Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,051
# 311
09-30-2012, 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
You mean like the Excelsior... one of Starfleets most successful and iconic designs and in my personal opinion their prettiest.
To risk of being off topic, especially the Excelsior i hated that ship since i first saw it in ST III. It looks like a caricature of a starfleet ship. It's proportions are way to extreme (Nacelles are too long, Hull way too bulky and too big, Saucer way too tiny).

I was glad as they introduced the Galaxy and later the Ambassador which where much better looking ships. These ships do emanate a certain kind of elegance and grandness which ships like the Excelsior and Sovereign will never have.
The only reason this ship was so "successful" was because the producers where to lazy and to stingy to introduce another new and more advanced design.
I really hoped they left behind ship designs like that in the TNG era, but the sovereign was a huge disappointment. It was like two steps back in ship design, the designer should be shot even today for it, lol.
I'm happy for you that you like the Excelsior (which is a fine ship in STO), but i find it a shame this old bucket performs much better than the Galaxy to be honest.
I stopped to discuss about things like that for a long time, discussions about taste lead to nothing.

Sorry for being off topic.


Thank you for reading.

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Last edited by yreodred; 10-01-2012 at 01:42 AM.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,961
# 312
10-01-2012, 01:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
I'm, not here to bash anyone's ideas, just to point out the obvious, there are other choices out there, that and this notion based on the T.V. show and the movies, that the Galaxy is some sort of battleship, when it isn't. Its a "steady Eddie" exploration cruiser. It was built at a time of Federation peace and exploration was the order of the day. The Klinks' were our friends (heck , early episodes, Klingon ships flew the Federation flag in the background), only a minute "percentage of the Galaxy had been explored" and of the 1,000 crew compliment, much of them were family members to keep the crew members happy. Heck, enlisted personnel had their own rooms and not bunked atop of each other.

Since this thread went on full tilt, I have been using my Gal-X on my engineer to get some sort of take on what everyone is saying here (I have the Gal-R on my tactical as a freebie, but purchased the X through the C-Store). By taking away the consideration of the lance, the ensign tactical (in place of an ensign engie) and the third tac console (I dont use the cloak console), the hull is still a "steady Eddie" that lays out its damage over time, instead of spike damage, and can do things to reduce the opponents ability to fight, keep itself eternally alive (and others) and even increase the Galaxies dps.

Try using the 180 torp from the Regent you bought and a few other weapons combos and it will be a solid cruiser. It will never be a "spike damage" ship, nor is any other cruiser that the Feds have (save a well placed decloaking volley from a DBB/DHC Gal-X).

As far as the Sovy being ugly and looking like a stretched Constitution class, the Galaxy is a Connie that has been pulled width wise and flattened somewhat instead of stretched.
its a battleship in a strictly military sense. but when its not battling its the largest and most well equipped mobile laboratory in the federation.

there was a full blown cardasian war during most of the galaxy class's development, right after the cease fire cardasians were introduced in tng season 5 i think. soon after the DMZ was negotiated, DS9 started.

prior to sisco's position on the saratoga, he served under laton in what was refereed to as the latest tzenkethi war. that was in at least the late 2350s too. also, there was a conflict with the tholians that was so heated that an entire starbase was destroyed, riker's dad being the only survivor.


so..... the galaxy being designed in and for peace time is BULL****. once several galaxy class and many more nebula class were launched, notice how it didn't take long for that cardasian war to end...

in game, the galaxy's station setup is an extreme hindrance in its ability to deal damage, AND tank and heal. you could do SOOOOO much more with a sci ensign with ether ST, HE, or TSS vs another ET1 or EPtX1.

its made even worse now with doffs. the damage control doffs that can cut 4 EPtX abilities down to 2, and the technician doffs that lower all cooldowns removing the need for doubling up powers are all but unusable on the galaxy, you would have completely redundant and useless station powers in place of a hugely useful TT1, FAW1, HE1, TSS1, and all numerous other tac and sci abilities.

