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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 220
# 31
09-13-2012, 07:49 AM
borg are boring now , they got overdone in voyager and they are way over done in this game , they are not as epic or as scarey as when they first apppeared in TNG which is sad ,
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,851
# 32
09-13-2012, 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruccy View Post
borg are boring now , they got overdone in voyager and they are way over done in this game , they are not as epic or as scarey as when they first apppeared in TNG which is sad ,
Well, as I said above, I was bored with Borg by the time we got to First Contact - and that was during Season 2 of Voyager even before they went Borg Happy.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,434
# 33
09-13-2012, 07:59 AM
I find it funny how there is such a discrepancy between what we do to the Borg every day and how the Anti Borg Conference said, if nothing changes the Borg will overrun us in less than a year.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,851
# 34
09-13-2012, 08:08 AM
It's all just talk because we know that year's never going to get here. It's always going to be 2409 - or early 2410 a the latest.

Their new tactic is much more frightening, though. They can probably assimilate an entire planet in a matter of weeks. X billion people added to the collective each month. The growth potential is astronomical. Look at how quickly the Borg adapted and upgraded tech in Enterprise, then imagine them doing that in Risa, Andoria, or Vulcan.

The scariness of the Borg is really more about sheer numbers and how quickly they can add forces now rather then pure technological superiority of the past. They're the zombie plague now.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,246
# 35
09-13-2012, 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
I'm assuming, with the loss of their Queen, the Borg are losing the battle by 2383; which is why they withdraw from the Quadrant. We were technologically equal, if not superior, to them at that point - they could not assimilate fast enough to offset their losses. They needed the 26 years to refortify and rebuild their forces.

I'm sure their tech has advanced in the last 26 years, but I'm sure the Federation's has too. The Borg return in 2409. They might have returned superior to us, or they might have returned as they left: roughly equal. It would also seem the Borg's strategy has changed as well. They went from believing conquering Earth would destroy the Quadrant to attacking and assimilating worlds along the path to Earth. They are essentially building and fortifying rather then going for the kill-shot. That, too, is not the actions of a technologically superior species.

Based on all the above my own opinion is that the Borg just can't assimilate our tech as quickly as they did in the past. And since the game's still set in the first few months of the invasion there's not been enough game time to see if that will change, IMO.
This is all possible of course but personally I don't buy it. Quote from Wiki:

In TNG's "Q Who?", Guinan mentions that the Borg are "made up of organic and artificial life [...] which has been developing for [...] thousands of centuries." In the later episode of Star Trek: Voyager, "Dragon's Teeth", Gedrin, of the race the Vaadwaur, says that before he and his people were put into suspended animation 892 years earlier, the Borg were just a few assimilated colonies inside the Delta Quadrant and viewed somewhat like a minor pain. Now awake in the 24th century, he is amazed to see that the Borg control a vast area of the Delta Quadrant. Seven of Nine comments that the Borg's collective memories of that time period are fragmentary, though it is never established why that is.


Whatever time frames we are to believe it is certain that the Borg have a massive head start on us, any of us in the Alpha Quadrant. If you think as a race how far humanity has come in 100 years, now how far will we be in a thousand years? If the Borg are truly thousands of years ahead of us then in reality (sic) there would be nothing we could do to confront them, we would be like ants trying to lift an elephant.

On a wider note the likelihood of us meeting alien beings when we begin to explore the galaxy who are at exactly the same level of development as us would, I think, be astonishingly small when only a few decades difference can make the results of any conflict so radically different.

No, any way you look at it the Borg have the advantage over us, their one and only weakness is the lack of individuality and self expression, where the imagination and ideas of a single individual can change the course of technology for an entire species (Einstein). However their sheer scale of numbers, the mass assimilation of any world they come across with all the varied and different technological complexities which they would gain the use of would, in this reader's opinion, leave us in no doubt of their overall superiority.

Yes the Borg need to be made much much tougher to beat.

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Ensign
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2
# 36
09-13-2012, 08:19 AM
I agree totally
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 64
# 37
09-13-2012, 08:35 AM
The quote you're thinking of, timelord, was "within three years" and the answer to how is Numbers.

I think the Borg are fine the way they are portrayed right now.

I agree with thecosmic1 about the state of technological advancement between us and the Borg, however, while the Borg may no longer be the unstoppable technological juggernauts they once were (where a state-of-the-art warship sporting the most advance weapons the game has can solo a standard cube with some effort on an elite STF), they still have sheer numbers on their side.

The Borg empire is HUGE and far reaching; and they are very good at focusing their efforts. They can also manufacture, regenerate and recoup losses on a staggering scale. Remember, they don't conquer, they assimilate, and not just for technology, but also population and resources.

And as thecosmic1 pointed out too, the Borg Strategy is different too, but that makes them even more dangerous. Every loss for us is a windfall for them; for each battle won they gain far more resources than they expended to achieve that victory; while for us, even a victory leaves us less well-off than we were before, crippled populations, decimated or dead worlds, destroyed installations...

