Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
Some basics before I begin. I will not be including fleet ships or lock box ships in any of my examples since they are not available to everyone all the time and are not account wide. I will be including all c-store ships and any ships that are defunct due to play levels being deleted. I will not be discussing the difference in their stats at equivalent levels since the inherent differences are what makes then unique. I will do my best to completely balance the two sides but I will also do my best to keep them unique. I will split this into multiple posts to make it easier to read.

First the KDF, some basic numbers. Currently there are 34 available Klingon ships including the now nonexistent levels of play and c-store options. These break down as:

1 starter ship - no c-store options
3 LTC ships - no c-store options
3 CMDR ships - 6 c-store options with 1 weapon, 4 console abilities, and 1 unique hangar pet
3 CAPT ships - 6 c-store options with 5 console abilities and 1 unique hangar pet
5 BG/MG ships - 2 c-store ships with 1 console ability, 1 unique hangar pet, and 1 ship bound carrier pet.
0 LTG ships - 1 vet ship, 4 c-store ships, all abilities at this level are ship bound but, 2 non console ship abilities 5 console abilities and 2 carrier specific pets.

It?s worth noting that at maximum level there are 6 ship classes available and if you include c-store ships there are 5 classes available at commander and captain. The classes are Raiders, Escorts, Cruisers, Science vessels, flight deck cruisers, and carrier vessels.
The KDF has no dedicated science ships in their basic ship lists but do gain access to science vessels through c-store purchases, but only from the Commander through Brigadier general/Major general levels. Almost all KDF ships have some kind of cloaking device installed and can equip cannons. The KDF has no variant of any existing ship available.




In comparison, the Federation has 46 available ships including c-store ships. These break down as:

1 starter ship -3 c-store options with 2 console powers and 1 weapon 1 non c-store option with 1 console
3 LTC ships - 3 c-store options with 3 console powers
3 CMDR ships - 3 c-store options with 3 console abilities
3 CAPT ships - 3 c-store options with 1 weapon and 2 console abilities
6 RA/RAUH ships - 3 c-store options with 2 console abilities and one ship bound ability. Each of the original 3 ship classes has 1 variant, these variants have a different ensign only level slot and a single console variation.
0 VA ships - 1 vet ship, 13 c-store options all abilities at this level are ship specific. 1 weapon, 1 unique carrier pet, and 10 console abilities.

It's worth noting that until VA level there are only 3 ship classes to choose from, after VA level there are 5. There is no raider class vessel or flight deck cruiser available period and only one carrier. The federation does get the escort carrier class of vessel. The federation has only 2 vessels that cloak and only escorts, carriers and the dreadnaught cruiser can equip cannons. The federation does get greater variation at the admiral levels than the KDF with the available variants and the 2 c-store consoles than can be put into lower lever versions of the same ships.

So here is my assessment, there needs to be the same number of ships available to both factions at al levels. This includes the levels that don't currently exist for klingons but they could be added anyway if only to sell the attached consoles. There needs to be the same numbers of classes available at all levels of play, personally, I feel that if there is a science vessel available for sale to the KDF there should be a raider for sale to the Federation, and that, the escort carrier needs to be retrograded back to the Commander level. The argument that raiders are unique to the KDF and that's why the Fed shouldn't get one falls on its face when you remember that the Science vessel is supposed to be unique to the Fed but the KDF can get one. Granted the Gorn ships are slightly different so a fed raider should be slightly different.



My recommendations are:

1.Add 4 c-store starter ships to the KDF. A starter escort, a starter cruiser, a better starter BOP, and maybe a starter non klingon ship.
2.Add 3 LTC level c-store ships to the KDF.
3.Add 3 CMDR level c-store ships to the Federation, An escort carrier, a cruiser, and a raider type vessel. More on a fed raider to come don?t flame me yet.
4.Add 3 CAPT level c-store ships to the Federation of the same previous types.
5.Add a variant to the BG raptor and carrier. Add a Klingon Flight deck cruiser, a BOP, and another destroyer to the c-store. Add an escort carrier and raider for the feds to the c-store and add a frigate class vessel to the RA selection (more on that later).
6.Add 6 more LTG ships to the c-store for the KDF, 1 raider, 1 frigate class vessel, 2 escorts, 2 science vessel, and 1 flight deck cruiser.Then add a 3 ship variety pack similar to the vesta. Add a c-store frigate vessel for the Federation.

I see The federation getting Andorian raiders, Vulcan cruisers, and Caitian escort carriers.
More to follow later.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln

Last edited by disposeableh3r0; 11-28-2012 at 10:24 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 2
09-14-2012, 02:45 AM
Ok, it's time to expand on what i mean by a fed raider. Sorry it took so long but I mainly do this in my down time at work.

