Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 31
09-14-2012, 06:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
List of sci boff abilities and how they fail:
You left out Mask Energy Signature? but I?ll add and comment on that as well.

Quote:
Sci Team - needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT
I agree with you here!

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Transfer Shield Strength - Is OK
Agreed.

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Hazard Emitters - Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon
I agree but do not think that it should clear energy siphon or Tyken rift. That is what Science Team should be for or Engineering Team because really, power systems is the Engineers field.

Quote:
Tractor Beam - Ok as ship ability
Agreed.

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Tractor Beam Repulsors - Is OK
Agreed.

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Polarize Hull - A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed
I agree! In fact, I think that this ability should have a 20% chance to break a tractor beam.

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Tachyon Beam - Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%
I disagree with your buff idea, sort of? I think that each pulse should drain the shield facing that it pulses against and that the drain should be 400% better per pulse as it is now pulsing against a single shield facing.

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Charged Particle Burst - Same as Tachyon beam
Shield damage is too easily healed. I think that Charged Particle Burst should remove a single random shield buff from anyone hit by it. It should also de-cloak/ reveal enemy ships hit by it for a few seconds.

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Photonic Shockwave - Needs to get range and damage slightly increased
I agree, but only a slight increase, not a huge one.

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Photonic Officer - Needs to be made a lot more effective.
More effective could be made to be broken. Maybe a duty officer that increases duration of its effect.

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Gravety Well - Pulls too weak, damages too little
I disagree. If fully skilled and focused, GW pulls everything into it!

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Tykens Rift - Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts
Agree

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Jam Sensors - Basically useless. Needs remake.
I have been recommending that Jam Sensors should be more intuitive. I strongly believe it should placate for 3 seconds (no counter) and then de-buff the Targets ACC significantly (countered by Science Team).

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Scramble Sensors - Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff
Maybe a very small buff to its duration. Very small however.

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Energy Siphon - Needs a little buff
It won?t need a buff if they remove the shared cool-down with Tyken rift. Just food for thought on that.

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FBP - Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.
I wish that FBP did a 100% feedback to whatever it hit first on a target. That would go a long way in fixing this ability.

Mask Energy Signature is totally useless in PVE and PVP. It needs to be re-thought. I think, it should be replaced by an ability called: Mask Warp signature. What this would do is fool an enemy ship outside of 5km into thinking you were a friendly target. Thus, the enemy could not target you until you either opened fire or until they were close enough to see that you really are not a friendly. This would be epic on Carriers but whatever! It would at least then have a use.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 32
09-14-2012, 07:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teleon22 View Post
Mask Energy Signature is totally useless in PVE and PVP. It needs to be re-thought. I think, it should be replaced by an ability called: Mask Warp signature. What this would do is fool an enemy ship outside of 5km into thinking you were a friendly target. Thus, the enemy could not target you until you either opened fire or until they were close enough to see that you really are not a friendly. This would be epic on Carriers but whatever! It would at least then have a use.
Agree with the Mask Warp Signature idea. Ideally i'd see it put at 7.5km range. Forces enemy players to be well within firing range, while not being "too close". Might also want to include an "accuracy debuff" for the first attack from the enemy. If MWS is on, the enemy needs to have a clear sensor lock on you (i.e see you as an Enemy, and not Friendly), in order to be able to hit with weapons.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 784
# 33
09-14-2012, 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
List of sci boff abilities and how they fail:

Sci Team
- needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT

Nah, TT just needs to have its Redistribution Power removed. All of the "Team Skills" should only clear debuffs active when the power is fired.

Transfer Shield Strength
- Is OK

Yep

Hazard Emitters
- Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon-

Clearing energy drains, that definitely needs to stop. Engineering Team makes more sense for this role. Honestly this should only clear things that make your ship catch on fire, no matter the color.

The hull HoT is fine.


Tractor Beam
- Ok as ship ability

Anyone who doesn't understand the value of Tractors in PvP needs to pay attention. By stopping an enemy you reduce his defence to -15. When you combine that fact with how Def and ACC interact it should become obvious (crits, big ones).

That being said, TB is outta control since the advent of Carrier Pets that spam them. Few changes should be made to this power. I remember a Patch Note long ago that claimed that the effectiveness of each Tier of this ability would be tied to the size of the ship being tractored. I don't believe that mechanic is working. Fix that and and the seemingly broken counters (PH and APO don't work if the tractors start stacking... Danubes cough cough) and TB should be okay.


Tractor Beam Repulsors
- Is OK

Agreed

Polarize Hull
- A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed

Yep

Tachyon Beam
- Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%

Shield drains have depressed me since the day the new skill tree, and its resists, hit tribble. We told them then this ability was already too weak in PvE against huge HP numbers. We also warned them that this would kill it as a PvP power. They did it anyway.