The Borg have chosen a war of attrition and that is a war they WILL win (they have before, in ST:Voyager there was a species in the Delta quadrant that had resisted the Borg for CENTURIES but in the end their entire civilization was still assimilated).

The only hope the Alpha and Beta quadrants have is to change the nature of the conflict and that will take some doing.
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Last edited by adjournon; 09-13-2012 at 08:38 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 634
# 38
09-13-2012, 09:15 AM
Pitching in my two cents here - while the Borg aren't all that intimidating from a gameplay perspective (more frustrating than anything with the modulation gimmik) from a story perspective they're actually becoming more and more terrifying. They appear in a grand total of 9 missions counting the Tutorial and the STFs and in those appearances they've gutted a fleet, captured a Federation colony, assimilated a planet, traveled back in time to attempt to assassinate an important historical figure, captured and partially assimilated a Federation Starbase and several highly trained personnel despite said personnel having a working cure for their assimilation methods, assimilated another planet and a Klingon Fleet, traveled through time again, captured and assimilated a member of a species that is physically incapable of being assimilated, and then been utterly curbstomped by an Iconian vessel.

With the exception of the Iconian encounter every single time you've run into the borg it's been a matter of disaster control and containment. Your few victories haven't done anything but bought a momentary repreive and your advantages are few, far between, and being rendered ineffective before they can really be brought to bare. Gameplay wise they might be a bit disappointing, but storywise they're just as powerful and menacing as they were in TNG - if not more so.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 39
09-13-2012, 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by canis36 View Post
Pitching in my two cents here - while the Borg aren't all that intimidating from a gameplay perspective (more frustrating than anything with the modulation gimmik) from a story perspective they're actually becoming more and more terrifying. They appear in a grand total of 9 missions counting the Tutorial and the STFs and in those appearances they've gutted a fleet, captured a Federation colony, assimilated a planet, traveled back in time to attempt to assassinate an important historical figure, captured and partially assimilated a Federation Starbase and several highly trained personnel despite said personnel having a working cure for their assimilation methods, assimilated another planet and a Klingon Fleet, traveled through time again, captured and assimilated a member of a species that is physically incapable of being assimilated, and then been utterly curbstomped by an Iconian vessel.

With the exception of the Iconian encounter every single time you've run into the borg it's been a matter of disaster control and containment. Your few victories haven't done anything but bought a momentary repreive and your advantages are few, far between, and being rendered ineffective before they can really be brought to bare. Gameplay wise they might be a bit disappointing, but storywise they're just as powerful and menacing as they were in TNG - if not more so.
In my own opinion, that is a problem. While the story leads us to believe that the Borg are powerful and menacing, the game gives you the complete opposite idea. The story and the actual interactive part of that story say two very different things.

The Story Borg and the game Borg are not the same. That is the issue.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 40
09-13-2012, 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by canis36 View Post
...and then been utterly curbstomped by an Iconian vessel.
I saw that post, remembered the mission, and then was laughing for the next 5 minutes, because that is as accurate as you can get. When I played it on my fed, I already had anti-borg weaponry and the Iconian ship was more of a "Oh look, there's something else here." When I did it again on my Klingon acc, I wasn't level 50, I didn't have anti-borg weaponry, so I was only able to take on one cube with 100% certainty. I knew the Iconian ship was coming, I knew it would wax the borg, but to have it do it like it did... sufficed to say the borg didn't even knock 10% of it's shield face down. And this cube was whaling on it like no tomorrow. The Iconian ship shot maybe 10 shots tops, and the cube was GONE.

As for all the commentary on the Borg being weak... well look at it this way, we've had time not only to improve on our tech, but also had time to look at and STUDY OUR ENEMY. We learn from previous encounters, which is why First Contact was not a repeat of Wolf 359. The feds didn't get swatted aside like they did before, they were able to actually stand and fight. Since we were able to study them, and learn about their adaptation methods, we were able to beat them.

Before you say "Well the borg also had 35 years to tech up" remember one thing. The Borg don't improvise. They don't come up with brilliant solutions. They are computers. A hive mind. No individual brilliance, no sudden light bulbs. The Borg are like the Protoss from StarCraft. Technologically superior, VERY powerful, and a force to be reckoned with. But also like the Protoss, they don't change, or are VERY slow to change method wise. They can adapt to situations and technology in a heartbeat, but as for how they do things and what they do? They are still the same for the most part.

So what we lack in tech and numbers and ability to adapt to enemy fire, we make up for in the fact that we are creative, we each think, and we can each come up with different plans and have brilliant moments. Why else do you think our minds can beat a computer? Yes it's hard, yes the computer can predict our moves, but what happens when you do something that is unexpected and not logical? The computer loses. The same goes for the Borg.
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