the galaxy class's disadvantages are so compounded and numerous that im convinced their metaphysical weight is why its turn rate and inertia are so bad. it fails in every way it is possible for a ship to fail.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,561
# 313
10-01-2012, 02:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
its a battleship in a strictly military sense. but when its not battling its the largest and most well equipped mobile laboratory in the federation.

there was a full blown cardasian war during most of the galaxy class's development, right after the cease fire cardasians were introduced in tng season 5 i think. soon after the DMZ was negotiated, DS9 started.

prior to sisco's position on the saratoga, he served under laton in what was refereed to as the latest tzenkethi war. that was in at least the late 2350s too. also, there was a conflict with the tholians that was so heated that an entire starbase was destroyed, riker's dad being the only survivor.


so..... the galaxy being designed in and for peace time is BULL****. once several galaxy class and many more nebula class were launched, notice how it didn't take long for that cardasian war to end...

in game, the galaxy's station setup is an extreme hindrance in its ability to deal damage, AND tank and heal. you could do SOOOOO much more with a sci ensign with ether ST, HE, or TSS vs another ET1 or EPtX1.

its made even worse now with doffs. the damage control doffs that can cut 4 EPtX abilities down to 2, and the technician doffs that lower all cooldowns removing the need for doubling up powers are all but unusable on the galaxy, you would have completely redundant and useless station powers in place of a hugely useful TT1, FAW1, HE1, TSS1, and all numerous other tac and sci abilities.

the galaxy class's disadvantages are so compounded and numerous that im convinced their metaphysical weight is why its turn rate and inertia are so bad. it fails in every way it is possible for a ship to fail.
yeah, totally agree. But some seem to confuse the problem this one ship has, that cruisers in general can't deal any dmg. And thats just not right.
Galaxy is crap for this game because of it's over specialization. to be an effective tank/support both PVE and PVP you need a max of 4 or 5 engi BOFF slots and 2-3 sci boff slots. leaving 4-6 for tac boffs. look at cruisers that actually have this layout and you realize they perform superb in this game.
myself i was allways pro universal ensign and or sci ltdcmdr for this ship. Even a sensor analasys wouldn't be off balance since it only has 2 tac console slots.
a galaxy sci cruiser if you want...not unlike the nebula, which is the smaller more sci vessel oriented version of basically the same design idea.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,332
# 314
10-01-2012, 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
its a battleship in a strictly military sense. but when its not battling its the largest and most well equipped mobile laboratory in the federation.

there was a full blown cardasian war during most of the galaxy class's development, right after the cease fire cardasians were introduced in tng season 5 i think. soon after the DMZ was negotiated, DS9 started.

prior to sisco's position on the saratoga, he served under laton in what was refereed to as the latest tzenkethi war. that was in at least the late 2350s too. also, there was a conflict with the tholians that was so heated that an entire starbase was destroyed, riker's dad being the only survivor.


so..... the galaxy being designed in and for peace time is BULL****. once several galaxy class and many more nebula class were launched, notice how it didn't take long for that cardasian war to end...

in game, the galaxy's station setup is an extreme hindrance in its ability to deal damage, AND tank and heal. you could do SOOOOO much more with a sci ensign with ether ST, HE, or TSS vs another ET1 or EPtX1.

its made even worse now with doffs. the damage control doffs that can cut 4 EPtX abilities down to 2, and the technician doffs that lower all cooldowns removing the need for doubling up powers are all but unusable on the galaxy, you would have completely redundant and useless station powers in place of a hugely useful TT1, FAW1, HE1, TSS1, and all numerous other tac and sci abilities.

the galaxy class's disadvantages are so compounded and numerous that im convinced their metaphysical weight is why its turn rate and inertia are so bad. it fails in every way it is possible for a ship to fail.
The Galaxy was always an exploration vessel, NOT a battleship. I know you (and others) in your mind and heart of hearts want it to be, but its not. If you want more of a battleship, get the Gal-X (which amazingly looks like a Galaxy class, go figure...) If you want a turning cruiser, get an Excel'.

