Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,542
# 221
09-25-2012, 01:57 AM
Allow me to repost this.

X Heavy Beam Array
(tier 5 cruiser only)

X array
Energy Damage

Firing arc: 235 Degrees (slight reduction due to higher energy levels being more difficult to be kept cohesive)
To Target: 250 X damage (250 dps)
To self: -10 energy when firing other weapons
To targets: X (proc based on energy type)

Passive Buffs (due to weapon type, like DHCs automatically get a +10% crit severity)
5% bonus accuracy
5% crit severity
1% crit chance

NO this idea is not for just the galaxy-R or galaxy-X. It's for ALL cruisers. And now to answer comments:

Why would anybody not want that weapon on his cruiser? what is it's downside, appart from the 15 degrees less?

Ok, this weapon actually has a reduction of 35 degrees, regular beam array is 270 I believe. Secondly, it's downside is that it is required that you have a tier 5 (vice admiral) cruiser. Those are not free. In fact the few in existence are actually moderately expensive. Lastly, I designed this weapon with the Odyssey class or Galaxy R in mind. You also threw in "simply because people seem to ignore the fact that cruisers are not intended as main damage dealers in this game.". A valid point. One I agree with. We may not be the primary damage dealers in this game, but at least give us a viable weapon that isn't the LOWEST POSSIBLE DPS WEAPON IN EXISTENCE. Beam Arrays have the lowest damage cap out of ANY weapon. Even turrets can go higher in DPS than beam arrays (CRFX + TTX makes a MEAN damage output on a turret). I say again, I am fine with not being the main damage dealer. I understand that escorts are supposed to do that. But don't leave cruisers behind with that mayhem.

All this weapon would do would be to make them not be JUST healers and JUST support. Giving them a weapon with a DPS that's higher that they can use effectively (since let's face it, their horrible turn rate makes them not able to really use much other than beam arrays, at least on the larger ones) would allow them to deal damage, without impugning on escorts. You will notice that my suggested weapon does not even come close to the DPS of a DHC (which I believe at mk XII is 280 or so), nor will it have the damage modifiers that DHCs have (which are the highest in the game, higher than DBBs and DCs which is why most escorts run at least 3 on their forward facing weapons), nor will it have the ability to be modified by something like CRF. If you say BFAW, look at how I had the damage equal it's dps. That means that it will fire ONE shot per salvo per array. And it will fire ONCE per second. So that's pew... pew... pew... Not pewpewpewpew... pewpewpewpew. So BFAW will have less of an effect on it. I took all of your arguments into mind when I designed it. It's basically designed to give cruisers back that constant pressure dps. Cuz getting hit once every second for a decent amount will force the target to actually take into account that extra damage, instead of ignoring it outright like they can now.

If I missed anything, please say so, and I shall answer it.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,555
# 222
09-25-2012, 02:40 AM
adding a universal boff to the galaxy r and even the galaxy x, seems a much more logical solution to the problem they have.
I would even say, give the glalaxy X a ltdcmdr tac, and the galaxy r a ltcmdr sci. Atleast to me that is a much, much better and easier solution to improve thoise 2 ships, and not as gamebreaking as a "superbeam".
Basically you have a tank/support ship, that has a beam weapon that deals dmg close to a DC, with perfect modifiers and an arc covering 63% of all directions. combine that with beam overload2 and you will have oneshot targets everywhere.

If you do not want to play a healer/supporter only, don't use a galaxy. I can understand you like the design and everything, but ship is filling this role exactly. As i said above, i'm very much pro galaxy buff, but only the BOFF layout...not adding a superbeam array, that seems far superior than an actual ltcmdr tac boff slot.

and i don't know why they made klingon cruiser so much superior to those fed cruisers. Maybe to draw some more people on the klingon side?
I'm also very much in favour of giving all federation cruisers +2 turnrate and +5 inertia (or is that -5? whatever makes them better).

