Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,051
# 351
10-03-2012, 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
You do realize that they have a combat version of the Galaxy, the Galaxy X. With the exception of the lance and a different turn rate (and inertia) its as good as the Sovereign for dps. Add the lance in, it's better.
If i wanted to fly a ugly ship i would fly the Regent or Sovereign. Compared to the Galaxy -X, the Regent has at least much more Tac BOFF stations. For me, the -X is just as exaggerated and un-proportioned as the Excelsior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
As far as the R version goes. I am using my Tac in it and it has been doing fine in STF and Fleet Mark events.
Front
1xDBB
2xBA
1x 180' Quantum Torp

Rear
3xBA
1x Q torp

If I need to turn, I ditch the saucer, otherwise I HYT1 and FAW2 to get the job done.
One of my Characters (tactical) uses the Galaxy -R with the following configuration:
Weapons
Front:
3x Disruptor Hybrid Beam array MK XI
180 degrees Quantum torpedo Launcher

Aft:
3x Disruptor Hybrid Beam array MK XI
Quantum torpedo LauncherMK XII

That way i get decent (for a galaxy Class) boardside firepower. Combined with 2x EptW1 and 2x EptS2, FAW1 and Torp. Spread II, it gets the best out of that ship (for my expectations).
You can also use Eject Warp plasma (or a comoparable console) to nail the enemy and to debuff it's resistances. I even use Directed energy modulation to tease out the last bit of offensive this ship can get.


But that's not the Point. ANY other ship in the game has better possibilities to be active in combat! Even the tiny Fleet Nova Class or the Galor Class has more firepower (thats just Intolerable, imo)!
That is what bothers me, the Galaxy is the cruiser with the LEAST offensive capabilities of all ships in the game! It would be better if it had a Lt. Cmdr science availlable, but its BOFF layout consists mostly of Engineering Slots. That's just stupid. (sorry for being blunt)

Every other ship has better possibilities to be active in combat if it is more tactical or science abilities. That's what bothers me most about the BO layout of that ship, it is just too frel***g passive.

For a ship that is iconic and popular as the Galaxy Class, the devs have made a awful job to make it a fun to fly ship!
(or to affirm my personal theory, the devs just hate TNG)




Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
Also the Galaxy does have at least 50 years worth more time in its design, but why risk a ship that requires so much materials to build to have the capacity for long range missions when you can build a more compat/patrol orientated design instead (Sovy').
That's no reason to picture the big, expensive ship, as inferior or just toothless. Especially since the Regent came out, all other federation cruisers are just a laugh, especially the Galaxya class, because (as i already said) has the least offensive powers of all ships in the game.
Both ships should be at least equal, they could even make the Galaxy the science counterpart to the tactical heavy regent class. Personally i wouldn't care if the galaxy class wouldn't be that passive anymore.


Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
And you are also aware that if you turn the Galaxy's sauver section 90', it looks amazingly like the Sovy's Saucer section?
... this doesn't make the sovereign look better, sorry. Quite the contrary, now that i have that picture in mind i find it even more ugly.

It's wideness is what makes the Galaxy look unique, majestic and refreshigly different to other ships. The Galaxy Class doesn't need to look fast, it looks powerful and majestic.
A long saucer, looks just cheap in my opinion, like it wanted to say "hey look at me, i look fast", you know what i mean. I'm going to stop here to grumble about that ship design, it won't help anyway.


Thank you for reading.

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-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,332
# 352
10-03-2012, 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
the premise that the sovereign can do 95% if what a galaxy can do is laughably false. the galaxy is 2.4 times larger then a sovereign, its main phaser array is almost 3 times longer, and its 2 torpedo launchers can fire 10 torpedoes in 1 second with no indication that they cant fire that many again in another second. from the tng movies, all the sovereigns torp launchers are ether single shot or burst 3. though they can be reloaded and fire again in a second or 2.
Please read my response to roboydo


Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
all that extra space is going to count for a lot more then 5% in terms of exploration and scientific capability, and its armaments are also of a higher caliber. when a galaxy isn't serving as a battleship during a war, its likely intended to spend a decade at a time away from federation space all by itself, and it has room for all the equipment and supplies it needs to do it. during tng, you didn't see any galaxys doing that, but the class was still less then a decade old then and still likely proving itself before they were sent that far out. just in case there was any flaw in it that would result in a loss like the Yamato, in that case it was an Iconian virus. they were thinking in terms of a 100 year period, they proboly wouldn't even consider the class properly vetted and broken in for at least 10 years. its the smaller ships that stay closer to home and do more limited exploring, filling in the gaps in a galaxy's exploration pattern for example.
Just to make sure that we are on the same page, when you say "battleship" are you referring to warship?