Battleships have task forces attached to them in everyday operations, not out exploring on their own.

The Nebula didn't partake in the Cardassian war (unless some non-cannon book threw one out there) it was a post Wolf 359 ship and was originally designed in response to the Enterprises first encounter with the Borg.

The Galaxy class was new when the Enterprise was launched, it wasn't in the Cardi' war (unless some non cannon book threw one out there).

As far as engi abilities, there are plenty of engi boff skills that arent linked to ept*** or ET that can be used.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,694
# 315
10-01-2012, 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
The Nebula didn't partake in the Cardassian war (unless some non-cannon book threw one out there) it was a post Wolf 359 ship and was originally designed in response to the Enterprises first encounter with the Borg.
Actually the Nebular class was first designed to be produced alongside the Galaxy and the two ships were supposed to travel together in-case of saucer separation being required. the plan was that should the galaxy class separate its saucer from the stardrive then the Nebula would pick up the saucer and warp away, it was literally a warp engine without a ship.

They then decided due to the circumstances that was a waste of resources and therefore built the saucer into the drive and made them science ships
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,332
# 316
10-01-2012, 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
No (STO) Federation Cruiser is a spike damage ship, not even the Regent.
The point is that the Galaxy has the LOWEST damage potential of all Cruisers in the Game!
All it's surviability doesn't help making this ship even remotely fun to fly, it's just too passive.
I use the Galaxy -R with one of my Tac. Captains myself and i use the 180 degrees Torpedo launcher from the Regent, but it's not nearly like the Regent or any other ship when it comes to Firepower. Which is just embarassing.
Of course if you ignore other ships completely the Galaxy Class (in STO) could be a passable ship, but that counts for any other ship too. My point is the galaxy Class as it is in the game is just not nearly like the ship in the show and compared to other cruisers just a joke. (Not to mention escorts)

In PvE you NEVER need the huge amount of Engineering slots this ship has. In PvP there is no point in surviving if your enemy can survive YOUR attack just as well or even better.
All the Engineering BOFF stations don't help to make this ship having more punch. Making the newest incarnation (the Fleet Galaxy) even more passive doesn't help anyone. But i really don't care about the Fleet Galaxy, because my fleet will never get it and it is nothing i would regret not having.
When i bought the Galaxy -R this ship was the biggest dissappointment i had playing STO (and believe me there where a LOT of dissappointments).

If you had read the previous pages you would know by now that the Galaxy Class (or any other Starfleet cruiser) never where inteded to do "tickle" their enemies to death. Their weapons where made to release huge amounts of energy at once, not by doing some sort of constant fire. That's just cryptics idea of how Cruisers should work.
Especially the Galaxy Class never was a "Steady eddie", it was a ship that needed to be able to take care for itself, when operating far away from any other Starfleet ship. That is the big difference between the Galaxy Class and ANY other starfleet ship. It should be able to adopt to a board range of mission, even tactical ones in times of war.
To reflect the the Galaxy Class should have been a bit like a Federation counterpart to the Klingon B'rel Class. Highly universal BOFF stations, but much less maneuverability and speed. But as always people in charge of a Star Trek product rarely know what they are doing, lol.
Instead of misusing the Galaxy as a "total" tank the devs should have used one of their own designs for that role.

Now, there is not much anyone can (or is willing to) do something about it. The only hope i have is the release some special, more "realistic" version of the Galaxy class in the far future.
(Or wait for another game, made by people who care about star trek in the far future.)
What this ship needs is at least a universal Lt. in exchange of it's science Lt. Plus a universal console in exchange of one of its science consoles.

About the look of Sov. and Galaxy: Fo me, the Galaxy just looks better because it's lines are much more fluid and elegant, the Sovereign, Akira, norway and sabre look much too angular and especially the soverign looks too much like a skeleton of a ship, it's too much a contrast to other Starfleet ships prior ST:8. But there's no accounting for taste.


