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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 41
09-13-2012, 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post

.... SNIP

.....So what we lack in tech and numbers and ability to adapt to enemy fire, we make up for in the fact that we are creative, we each think, and we can each come up with different plans and have brilliant moments. Why else do you think our minds can beat a computer? Yes it's hard, yes the computer can predict our moves, but what happens when you do something that is unexpected and not logical? The computer loses. The same goes for the Borg.
It isn't that I don't expect to beat them, but beat them silly?

I want to have to make that brilliant move or un-expected move in order to defeat what should be a tough opponent.

Really, the Borg could use no shields but get a nice dampening field effect to reduce all incoming damage sort of like the Aegis set bonus. Next, give it a few abilities such as BFAW, TBR and it might become more of a challenge.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 546
# 42
09-13-2012, 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teleon22 View Post
In my own opinion, that is a problem. While the story leads us to believe that the Borg are powerful and menacing, the game gives you the complete opposite idea. The story and the actual interactive part of that story say two very different things.

The Story Borg and the game Borg are not the same. That is the issue.
It's called gameplay and story segregation. You ever play a game where you're the designated hero fighting against an Evil Empire/Overlord what have you that totally steamrolls the armies of the world yet YOU are able to lay waste to the hordes of monsters, turn coats, and underlings before finally laying the smackdown on Mr. Ultimate Evil himself?

Same deal applies here. You're the hero so you play by a different set of rules to make success possible. It's a staple of any kind of electronic role-playing game.

If you make the game Borg the same as the story borg then you might as well have the player click a button and roll a pair of dice to see if they "get lucky and surive the encounter" every time they run into the borg. To have the story borg match up with the game borg - at least as the story borg are presented now - the player would have no hope of overcoming them on his own and would need a deus ex machina or a ridiculously lucky happenstance to survive, much less prevail, every single time the Borg show up. To make the Borg as nightmarishly powerful in-game as they are in-story would require a different style of gameplay than you find in an MMO.

So to wrap up my argument - you'll not get what you want because of the inherent limitations of the medium.

Edit:

Just finished my post and saw you'd responded to another poster so I'll respond to what you said in that post here.

The Borg canonically have shields so they have to have them. Additionally canonically their ability to adapt to starship scale weaponry is actually pretty low it's just that their construction methods make them extremely difficult to kill and their shields have absurd amounts of power behind them. On ground they again, canonically have shields.

Finally, Borg already have Beam Fire at Will, they just prefer to use Torpedo High Yield, and giving them Tractor Beam Repulsors is a bad idea - you'd never be able to actually kill one of the bigger cubes, even in a team because the only NPCs that have it tend to do between 40 and 50% damage to cruiser hulls through full shields with that ability alone. Couple that kind of damage with Borg Shield neutralizers, and their Plasma torps and you simply can't stay alive long enough to do any kind of appreciable damage.

Last edited by canis36; 09-13-2012 at 11:21 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 211
# 43
09-13-2012, 11:16 AM
I agree and disagree with this argument.

In spirit and for the sake of immersion into the star trek universe and continuity I say yes. The borg encounters should not have cubes and then cubes should be large events.

Realistically I remember the nightmare that CE usually is and especially how it was in the dark days. That event has been live for over two years and there is still some jerk in there laying mines and griefing the event either as a troll or an idiot. I dont think this game needs another event to give the griefers something to fap over. I still from time to time do pugs for STFs (yes I am a masochist) and even elite STFs people cant bother with strats and working as a team. Every SBD I have been in since season 6 launched there has been some person in there camping just hanging out while the rest of the team works towards the objective. So no I do not feel that this game needs another large scale event.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 44
09-13-2012, 11:47 AM
I understand being the hero and all allows us to win. However, the Borg is not the lowly enemies. They are one of the top villains in Star Trek! Yet, in this game they are so easily defeated that they don?t even seem menacing at all.

I am not against being the Picard or Janeway of the game! Picard at one point suffered a defeat of sorts when he himself was assimulated. Janway, in her own right, her future self? sacrificed; she gave her life for her crew so that her past self and all her friends could live.

All I?m saying is, the hero shouldn?t fight these villians un-scathed. The Elite STF missions are fine btw. I?m talking about the Borg in other areas of the game.