And as far as needing an "at-least 10 year shakedown" of a ships primary role capability once active. That would be a production nightmare for such an effort. Do you understand the downtime needed for any real intent of exploration if that was the case? You'd be more than a quarter into its product-life-cycle before anything the does exploration wise would be realized. Project-wise, that would be a real feasibility issue for Starfleet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
for a ship its size, 1000 crew is extreamly sparse really. it can support 5000 more then that if it needs too. connies that were a almost 28 times smaller had over 400 crew. and for a fleet of tens of thousands of ships, the resources to make a galaxy over any other class is a drop in the bucket, in yearly ship building the difference would be lost if there was any rounding on the cost sheets.
Not really, to make a ship that is 28 times larger would require SIGNIFICANTLY more resources and labor per unit to construct. Labor, per unit was also be much higher, lets say for giggles (and easier math)both materials and labor require 10 times more per unit to produce a Galaxy than a Constitution class ship, you can produce 10 of the smaller ships per Galaxy and those 10 ships will have far more total capability ("utils" in economic terms) than that one Galaxy will.

In the end you will only produce a few Galaxy class ships, mostly as replacements for other exploration ships as they end their service life cycle and the few that are beyond recoup quantity for new exploration missions. You will find a smaller than Galaxy design than the Galaxy to be a "battle leader" to keep cost down and maximize utility, while not loosing combat capability. Thus the Sovereign.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
the galaxy X is the ugliest pos in the game, its just a terrible ship in every way and promotes a playstyle that is unworkable. any other dpsing cruiser will do a hilariously better job, this even in pve. oh and any conclusion you draw in pve is worthless, you can role your face across the key board and beat elite stfs. you are never asked to even use 50% of your ships potential in pve, but in pvp the closer to 100% you are, the more likely you will do well. its pvp that you will see exactly how terrabad both galaxy's are.

Being that yreodred said he doesn't do PvP, I was responding to his desire to be more effective in PvE. As far as them being bad in PvP, if Fed' players would do teamwork HALF as well as the Klingon players do in PvP I would argue against that. Many f the ships in PvP never have thier potential understood on the Fed side because everyone seems to want to go "solo-Kirking" and taking on the whole KDF by themselves (getting squished in the process) I don't even bring my Nebula anymore because most players won't make use of its abilities in a team environment.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,697
# 353
10-03-2012, 03:41 PM
If you want to be a little less Passive try this or this skill setup with the following equipment

Weapons
Fore: 1DBB, 1 Torp and 2 BAs
Aft: 2BAs and 2 Torps

This maximises the damage potential of your Beam arrays while giving things in front of you a nasty dose of spike damage from the DBB and behind a nasty torp surprise (using The appropriate doffs) this combined with the cycling EPtWs and and AP:B should give you a good 700+ damage per hit, if you use the BO build then you can use a weapon battery, add that to your EPtW3 and your engi power boost skills for a nasty BO from the DBB.

Use whatever equipment you want although I find the full MACO Mk XII will add an extra 2k or so to that forward firing arc.

The following console layout would also help

Eng: Borg, RCS/Neutronium (depending upon RCS effectiveness), 2x Neutronium
Sci: Saucer sep, 2x Field gen
Tac: 2x Energy

This will maximise your resistances while (hopefully) giving you a slight turn boost to keep that DBB on target, I have focused the build for defence/team support but that is what the ship is good at and true to TNG I have put most of it's firepower forward facing although the rear still has a good kick to it while keeping some decent DPS in it's broadside, trading beam numbers for damage on each. of course if you can't keep the forward DBB on target moving forwards there is always reverse.

Alternatively you could do what others have already suggested you do i.e. get a different ship
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,332
# 354
10-03-2012, 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
If i wanted to fly a ugly ship i would fly the Regent or Sovereign. Compared to the Galaxy -X, the Regent has at least much more Tac BOFF stations. For me, the -X is just as exaggerated and un-proportioned as the Excelsior.
But isn't the "X" just as "wide" as the Galaxy? I thought that's what made it elegant?