the devs intended the galaxy r to be a support tank, with intentionally low dps. if you want a dps cruiser you must part from the galaxy r, plenty of ships to choose from. Thats how it is intended to work. Adding a super beam would make other cruisers jobless.

anyway since i stopped counting the galaxy r/x threads appearing over the last year, and the devs didn't even forward a comment about the state of the galaxy r/x, i'm pretty sure nothing will change (ever), so arguing about it is more than pointless. I respect your opinions and ideas on how to buff the galaxyr/x, but i surely don't share them, and i wanted to point out the obvious flawes of the idea. Atleast what i think are flawes.
Go pro or go home

Last edited by baudl; 09-25-2012 at 03:00 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,542
# 223
09-25-2012, 05:32 AM
I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you on many points. But I still don't really like how cruisers are kinda tossed aside in favor of escorts in this game, but I also know that there have been dozens if not hundreds of threads on exactly that, and exactly nothing has changed except that a few more escorts got added and everything got a little tankier removing some of the escorts dependency on support craft resulting in guess what... cruisers are even more useless now. And in all honesty I don't really expect ANYTHING I posted in this thread to appear in game, or even get looked at, and even if it's looked at and the reasoning behind it read, I doubt that anything would even be considered.

Look at it this way... these threads are our way of venting so that we don't take it out on other players in game. I know my heavy beam array is a little too powerful considering the role that cruisers play in game. I also know that a lot of ideas are a little too powerful again considering the role that they play in game. But since I am frustrated by being almost useless (and yes... in stfs most cruisers are useless unfortunately, esp ones that AREN'T tac captains, and even in a lot of pvp, or what passes for pvp in this game). So what can you do? Sit and seethe? Did plenty of that, ran out of patience and now I post here. Soooo yeah... HEAVY BEAM ARRAY AND BUFF AURA FTW!!! (reference buff aura to post something or the other I think two pages back).
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,447
# 224
09-25-2012, 05:43 AM
Well, I'd like to add that if it would be added in the game it would make sense that only the Galaxy R and Oddy could use the HBA (maybe Star Cruisers too, but I forget about those all the time because... well, they are stupid ). Because these vessels have the power to support such strong array weaponry. The Assault Cruisers for example are *not* "better" than the Exploration/Star Cruisers, they are different kinds of vessels, overall more nimble design. Those shouldn't have those heavy beams, as well as the excelsior refit and not even the Gal X. All of those ships have more emphasis on punctual damage, the the phaser lance, cannon loadouts or torp spcialis(z?)ation. The Exploration and Star Cruisers are in it to constantly uphold decent damage to keep the aggro and are more dangerous to shields than hull. One heavy beam wouldn't turn anything upside down, it'd maybe just bring back some ships in endgame content which frankly almost nobody uses anymore.

It's hard to describe Trek ships in three static classes but I think these changes wouldn't put any of them on par with escorts nor would it render the assault cruisers obsolete.
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-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-
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Last edited by angrytarg; 09-25-2012 at 06:10 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 225
09-25-2012, 07:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
i love how often that heavy beam array idea comes up, but never together with the reasons why it would be gamebreaking.

The idea behind it, is simply because people seem to ignore the fact that cruisers are not intended as main damage dealers in this game.
Unless of course your on the KDF side where a few of their Cruiser certainly are Escort like in dealing damage PLUS, they have the agility to stay behind a Galaxy class!!!....
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,555
# 226
09-25-2012, 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teleon22 View Post
Unless of course your on the KDF side where a few of their Cruiser certainly are Escort like in dealing damage PLUS, they have the agility to stay behind a Galaxy class!!!....
yeah, i never understood that...seems to be the bait for people to play KDF. "look, we have cruiser that actually are viable damage dealers! Join the KDF!"
But the only cruiser to actually makes good use of DHC or DC in PVP is the vorcha...idealy the fleet vorcha. For PVE it really doesn't matter, because i can bring my dual cannons on target even with 6 degree turnrate.

but as i said above, imho, all fed cruiser (and even sci ships) should get atleast +1 turnrate and better inertia.