I imagined the "raider" to be where andorian ships come in, if I recall correctly they were refered to as corvetts which in classical terminology places the under frigates in size (but as we know startrek rarely fits in with calssical).
As such I did intend for them to be similar to the BOP but only on the surface (like the gorn science vessels are similar to the fed ones). I think it would get nearly the same basic stats as a bop with the typical FED differences. probably not a total universal set up but perhaps just a cmdr and ltc universal with the others spread across the other careers. There would be no battle cloak or even a regular cloak. Instead it could have an innate stealth ability similar to a modern stealth fighter. This could translate as an innate defence boost or perhaps a click ability that makes you harder to detect for a few seconds (perhaps like a battle cloak without the actual invisibility) probably without the damage bonus since it doesn't expire. But this is up for debate as it doesn't actualy have to fulfil the same role as a bop's ability.

While I'm at it, the vulcan cruiser. I saw this as kind of a poor mans oddy, they start at commander and end at ra so ther arent that many variations needed. it would come with a 1.1 ish shield mod but loose 10% hull versus similarly ranked cruisers, it would have sensors analysis and trade its second engineer bo with its highet sci bo. Perhaps a slight increase in turn rate as well. The special consoles would probably be defensive or sciencey in nature. An example, at commander level I see it looking like.....

Vulcan Cruiser
hull - 23400
shield mod 1.1
turn rate 9 degrees per sec
imp mod .16
600 crew
weapons 3/3
ltc eng
lt sci
lt tac
ens eng
ens sci
consoles 3/2/1
4 device slots
+5 power to shields and engines
+10 to aux
sensors analysis

and it goes on from there.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln

Last edited by disposeableh3r0; 11-28-2012 at 10:18 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 3
09-14-2012, 02:46 AM
Also saving this one just in case.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 462
# 4
09-14-2012, 03:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
Some basics before I begin. I will not be including fleet ships or lock box ships in any of my examples since they are not available to everyone all the time and are not account wide. I will be including all c-store ships and any ships that are defunct due to play levels being deleted. I will not be discussing the difference in their stats at equivalent levels since the inherent differences are what makes then unique. I will do my best to completely balance the two sides but I will also do my best to keep them unique. I will split this into multiple posts to make it easier to read.

First the KDF, some basic numbers. Currently there are 33 available Klingon ships including the now nonexistent levels of play and c-store options. These break down as:

1 starter ship ? no c-store options
3 LTC ships ? no c-store options
3 CMDR ships ? 6 c-store options with 1 weapon, 4 console abilities, and 1 unique hangar pet
3 CAPT ships ? 6 c-store options with 5 console abilities and 1 unique hangar pet
5 BG/MG ships ? 2 c-store ships with 1 console ability, 1 unique hangar pet, and 1 ship bound carrier pet.
0 LTG ships ? 4 c-store ships, all abilities at this level are ship bound but, 2 non console ship abilities 4 console abilities and 2 carrier specific pets.

It?s worth noting that at maximum level there are 6 ship classes available and if you include c-store ships there are 5 classes available at commander and captain. The classes are Raiders, Escorts, Cruisers, Science vessels, flight deck cruisers, and carrier vessels.
The KDF has no dedicated science ships in their basic ship lists but do gain access to science vessels through c-store purchases, but only from the Commander through Brigadier general/Major general levels. Almost all KDF ships have some kind of cloaking device installed and can equip cannons. The KDF has no variant of any existing ship available.




In comparison, the Federation has 40 available ships including c-store ships. These break down as:

1 starter ship -3 c-store options with 2 console powers and 1 weapon
3 LTC ships ? 3 c-store options with 3 console powers
3 CMDR ships ? 3 c-store options with 3 console abilities
3 CAPT ships ? 3 c-store options with 1 weapon and 2 console abilities
6 RA/RAUH ships ? 3 c-store options with 2 console abilities and one ship bound ability. Each of the original 3 ship classes has 1 variant, these variants have a different ensign only level slot and a single console variation.
0 VA ships ? 9 c-store options all abilities at this level are ship specific. 1 weapon, 1 unique carrier pet, and 9 console abilities.

It?s worth noting that until VA level there are only 3 ship classes to choose from, after VA level there are 5. There is no raider class vessel or flight deck cruiser available period and only one carrier. The federation does get the escort carrier class of vessel. The federation has only 2 vessels that cloak and only escorts, carriers and the dreadnaught cruiser can equip cannons. The federation does get greater variation at the admiral levels than the KDF with the available variants and the 2 c-store consoles than can be put into lower lever versions of the same ships.

So here is my assessment, there needs to be the same number of ships available to both factions at al levels. This includes the levels that don?t currently exist for klingons but they could be added anyway is only to sell the attached consoles. There needs to be the same numbers of classes available at all levels of play, personally, I feel that if there is a science vessel available for sale to the KDF there should be a raider for sale to the Federation, and that, the escort carrier needs to be retrograded back to the Commander level. The argument that raiders are unique to the KDF and that?s why the Fed shouldn?t get one falls on its face when you remember that the Science vessel is supposed to be unique to the Fed but the KDF can get one. Granted the Gorn ships are slightly different so a fed raider should be slightly different.



