Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 134
# 41
09-14-2012, 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I'd be interested in hearing more opinions on all of the above. As well as testing scenarios, if you run them, even if only anecdotal (no solid figures, that is).
Per your request:

Science Team
Agree with the OP, the debuff clear needs to last 10 seconds. Though, this is a great ability now that they Development DOFFs are in. Gives us a 15 sec shield heal to match Auxiliary to Structural.


Transfer Shield Strength
Agree it's okay. Would be nice if it healed a little more considering the 45sec cooldown but that's just me being greedy.


Hazard Emitters
I'm torn on this one. On one hand, it does clear far to many things making it to awesome. On the other, the 45sec cooldown is to long the clear effect to short for plasma fires. When fighting Borg, you'll get plasma fired so frequently some times. In the 30secs of vulnerability, a light hulled escort can get burned to the ground while waiting for the timer.


Tractor Beam
I to think this should be an innate ship ability. Allow every ship to use it.
But since that's not likely to happen I think the most important thing is to make it so that it locks your target into a relative position to you. As it is now, it's kind of useless. You stop a guy from moving, but you keep moving. It should be where your target it 3km ahead of you, you hit tractor beam, he remains 3km ahead of you no matter if you turn, speed up, slow down. Then it could be useful for readying a torpedo volley against a weak shield facing.


Tractor Beam Repulsors
These work great.


Polarize Hull
I think this works fine. It's a nice resist boost and breaks tractor beams. Hate that its on the same system as hazard emitters though. You need both against the Borg, but if you have both neither is ever available when you need them.


Tachyon Beam
This one is indeed useless right now. It just doesn't drain enough shields for the amount of effort required. Maybe instead of draining shields, it disrupts them. So you fire it, and for those 10 seconds, the shield facing it hits is gone. Once it ends, the shield returns to what it was before.

Or maybe make it instead do hull damage and penetrate shields.


Charged Particle Burst
Also doesn't do enough shield damage. It's nice that it's AoE so it shouldn't be to overpowered, but its useless unless you're running level 3 with full aux and skill training. And then only barely.


Photonic Shockwave
Agree with the OP, better range and more reliable stun but other than that it's not bad.


Photonic Officer
I'm torn on this one. Like the OP, I almost never use it because it seems to lack effectiveness. Wasting a BO skill just to be able to make other ones cycle faster some of the time. But it can be exploited some with the technicians, aux to battery and the doffs, though that requires a lot committment and makes auxiliary powers useless, which rules out a lot of science abilities. And its the science abilities, ironically, that benefit from this the most, since they typically have the longest timer.


Gravity Well
I think this one is great. The only thing I think needs to be changed is move level 1 down to a Lieutenant spot, level 2 to Lt. Cmdr. I always thought having level 2 and 3 as commander was just dumb. Whose going to use level 2? It would also allow cruisers and escorts who only have LT slots be able to try it out.


Tykens Rift
This one works fine.


Jam Sensors
THis needs to be an AOE. When you're getting pounded and need to get people to stop shooting you, you're usually getting shot at by a lot of things. And, since your target is the one whose jammed and also the one you're shooting, it breaks to easily.


Scramble Sensors
This use to be awesome, now it's useless without putting points into really expensive skills. Needs some tweaking.


Energy Siphon
Its okay, but doesn't feel like it drains enough.


Feedback Pulse
Generally feels to not be worth it. Could use a slight boost.


Mask Energy Signature
Never used it.


Viral Matrix
Haven't used it since it was nerfed back in the early days so can't really say. Feels like its no good, but nothing uses it anymore so don't know.


Now, that's my thoughts on Science abilities as they are. At one point there was talk about adding more BOFF abilities but that never happened. Engineering and Tactical could really use some more Ensign level abilities. Tac at least got the beam target ones added. Engineering needs love there, and really, in general. I like my cruisers, but have a hard time finding things to equip in all the enginering boff slots that aren't repeats.

I'll save my ideas for new BOFF abilities for a separate post so as not to get off topic.
"Once more unto the breech..."

Rogue Shipyard Blog
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 42
09-14-2012, 10:07 AM
I'm chuckling at everyone hating on the Charged Particle Burst. It's already effective enough, because it reveals cloaked ships!. That's really what it's meant for, there's other ways to mess with shields. Maybe buff Tachyon Beam to address that. Charged Particle Burst really ought to be the 'sensor scan' for Tactical and Engineering officers. Maybe toss a small debuff onto it rather than doing shield damage. . .but don't make it a 'strong shield ripper'. It's already frustrating enough as a decloaker, which can easily lead to the death of any BoP or Raptor lurking that close if you're sticking close to other friendlies (which you really should be doing in PvP, at least), or to the death of any hit-and-run BoP pilot (such as myself) by throwing off his exit plan timing. A small debuff would give it some usefulness in PvE, as well. Just don't make it a deadly shield-ripper, because the decloaking is bad enough as it is.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 846
# 43
09-14-2012, 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
I'm chuckling at everyone hating on the Charged Particle Burst. It's already effective enough, because it reveals cloaked ships!. That's really what it's meant for, there's other ways to mess with shields. Maybe buff Tachyon Beam to address that. Charged Particle Burst really ought to be the 'sensor scan' for Tactical and Engineering officers. Maybe toss a small debuff onto it rather than doing shield damage. . .but don't make it a 'strong shield ripper'. It's already frustrating enough as a decloaker, which can easily lead to the death of any BoP or Raptor lurking that close if you're sticking close to other friendlies (which you really should be doing in PvP, at least), or to the death of any hit-and-run BoP pilot (such as myself) by throwing off his exit plan timing. A small debuff would give it some usefulness in PvE, as well. Just don't make it a deadly shield-ripper, because the decloaking is bad enough as it is.
There are far far better ways to bring cloaked ships out of hiding.