PS: when i was looking through the new time ships i noticed, that the mirror universe ship was able to use cannons...and the wells had, as any other sci ship sensor analasys and subsystem targeting.
Now this got me thinking...why not instead of a superbeam, give all fed cruisers sub system targeting. Or give the galaxy R/X sensor analasys and subsystem targeting.
Go pro or go home

Last edited by baudl; 09-25-2012 at 04:21 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,331
# 227
09-25-2012, 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
No, i think a "Beam overload III" Console which is SOLEY for Galaxy Class ships would be much better IMHO.
It would reflect the huge Phaser Array of these ships.

We're talking about a console that comes with the "mirror Galaxy class", a ship that already has a Lt. Cmdr tactical BOFF station. (BOFF&Console Layout of the D'Kora)
And since this Mirror universe ship can't use Heavy cannons like the Ferengi D'Kora i think a "Beam Overload III" would be a sufficient tradeoff.

Or do you want to propose giving that ship TWO lt. Cmdr tactical BOFF slots?


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I was suggesting going for ONE Lt Cmdr Boff slot. That way a person can BO3, FAW3, HYT3 CRF2 or CSV 2 to thier hearts content.

As far as this "Beam Overload" console on the Mirror Galaxy Class, I have been searching for the stats of the ship and have yet to find them. A console for just that ability seems pretty silly, why would I waste a console slot to just get BO3 and nothing else?

Last edited by whamhammer1; 09-25-2012 at 04:46 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,331
# 228
09-25-2012, 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
The downside is that cruisers are too passive to start with. They have too little offensive power compared to Escorts and Science ships.

The downside of that weapon would be that you could only use it on a galaxy Class, which is the MOST teethless starfleet th the game.
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[/font]

Science ships have to do with less hull and only six weapons to use, any increase in damage comes from science abilities, just like several abilites engie boffs have to increase damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
Where is the downside of the Ferengi D'Kora able to use Dual heavy cannons?
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It has only a little bit more hull than the Armitage class, which is an escort

Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
Where is the big downside of the various Klingon Cruisers that are able to use Dual heavy Cannons?
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Most have only Lt. tactical boffs, pretty much limiting them to crf, csv1 (reducing the dhc/dc damage potential and spike damage time, unlike beam weapons who can cycle BO1 and BO2 around each other)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
Where is the downside of the Regent class having a Lt. Cmdr. Tactical?
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It's 40 inertia and lower turn rate (compared to the Excel) pretty much confines it to beam arrays for broadsiding, otherwise the Excel is the superior ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
Where is the downside of the Galaxy -X having a Spinal lance?
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A crappy firing arc, 3 minute cooldown, and the enemy has to have its shields down to do pretty much any damage

Last edited by whamhammer1; 09-25-2012 at 04:47 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,331
# 229
09-25-2012, 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
I like that idea!
It would be similar as the 180 degrees Quantum torpedo Launcher that came with the Regent Class. I also like its restriction so it's only useable for the Galaxy -R and Fleet -R (and the Mirror Galaxy, of course).


I think with the release of a 29th century timeship to STO (the wells Class), we can justifiably say that a Galaxy Class with more Firepower and versality wouldn't be a problem anymore.


Thank you for reading.
Why limit it to the Galaxy hulls? Why not the Odyssey and the Sovereigns and Starcruisers? Heck even the Nebula? They have pretty crappy turn rates and cant carry dhc/dc
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,542
# 230
09-25-2012, 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angrytarg View Post
Well, I'd like to add that if it would be added in the game it would make sense that only the Galaxy R and Oddy could use the HBA (maybe Star Cruisers too, but I forget about those all the time because... well, they are stupid ).
Hence why I added in only TIER 5 cruisers can use it. I believe I highlighted it in blue XD. But that was my intent. That's why it wouldn't make cruisers OP, because it was ONLY FOR TIER 5 SIHPS. Hence why it's not overpowered. I tried to think of everythign I could when I designed it.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
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