What needs to happen here has been summed up pretty well and several times over the last 10 months.

First, The mechanics of all resists need to be changed so that at +100 you have a 25% resistance against drains and at 0 you have -25% resist with +50 being 0%. This would eliminate attaining effective resists by simply adding the right deflector and ignoring it on the skill tree while also keeping it meaningful.

While the drain powers themselves need to be individually tuned to that system with their baseline effect being tuned to +50, or neutral resist. Their link to Aux Power and the Skill Tree needs to be tuned here as well, with their baseline at 50 Aux Power and +50 Flow Capacitor Skill, not their maximum potential.

Second, The whole thing needs to be placed on tribble for extensive testing and tuning before being released to Holodeck. More resists may be needed or Drain Powers may need to be toned down after this or both or vice-versa.No Rush Job Here Please, let's get it right the first time.


Charged Particle Burst
- Same as Tachyon beam

See Tachyon Beam reply.

Photonic Shockwave
- Needs to get range and damage slightly increased

I'm still bewildered by the nerf this power received a few months back. The Stun and Interrupt were the most valuable mechanics of PSW. And both had already been nerfed by the new skill tree. It was like whoever had been assigned the job of rebalancing this skill was doing so from the past.

The Stun needs to be brought back up to something meaningful, say 4 second PSW3 (with a .5 second reduction for each lower Tier of the ability) against +50 stun resistance with +50 skill in Decompilers and scaled from there. This way someone could still dedicate themselves to using or resisting this power and still feel like they are getting something for their investment.

The knockback, again this was nerfed by the new skill tree into something laughable. I used to be able to knock an escort out of its danger zone if I invested the skill points. Now no amount of investment can accomplish this against even a mildly resisted opponent. This needs to be fixed in much the same way as the Stun. Give PSW3 a 3km knockback with +50 skill and 50 aux power, against +50 Inertial Dampners, with a 1km reduction for each tier of the power. Then tune it from there.

Again, leaving these changes on tribble for extensive testing is necessary for a succesful release should changes like these be introduced.


Photonic Officer
- Needs to be made a lot more effective.

LOL, just get rid of the power and give us some way to boost the effectiveness of sci powers every now and then. Attack Pattern Nerd or something. Seriously, there have been a few good threads on the subject of a Sci Boosting Ability. The best I read was DontDrunks. It may be time for a new thread on this issue too.

Gravety Well
- Pulls too weak, damages too little

The pull was always the most attractive part of GW. It is now useless in PvP, no matter what the carebears say. Yes, it's uber in PvE, but NPCs don't have resists. Even 3 points spent in Inertial Dampners almost completely negates the pull or leaves the player with several easy options of escape. The last time, and many times preceding, I was in a GW3, I only had to increase my throttle to escape with my engine power hovering at its usual 50. Even a target running resists should be required to DO something to get out of a fully spec'd, full Aux GW3, dontcha think?

This power needs the same treatment as many other sci abilities. Retune the abilitly (pull and damage), take resists and Aux Power levels into account and give it to us for some testing.


Tykens Rift
- Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts

DOFFs, well DOFFs shouldn't be taken into account when tuning Sci abilities. Sci abilities should be taken into account when tuning DOFFs. That's another thread, I believe, one which needs another round at the top of the list.

I'm starting to fee like I'm repeating myself. Just give this one the same treatment as every other ability we've talked about here. Establish a baseline, what you want it to do against what and tune the ability from there.


Jam Sensors
- Basically useless. Needs remake.

I like the ACC reduction idea Honestly, it's the most logical solution to the Jam problem. It should also have its fragility removed and it's duration and effectiveness tuned against Aux Power and Resists.

Scramble Sensors
- Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.

Never pleasant in PvP, usually just annoying though. Any amount of investment in resists brings this down to a laughable level. Does it need a buff? No! The resistances just need to be tuned down. Then if changes need to be made, so be it.

Energy Siphon
- Needs a little buff

The ability to use ES or TR was severely neutered with the new skill tree. Prior to this a Joined Trill Sci, fully Spec'd with their SciFleet and ST3 buffs going and running the appropriate consoles could shut down an enemy. But did you see what it took? Everything a Sci Toon could put into it. Everything, including the Joined Trill passives.

I don't believe the skills themselves took any kind of hit though, they even fixed the fragility of Tyken's. This is once skill that should be left alone until they retune resistances and/or give scis the ability to buff their offensive powers again.


FBP
- Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.

Fine as is, IMO. A Tac in a sci ship is funny, it works, but not as well as a Sci/Sci used to. Once we get them to fix sci boff abilities you'll see a lot less of the fully buffed FBP3/TBR recon sci ships.