And yes, I would think a 10 man instance fighting a Borg Cube could be fun if the cube isn?t given one hit kill weapons but cool options like BFAW, Borg Tractor Beam, Cutter Beam and something maybe even just a couple automated defense turrets.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 64
# 45
09-13-2012, 01:06 PM
If the Borg in the other areas of the game don't seem that menacing, try adjusting the game's difficulty setting, that should fix ya.
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STO Forum member since 2008, player since 2012 - funny story that
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 46
09-13-2012, 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjournon View Post
If the Borg in the other areas of the game don't seem that menacing, try adjusting the game's difficulty setting, that should fix ya.
LMAO! It doesn't go any higher than it is already set. Hell, I remember when there was no other settings at all. The game was even worse!

I also remember that Cyptic Nerfed the AI right before launch. In the BETA, three klingon Birds of prey could actually kill you if you were not fighting well. I also remember that other players would randomly join in the PVE instance and lend a hand. It was epic! Now, well... the game is much more single player PVE wise outside of Fleet actions/STF and gated content.

Anway... it doesn't go any higher mate.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,004
# 47
09-13-2012, 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
I'm assuming, with the loss of their Queen, the Borg are losing the battle by 2383; which is why they withdraw from the Quadrant. We were technologically equal, if not superior, to them at that point - they could not assimilate fast enough to offset their losses. They needed the 26 years to refortify and rebuild their forces.

I'm sure their tech has advanced in the last 26 years, but I'm sure the Federation's has too. The Borg return in 2409. They might have returned superior to us, or they might have returned as they left: roughly equal. It would also seem the Borg's strategy has changed as well. They went from believing conquering Earth would destroy the Quadrant to attacking and assimilating worlds along the path to Earth. They are essentially building and fortifying rather then going for the kill-shot. That, too, is not the actions of a technologically superior species.

Based on all the above my own opinion is that the Borg just can't assimilate our tech as quickly as they did in the past. And since the game's still set in the first few months of the invasion there's not been enough game time to see if that will change, IMO.
how many queen have the borg lost all ready 3? ya so one more dont matter and ya it was the same one to so i see her comeing back seeing she is the borg
the age of launcher... is over...!! the time of the ARC has come!!!!!!!!!
One ARC to rule them all, One ARC to find them,
One ARC to bring them all and in the darkness bind them!
actual joining date = no one cares!!!!

Last edited by daan2006; 09-13-2012 at 01:21 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,309
# 48
09-13-2012, 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daan2006 View Post
how many queen have the borg lost all ready 3? ya so one more dont matter and ya it was the same one to so i see her comeing back seeing she is the borg
The real issue here is that it doesn't matter if it's due to the Queen or whatever. In the time line the Borg withdrew from the Alpha/Beta Quadrants for 26 years. Within 5 years of Janeway's return the Borg left. Maybe we pounded them down. Maybe they had to go and elect a new Queen. Maybe they had to go and put down a rebellion by the Ocampa. Whatever the reason, they left. And then they came back 26 years later.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,068
# 49
09-14-2012, 01:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
The real issue here is that it doesn't matter if it's due to the Queen or whatever. In the time line the Borg withdrew from the Alpha/Beta Quadrants for 26 years. Within 5 years of Janeway's return the Borg left. Maybe we pounded them down. Maybe they had to go and elect a new Queen. Maybe they had to go and put down a rebellion by the Ocampa. Whatever the reason, they left. And then they came back 26 years later.
I would say that they withdrew to wipe out the main threat to their superiority which was not us but species 8472. They now had a weapon or a least the idea of a weapon (the nanovirus) with which to enter fluidic space and purge it of the Undine. We have little knowledge of the Undine's own adaption abilities but we must assume they are at least as advanced as the Borg or perhaps more so. This was a battle that took 26 years to complete, and now we see indeed that the Undine can be assimilated.

Once finished with Species 8472 the Borg simply reverted to their previous course of action, to dominate the rest of the galaxy including our Alpha Quadrant. This time though they will be armed with the advanced technology of the Undine which they finally successfully assimilated.

What we should be seeing in game now are assimilated Undine ships, these will or ought to be the next major threat and they should be significantly more difficult to deal with than a normal Borg Fleet. There could even be Cubes using Undine type bio-regenerative shielding/hull whatever, firing neural blasts that cripple half your crew, and with deflector abilities that open a kind of GW3 but instead of creating a singularity creates a rift into fluidic space which either sucks you in or allows reinforcements to enter our realm and give us a good kicking!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 103
# 50
09-14-2012, 06:03 AM
Tbh who cares about borgs, i mean this post should be about a new fresh and dificult STF that is even hard than borg STFs, because borgs are starting to smell a lot, and because its the time to more and exciting STFs that expand the terms of teamwork to the the limit.

Borgs stfs gone out of fashion almost 2 season away its time to have another threat, another
foe, another thrilling aventure to fill our dead time with.
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