drain from being an issue.

As for a 4th DHC vs torp here's my procs and cons:-

4th DHC
+ Always firing and will do much more damage then a torp in the long run. Even unbuffed it's deadly.
+ Not wasted using it on a shield
+ Means you can focus your boff skills on cannon buffing powers.
+ A criting DHC hit can deal twice the damage of a torp and since these things fire a lot there's a greater chance of a crit.
- Extra power drain


Torpedo
+ If you need to kill something quickly and has it's shield facing down, this will deal a decent blow even unbuffed.
+ Can be very deadly when buff by attack pattern alpha (higher crit chance) along with other tac buffs.
+ For burst damage in PvE the torpedo is better then a dual beam bank + beam overload as there's obviously no power drain.
+ 3x Projectile torp doffs can be very reliable in shortening the cooldown.
- All it takes is for the NPC to turn a few degrees and it'll slam uselessly against a shield.
- Pretty useless against shield tanking NPCs, unless you're really really good at guessing when their shield facing will and knowing how long it'll take for the torps to reach the target. Even then, your torp may end up hitting a slither of a shield.

To be honest I'd always choose a 4th DHC over a torp any day. A DHC with the correct mods just deals so much damage it makes torps almost obsolete. Also it's better against targets who shield tank.

Personally I'd say 4x DHC, 3x turret and something else is the best for a DHC-able cruiser. A fourth turret *may* be too much of a power drain, but to be honest I've not noticed it and you'd still do more damage with 4x DHC and 4x Turret then you would with 3x turrets.

As for dual beam banks, I really wouldn't bother with them unless you were to use them like torps (overloaded dual beam bank has similar burst to a torp). DHCs are just miles better.



2. If you were to go manual and stagger your fire, alternating cannons so the least amount of power is drained, then you would see some benefit. However it'd be so fiddly and annoying it just wouldn't be worth the aggravation. Sometimes the autofire will hiccup and do this by accident anyway.

So I'd say stick with the autofire.
Previously Alendiak
Daizen - Lvl 50 Engineer - Fleet Avenger
Selia - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Avenger
Toval - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Mogai
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,430
# 7
09-16-2012, 11:26 AM
despite some evidence presented to the contrary, i find that overcaped energy with DHCs works. with no EPtW and leach with 4 dhc and 4 turrets, my energy would drain down to ~68 reliably every fireing cycle. with leach back on and EPtW1, my power literally didn't drop below 100 wile not rapid fireing. with and without eptw1 on my excelsior, there was a difference between draining down to ~70 vs ~90.

i did this eye ball test against 1 of the 4 nanaite transformer things in KAE, shooting at it alone for several minutes buffed and then only power buffed and could see clear and consistent differences. enough to convince me at least, i don't really care if others claim the test is flawed or imperfect, it proves to me that over caped weapons energy helps cannons along with beams
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,681
# 8
09-16-2012, 01:21 PM
Thanks both orondis and dontdrunkimshoot. Looks like torps are going away and my weapons power is going up on all my presets.

Also looks like I'll try a CRF 1 instead of AP Beta on my mirror Vor'cha.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia: Design that long overdue Tier 5 C-Store Raptor
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 30
# 9
09-16-2012, 05:10 PM
CRF1 works very well with dhcs and turrets on the Mirror-Cha. Extra sci abilitiy is a nicer fit for the cannon build then another tac team. But dont solely take my word on it
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,681
# 10
09-17-2012, 06:45 AM
Ok, so far, the numbers are good for the full energy Vor'cha. Either I was somehow playing better than usual, or it indeed does slightly better than with a torp.

Unfortunately, though, my weapon power levels keep jumping like crazy, even when I put them (virtually) above 125 with help of EPtW. (Both on beamboats and this cannon Vor'cha.)
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia: Design that long overdue Tier 5 C-Store Raptor
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!

Last edited by toiva; 09-17-2012 at 06:47 AM.
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