Shared cooldowns that make it a lot worse:
- GW and Tykens this should take 2 sci ships to accomplish, sorry.
- Tykens and ES, You need the combined drain to acomplish anything. again, this should take 2 ships to stack on an enemy.
- TSS and FBP, when FBP can be used to your advantage, that's when you really need TSS. This I can agree with, this shared CD is a throwback to when they shared skills on the tree, deflector field, I believe. It is outdated and should be removed.

Feel free to disagree or add comments or suggest changes.
Comments in Lime
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post
We actually really don't like A2B, but it's a bit of a "third rail" situation. When we have the right fix to it, someday, we'll probably possibly maybe make it.

Last edited by brandonfl; 09-14-2012 at 07:45 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 735
# 34
09-14-2012, 08:22 AM
Added a few comments in yellow to the OP, after reading feedback.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 35
09-14-2012, 08:24 AM
On the topic of Photonic Officer and why it's so terrible.

TSS has a cooldown of 45 seconds.

PO1 takes this to 37 seconds.

PO1 lasts 1 minute.

TSS will receive no benefit from PO1 if it's triggered after the first 23 seconds of PO1.


Why? Let's say you trigger PO1 and 25 seconds later you trigger TSS. 35 seconds after that you're looking at TSS, waiting for it to come off of cooldown, when suddenly it jumps from 2 seconds to 10 seconds. PO1 wore off, and the reduced time was added back on.

This is throw stuff at the screen bad.

There's no reason it has to work this way, given that the Aux2Batt Technician cooldown does not. The Technician reduction just subtracts a set number of seconds from the current cooldown, literally taking seconds off the clock, without the possibility of adding them back on.

PO's effect can't help the abilities that need it most, the ones with really long cooldowns. The Technician reduction can be used multiple times on abilities like RSP until they hit their global.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 36
09-14-2012, 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
On the topic of Photonic Officer and why it's so terrible.

TSS has a cooldown of 45 seconds.

PO1 takes this to 37 seconds.

PO1 lasts 1 minute.

TSS will receive no benefit from PO1 if it's triggered after the first 23 seconds of PO1.


Why? Let's say you trigger PO1 and 25 seconds later you trigger TSS. 35 seconds after that you're looking at TSS, waiting for it to come off of cooldown, when suddenly it jumps from 2 seconds to 10 seconds. PO1 wore off, and the reduced time was added back on.

This is throw stuff at the screen bad.

There's no reason it has to work this way, given that the Aux2Batt Technician cooldown does not. The Technician reduction just subtracts a set number of seconds from the current cooldown, literally taking seconds off the clock, without the possibility of adding them back on.

PO's effect can't help the abilities that need it most, the ones with really long cooldowns. The Technician reduction can be used multiple times on abilities like RSP until they hit their global.
EXACTLY!!! If Photonic Officer worked in the same way as the Technician Duty Officer, but however, only worked for say Science Abilities, that would be great!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,794
# 37
09-14-2012, 08:53 AM
Take some of the many things Hazard Emitters clears and give them to Polarize Hull.

I think it should be like this:

Hazard Emitters clears things that attack your ship's systems: Energy Siphon, Tachyon Beam, Viral Matrix, and so on.

Polarize Hull should clear things that attack the hull: plasma fires, theta radiation, warp plasma, tractor beams, etc.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 38
09-14-2012, 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by futurepastnow View Post
Take some of the many things Hazard Emitters clears and give them to Polarize Hull.

I think it should be like this:

Hazard Emitters clears things that attack your ship's systems: Energy Siphon, Tachyon Beam, Viral Matrix, and so on.

Polarize Hull should clear things that attack the hull: plasma fires, theta radiation, warp plasma, tractor beams, etc.
I really don't like that idea at all. It doesn't make sense lore wise or gameplay wise. HE should clear hull hazzards/ fire/plasma etc.

PH should help break holds and damage. Just like in the TV show.

Abilities need to be intuitive to some degree.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 112
# 39
09-14-2012, 09:32 AM
I agree with most of whats been discussed already except for Viral Matrix.

It's fine vanilla, but with System Engineers, I'd say it's a little overpowered. Having my Weapons, Aux and Engines offline for 10 secs is ridiculous.
Join Date: Sep 2009
[23:35] Horta deals 1738411 (1538303) Toxic Damage to Centurion Engineer with Corrosive Acid.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,521
# 40
09-14-2012, 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonfl View Post
Comments in Lime
ive made a whole bunch of sci suggestions lol, which was it that you liked? a sci overhaul really needs to feature the sci skill tree being rearranged...
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
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