Thank you for reading.
There always is going to be a ship with the lowest damage potential, your beloved Galaxy is in that barrel. As far as taking care of itself, it wasn't supposed to be looking for other warships to fight. Also that Galaxy-R has the same amount of tactical boff slots as the Star Cruiser. Maybe what Cryptic should do is design a ship that has even less damage potential than the Galaxy. Would that make you happy? Heck, it'd be a great excuse to come out with the Ambassador class.

As far as neutering science boffs and consoles so you can get more Tactical spots, its an Exploration cruiser which uses science to do research, kinda negates the whole premise behin TNG. Plus it was dumb enough when they made the Regents science spot a universal, every ships should have at least an ensign of all three types of boffs. If you want an ensign science and an ensign universal, that's one thing, but missing a path completely is nonfunctional.

In regards to the looks, at least you get to look at your favorite ship at endplay, think of all the TOS and Movie Connie fans that wave good-bye to their "best looking" ships after Lt.

As far as PvE and engie boffs, I use them all of the time in STF's, if not for me than my teammates.

Maybe the tree you need to be barking is to have more relevant engineer boff skills when it comes to making extra damage (that don't augment existing damage).

When I am next on, I am going to switch my Tactical (the only toon I have that has a Gal-R) from his Armitage to his Gal-R to do stfs with. I bet you I will be just fine with it. Not a high dps ship, but just fine.

Last edited by whamhammer1; 10-01-2012 at 08:40 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,561
# 317
10-01-2012, 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
The Galaxy was always an exploration vessel, NOT a battleship. I know you (and others) in your mind and heart of hearts want it to be, but its not. If you want more of a battleship, get the Gal-X (which amazingly looks like a Galaxy class, go figure...) If you want a turning cruiser, get an Excel'.

Battleships have task forces attached to them in everyday operations, not out exploring on their own.

The Nebula didn't partake in the Cardassian war (unless some non-cannon book threw one out there) it was a post Wolf 359 ship and was originally designed in response to the Enterprises first encounter with the Borg.

The Galaxy class was new when the Enterprise was launched, it wasn't in the Cardi' war (unless some non cannon book threw one out there).

As far as engi abilities, there are plenty of engi boff skills that arent linked to ept*** or ET that can be used.
you should definately reread his post, since he only stated that the galaxy and nebula were designed during these wars...never mentioned any of those ships taking part in it.

and it is a fact that engi ensign can only use ET1 and EPtX 1...or pls name one other engi ensign ability.

and new is relative, since it had already 2 other sister ships prior to the enterprise D. Yamato and Galaxy. I also think, though not 100% sure, that the enterprise D had a 1 year shakedown cruise behind it when picard took command.

a little research will make clear that the federation cardassian war was from 2347 until 2360...and the active developement for the galaxy class ship started in 2350 (during a war). all according to memory alpha.
Go pro or go home
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,332
# 318
10-01-2012, 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
you should definately reread his post, since he only stated that the galaxy and nebula were designed during these wars...never mentioned any of those ships taking part in it.

and it is a fact that engi ensign can only use ET1 and EPtX 1...or pls name one other engi ensign ability.

and new is relative, since it had already 2 other sister ships prior to the enterprise D. Yamato and Galaxy. I also think, though not 100% sure, that the enterprise D had a 1 year shakedown cruise behind it when picard took command.

a little research will make clear that the federation cardassian war was from 2347 until 2360...and the active developement for the galaxy class ship started in 2350 (during a war). all according to memory alpha.
He actually said "once several galaxy class and many more nebula class were launched, notice how it didn't take long for that cardasian war to end". To me, that implies they were out there knee deep in Cardassian space hulks.

So what if the the "ensign skills" are those, it still frees up higher level engi boff skills for EWP, Aceton, DEM and countless other skills.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,332
# 319
10-01-2012, 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
Actually the Nebular class was first designed to be produced alongside the Galaxy and the two ships were supposed to travel together in-case of saucer separation being required. the plan was that should the galaxy class separate its saucer from the stardrive then the Nebula would pick up the saucer and warp away, it was literally a warp engine without a ship.