Mines, Plasma, Tykens, Sensor scan, TBR, Tractor beam, VM (shuts down aux), Torpedoes that seek cloaked ships. Torps fired as a bop runs out to battlecloak, oh let's also not forget PSW still knocks ships out of cloak and has the exact same blast radius, oh and it still knocks off Extends, which means it actually Does Something unlike CPB.

The shield rip was always it's primary attribute. No one that's Serious about pvp fields CPB if they have any skill because it's such a worthless ability now.

Last edited by ghostyandfrosty; 09-14-2012 at 10:19 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 44
09-14-2012, 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostyandfrosty View Post
There are far far better ways to bring cloaked ships out of hiding.

Mines, Plasma, Tykens, Sensor scan, TBR, Tractor beam, VM (shuts down aux), Torpedoes that seek cloaked ships. Torps fired as a bop runs out to battlecloak, oh let's also not forget PSW still knocks ships out of cloak and has the exact same blast radius, oh and it still knocks off Extends, which means it actually Does Something unlike CPB.

The shield rip was always it's primary attribute. No one that's Serious about pvp fields CPB if they have any skill because it's such a worthless ability now.
Sad but true story!!! Now... i'm all for CPB being a poor mans Sensor Scan!!! That effects shield resistances!!! That would mean something PVE and PVP wise.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 844
# 45
09-14-2012, 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
ive made a whole bunch of sci suggestions lol, which was it that you liked? a sci overhaul really needs to feature the sci skill tree being rearranged...
The one about rearranging the science portion of the skill tree. Adding a replacement for "Starship Operations" and giving us powers that boost that skill. That one.
Quote:
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ RIYOTT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ: Have you wondered that maybe all the things they've added to the gaem lately is to literally make PvP unbearable? Because everything they've added has no use in PvE at all; we know the big boss hates 14 yo min maxers
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,619
# 46
09-14-2012, 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonfl View Post
The one about rearranging the science portion of the skill tree. Adding a replacement for "Starship Operations" and giving us powers that boost that skill. That one.
i need to find that thread and re post that, now that this is the main topic of discussion around here
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 47
09-14-2012, 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
List of sci boff abilities and how they fail:
Edited in yellow

Sci Team
- needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT. Seems to be disputed.

Transfer Shield Strength
- Is OK

Hazard Emitters
- Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon, tykens... should only clear applied debuffs (plasma fire, acetone etc), not location debuffs (like siphon, tykens)

Tractor Beam
- Ok as ship ability Higher levels should hold better. )"as ship ability" means not ok as pet/mine ability)

Tractor Beam Repulsors
- Is OK

Polarize Hull
- A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed

Tachyon Beam
- Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%. To clarify: against a NPC or a player with resists, this 10 sec ability will drain 10% of their shields. fixing resists would help in pvp, but raising efficiency would help both PvE and PvP

Charged Particle Burst
- Same as Tachyon beam

Photonic Shockwave
- Needs to get range and damage slightly increased. And stun properly! Damage should be tied to aux power (?)

Photonic Officer
- Needs to be made a lot more effective.

Gravety Well
- Pulls too weak, damages too little

Tykens Rift
- Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts

Jam Sensors
- Basically useless. Needs remake.

Scramble Sensors
- Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.
- Crap in PvE, as all the good NPCs are immune

Energy Siphon
- Needs a little buff

FBP
- Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.

Mask Energy Signature
- Works ok?

Viral Matrix
- Ok for pvp at the moment for three reasons:
1. Doffs make it a lot more potent
2. Is not aux dependant
3. Everything else is worse.
- useless for PvE


Shared cooldowns that make it a lot worse:
- GW and Tykens
- Tykens and ES, You need the combined drain to acomplish anything.
- TSS and FBP, when FBP can be used to your advantage, that's when you really need TSS.
- HE and PH

Feel free to disagree or add comments or suggest changes.
1. Sci Team is fine high level is nice burst shield repair, counters various other boffs.

2. TSS is ok, but I'd like all aux based abilities to have much higher rater of return for aux power above 100 and much less effectiveness below 50 as general rule of them.

3. H.E. is fine w/the exception of the aux issue. If AoE debuffs effect allies as well as enemies I'd be more open to reducing H.E. effectiveness. Also, I'd consider making it a lt, lt com, com ability and swapping it w/FBP.