My recommendations are:

1.Add 3 c-store starter ships to the KDF. A starter escort, a starter cruiser, and a better starter BOP.
2.Add 3 LTC level c-store ships to the KDF.
3.Add 3 CMDR level c-store ships to the Federation, An escort carrier, a cruiser, and a raider type vessel. More on a fed raider to come don?t flame me yet.
4.Add 3 CAPT level c-store ships to the Federation of the same previous types.
5.Add a variant to the BG raptor and carrier. Add a Klingon Flight deck cruiser, a BOP, and another destroyer to the c-store. Add an escort carrier and raider for the feds to the c-store and add a frigate class vessel to the RA selection (more on that later).
6.Add 5 more LTG ships to the c-store for the KDF, 1 raider, 1 frigate class vessel, 2 escorts, 1 science vessel, and 1 flight deck cruiser. Add a c-store frigate vessel for the Federation.

I see The federation getting Andorian raiders, Vulcan cruisers, and Caitian escort carriers.
More to follow later.
Okay, first off my critique. I'm not sure how you can justify discounting fleet ships but counting Z-Store ships. Joining a fleet is not that hard dude!

33 to 40 is your final assessment and you think it should be 40 to 40. Okay, I understand and respect your opinion, lets even say that, in a perfect world, I agree. You think the various different classes of ships should be made available to both factions, okay I'm down with that too in a perfect world.

The question ends up being where do we, as a playerbase, prioritize the development of these ships in comparison to... new STF's, new featured episodes, new Klingon mission content, new factions, new shirts, new pvp maps, bug fixes, and anything else you can think of that needs to be added to the game.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 5
09-14-2012, 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jermbot View Post
Okay, first off my critique. I'm not sure how you can justify discounting fleet ships but counting Z-Store ships. Joining a fleet is not that hard dude!

33 to 40 is your final assessment and you think it should be 40 to 40. Okay, I understand and respect your opinion, lets even say that, in a perfect world, I agree. You think the various different classes of ships should be made available to both factions, okay I'm down with that too in a perfect world.

The question ends up being where do we, as a playerbase, prioritize the development of these ships in comparison to... new STF's, new featured episodes, new Klingon mission content, new factions, new shirts, new pvp maps, bug fixes, and anything else you can think of that needs to be added to the game.
I do not count fleet ships because ther are merely re-hashings of existing ships so if there were more ships to work with you would eventualy end up with more fleet ships any way. And I know joining a fleet isn't that hard the point is not only do you need to join a fleet that fleet also has to have the resources to build that ship and if you purchase it its only available to the character you purchased it with.

I am not saying that these should be done immediately in fact 6 of the ships are for levels that don't currently exist on the KDF side. It was merely a list of the differences and what could be done to even things out. The schedual should reflect where each faction is lacking, in the case of the Feds it should be more lower level ships and in the case of the KFD it should be more high level ships. So the next fed ship should be a commander or captain level and the next kdf ship should be a General level.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,642
# 6
09-14-2012, 07:16 AM
And the reason why the KDF will get almost no more ships is - wait for it - MONEY!

Ship development cost money - and PWE wants max profit for their investment FED at 80%+ of the player base = max profit = no KDF ships

It;s pretty simple.

Fairness does not or will not exist in the business decisions.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 151
# 7
09-14-2012, 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
My recommendations are:

1.Add 3 c-store starter ships to the KDF. A starter escort, a starter cruiser, and a better starter BOP.
2.Add 3 LTC level c-store ships to the KDF.
3.Add 3 CMDR level c-store ships to the Federation, An escort carrier, a cruiser, and a raider type vessel. More on a fed raider to come don?t flame me yet.
4.Add 3 CAPT level c-store ships to the Federation of the same previous types.
5.Add a variant to the BG raptor and carrier. Add a Klingon Flight deck cruiser, a BOP, and another destroyer to the c-store. Add an escort carrier and raider for the feds to the c-store and add a frigate class vessel to the RA selection (more on that later).
6.Add 5 more LTG ships to the c-store for the KDF, 1 raider, 1 frigate class vessel, 2 escorts, 1 science vessel, and 1 flight deck cruiser. Add a c-store frigate vessel for the Federation.

My recommendation... stop asking for new content to be placed in the C-Store...!!!!
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 8
09-14-2012, 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlineangel View Post
My recommendation... stop asking for new content to be placed in the C-Store...!!!!
They wont make it if it won't make them money. And not all of the ships are c store.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 9
09-14-2012, 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by levi3 View Post
And the reason why the KDF will get almost no more ships is - wait for it - MONEY!

Ship development cost money - and PWE wants max profit for their investment FED at 80%+ of the player base = max profit = no KDF ships

It;s pretty simple.

Fairness does not or will not exist in the business decisions.
Dstahl has said he plans on making more KDF content, including ships, now that season 6is out.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,184
# 10
09-14-2012, 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
Dstahl has said he plans on making more KDF content, including ships, now that season 6is out.
DStahl's been saying that for 2 years, but something of greater importance always comes up that gets in the way.
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