They then decided due to the circumstances that was a waste of resources and therefore built the saucer into the drive and made them science ships
That would have been a waste of resources. They should have just put some craptacularly low level warp core/reactor inside the primary hull and some retractable (dinky) nacelles when the saucer was separated. Sounds to me like some story line that Michael Stackpole would've come up with to get out of a writing contract.
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# 320
10-01-2012, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
The Galaxy was always an exploration vessel, NOT a battleship. I know you (and others) in your mind and heart of hearts want it to be, but its not. If you want more of a battleship, get the Gal-X (which amazingly looks like a Galaxy class, go figure...) If you want a turning cruiser, get an Excel'.

Battleships have task forces attached to them in everyday operations, not out exploring on their own.

The Nebula didn't partake in the Cardassian war (unless some non-cannon book threw one out there) it was a post Wolf 359 ship and was originally designed in response to the Enterprises first encounter with the Borg.

The Galaxy class was new when the Enterprise was launched, it wasn't in the Cardi' war (unless some non cannon book threw one out there).

As far as engi abilities, there are plenty of engi boff skills that arent linked to ept*** or ET that can be used.
sorry, you couldn't be more wrong about all that if you tried. contrary to popular belief, starfleet are not a bunch of hippies, and in the grim darkness of the 24th millennium, there is a fair amount of war.

the galaxy class is a battle ship because thats is a size based designation for the largest type of ship in a military. star fleet likes to think its not a military, its certainty different from a modern one, but the basics between the 2 are the same. they also don't like using military designations like that, but i don't no how anyone can keep track of what they are saying to each other if they refer to everything as 'explorer' or 'cruiser'.

its also as heavily armed as a ship designated a battleship should be. it has the largest phaser arrays of any ship in the entire starfleet, and that maters because all emitter segments in the array store power, and con contribute all that power into a single shot, about every second and a half. in 3 shots it was able to disintegrate approximately the same volume of itself in the hull of a borg cube. its 2 torpedo bays are unparalleled in rapid fire operations, capable of spiting out between 5-10 at a time, or sequentially fireing off 10 in a single second. given another second, i wouldn't be surprised if it could fire 10 more.

if starfleet was just building a flying cruise ship and laboratory with little or no military application, it would have shrimpy phaser arrays, wimpy torpedo launchers, and be no larger then 1/10 its current size. it would be insane to build something like that and not give it armaments that are appropriate for a ship that large, especially during multiple wars. apparently they forgot to tell the writers that they did in fact make it this powerful, because they kept writing situations were it would loss to vastly inferior ships, and only let it show off its true firepower against imaginary/invincible targets or a borg cube, situations were it couldn't win no mater what.

"The Nebula didn't partake in the Cardassian war" OK BOY. go watch the episode the wounded that introduced the nebula class and the cardasian, and get back to me on that.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_..._%28episode%29

Captain Benjamin Maxwell of the nebula class uss phoenix is a cardasian war veteran, and when he detected what he thought was more military build up and smuggling, he decided to take decisive action against it, blowing away swaths of cardasina ships in the process. even with prefix codes lowering it's shields, and several direct hits after, its was vaporizing galor class. and any thing the nebula can do tactically, the galaxy can do better, at the very least it lacks the torpedo launchers the galaxy has.


the nebula is a post 359 design? in the flashback sequence in the emissary, the ds9 pilot episode, a nebula and ambassador are seen flying toward the cube. there could have actually been nebula class in service as early as 2357 from some tech manual soft canon i have read, launched with not quite the cutting edge tech that delayed the galaxy class's official commissioning in around 2363.

and at ensign engineering level, there is only version 1 of the EPtX skills and ET. ET sharing cooldown with the team skills of tac and sci, and the 4 EPtX skills all sharing a cooldown with each other. at least tac has team, 2 beam, and 2 torpedo skills at that level, and sci has even more numerous skills. 3 different heals, tractor beam, jam sensors, tach beam. tones of skills, never tripping over each other with shared cooldowns. having 3 engineering ensigns is the WORST thing a ship can be saddled with.
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Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
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