4. TB, Agree Boff abilities should always be stronger than NPC or gear based abilities.

5. TBR, I'd tie damage to aux again and boost damage more for aux greater than 100.

6. PH, seems fine to me.

7. Tach Beam, if it countered ship % shield regen (not boff regens) and BFI doffs I'd be fine w/it. Anti RSP of sorts.

8. CPB - Tough to balance b/c AoE ability. Again I think high Aux requirement for decent performance a must. Needs a boost for sure though aside from Doff procs.

9. PSW - add a ministun of .1 sec or so for the interupt value out to 5km. Make stun duration aux dependent w/greater results for over 100 aux.

10. Photonic Officer - surpassed by tech doffs and tac initiative. Needs to be remade from scratch imo.

11. GW too easy to escape event horizon. Should hold all ships similar to Web console. Perhaps heavy damage if you get pulled into .5km of center otherwise weak damage. I'd lengthen the cooldown, but make the event horizon 5km and nearly unbreakable w/stronger pull on low inertia ships.

12. TR Doff stacking an issue. Resists in general need looking at here, they're too strong.

13. Jam - Imo it's fine. Basically anti boss PvE skill.

14. Scramble Sensors - It's fine, assuming Feds can't see KDF cloaked ships when Feds get scrambled.

15. Energy Siphon - It's fine as a gain, perhaps look at resists here similar to TR.

16. FBP - Drop captain power boost, drop it to a en, lt, lt commander skill. Again over 100 aux for more significant damage return. This way it's more available to all ships as a modest deterant.

17. VM - Stack Doff procs an issue, but w/maint doffs I think 1 proc/VM instance is fine.

Imo, H.E. and PH shared cooldown works since they can basically be chained. If a player wants to spike hull resists they can also use hazzard doffs w/bfi and ramming speed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 118
# 48
09-14-2012, 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
- needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT. Seems to be disputed.
Used to boost science Attacks before new skill tree. In my opinions this behavior should be restored. You could re-use the purple science boost code for that.
+ x to all science skills for 10,20,30 seconds

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Transfer Shield Strength
- Is OK
Yes, it's ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Hazard Emitters
- Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon, tykens... should only clear applied debuffs (plasma fire, acetone etc), not location debuffs (like siphon, tykens)
I agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Tractor Beam
- Ok as ship ability Higher levels should hold better. )"as ship ability" means not ok as pet/mine ability)
I agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Tractor Beam Repulsors
- Is OK
No it's not.
Actually repulsion effect is tied to aux level, but damage is not.
Damage should also tied to aux level, otherwise this is the perfect example of science ability that favours tac builds with zero auxiliary levels, because if you don't repel your opponent, he stays within the 5km range and at the end you inflict more damage with low aux.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Polarize Hull
- A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed
Nah, ph is good

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Tachyon Beam
- Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%. To clarify: against a NPC or a player with resists, this 10 sec ability will drain 10% of their shields. fixing resists would help in pvp, but raising efficiency would help both PvE and PvP
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Charged Particle Burst
- Same as Tachyon beam
I agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Photonic Shockwave
- Needs to get range and damage slightly increased. And stun properly! Damage should be tied to aux power (?)
Yes, damage should be tied to aux power AND 100 points in particle generators should aproximately multiply by 2 its base damage.
As a reference, a psw3 should deliver 20k damage with 125 aux and 200 points in particle generators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Photonic Officer
- Needs to be made a lot more effective.
By more effective, in my opinion it should work as a cooldown reduction, similar to the effect of the technicians doff.
In that case, its cooldown should be reduced to 45 secs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Gravety Well
- Pulls too weak, damages too little
I agree, pull should be tied to graviton generators and aux level
Damage should benefit *2 from particle generators skill points and consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Tykens Rift
- Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts
The chance for 2-3 doff proc to happen are extremely low, so this is not a problem (you can consider it like a critical hit from energy weapons, a lucky strike).
It is too weak as normal, I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Jam Sensors
- Basically useless. Needs remake.
It works as intended

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Scramble Sensors
- Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.
- Crap in PvE, as all the good NPCs are immune
It is fine as it is.
Should work in PvE, at least against small crafts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Energy Siphon
- Needs a little buff
It is fine, the problem is that it's cleared too easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
FBP
- Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.
I agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Mask Energy Signature
- Works ok?

No, it's crap
Does not work in PvP, does not work in combat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Viral Matrix
- Ok for pvp at the moment for three reasons:
1. Doffs make it a lot more potent
2. Is not aux dependant
3. Everything else is worse.
- useless for PvE
Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
I agree, it's ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
Shared cooldowns that make it a lot worse:
- GW and Tykens
- Tykens and ES, You need the combined drain to acomplish anything.
- TSS and FBP, when FBP can be used to your advantage, that's when you really need TSS.
- HE and PH
I agree
I'd add Photonic Officer and Photonic Shockwave
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 49
09-14-2012, 01:47 PM
I forgot about the photonic fleet. This ability is a joke. It's weak and deals no damage, so what's the point? At least if we have a photonic fleet it should be a lot more tanky and draw fire... Our space security team, but for scis!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 27
# 50
09-14-2012, 02:56 PM
Mask energy sig should be weak AOE cloak centered on the caster.
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