I have for the longest time argued to have them allow the Gal-X to have the original saucer to take some of the 'bling" off of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
One of my Characters (tactical) uses the Galaxy -R with the following configuration:
Weapons
Front:
3x Disruptor Hybrid Beam array MK XI
180 degrees Quantum torpedo Launcher

Aft:
3x Disruptor Hybrid Beam array MK XI
Quantum torpedo LauncherMK XII

That way i get decent (for a galaxy Class) boardside firepower. Combined with 2x EptW1 and 2x EptS2, FAW1 and Torp. Spread II, it gets the best out of that ship (for my expectations).
You can also use Eject Warp plasma (or a comoparable console) to nail the enemy and to debuff it's resistances. I even use Directed energy modulation to tease out the last bit of offensive this ship can get.

If you put on MK XII Very Rare weapons in place of those MK XI's, you will notice a decidedly greater difference. I throw on a DBB to make better use of the front on firepower, especially when the saucer is separated. I know that when I have fought against most Galaxy's I tended to go nose on becuase most are BA happy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
But that's not the Point. ANY other ship in the game has better possibilities to be active in combat! Even the tiny Fleet Nova Class or the Galor Class has more firepower (thats just Intolerable, imo)!
That is what bothers me, the Galaxy is the cruiser with the LEAST offensive capabilities of all ships in the game! It would be better if it had a Lt. Cmdr science availlable, but its BOFF layout consists mostly of Engineering Slots. That's just stupid. (sorry for being blunt)

Every other ship has better possibilities to be active in combat if it is more tactical or science abilities. That's what bothers me most about the BO layout of that ship, it is just too frel***g passive.

For a ship that is iconic and popular as the Galaxy Class, the devs have made a awful job to make it a fun to fly ship!
(or to affirm my personal theory, the devs just hate TNG)[/color][/font]



Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
That's no reason to picture the big, expensive ship, as inferior or just toothless. Especially since the Regent came out, all other federation cruisers are just a laugh, especially the Galaxya class, because (as i already said) has the least offensive powers of all ships in the game.
Both ships should be at least equal, they could even make the Galaxy the science counterpart to the tactical heavy regent class. Personally i wouldn't care if the galaxy class wouldn't be that passive anymore.
I never said it was inferior or toothless, just different. As far as a Lt. Cmdr Sci, that wouldn't be so bad, but then you'd still be limited to a maximum Lt. Tac boff. Would that really be what you want (although two lt. tacs would be interesting). You'd be giving up an awfull lot on the Engi Boff side.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
... this doesn't make the sovereign look better, sorry. Quite the contrary, now that i have that picture in mind i find it even more ugly.

It's wideness is what makes the Galaxy look unique, majestic and refreshigly different to other ships. The Galaxy Class doesn't need to look fast, it looks powerful and majestic.
A long saucer, looks just cheap in my opinion, like it wanted to say "hey look at me, i look fast", you know what i mean. I'm going to stop here to grumble about that ship design, it won't help anyway.


Thank you for reading.

I think the whole design difference is in the profiles. The Sovy' seems to designed with a minimal frontal (and rear) area in mind. To me, that means it is designed to be much more aggressive than the Galaxy is, charging in nose first with a fair amount of speed. I likeit , you don't. There are people to this day that get in heated arguments over which Camaro is the better looking: first generation or second generation and the main difference is in one is much sleeker than the other.

Man, is your color/font scheme a killer, it probably took more time pasting the font/color instructrions than the actual content of my post

Last edited by whamhammer1; 10-03-2012 at 03:56 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 177
# 355
10-03-2012, 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roboydo View Post
The Sovereign is not a replacement for the Galaxy class but for the aging Excelsior class. Sternbach stated this in a discussion thread on the TrekBBS years ago.
Except ofcourse that in the end, Cannon wise, the Excelsior class is shown to be still flying in the 31st century. Mainly because smaller versatile ships are more handy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roboydo View Post
Exploration is the charter of Star Fleet.
Not really, the "United Space Probe Agency" was about exploration, of which Kirk did work for them, it was not until TNG when they merged the two agencies under the umbrella of "Starfleet" that it became one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
the premise that the sovereign can do 95% if what a galaxy can do is laughably false.
Not really, WATCH First Contact, its made clear that the new Enterprise E is better at war and other tasks then the old Enterprise D. Its weapons, engines and computer processing power were all vastly improved compared to what was on the Enterprise D. It is made clear as day if you WATCH the movie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
the galaxy is 2.4 times larger then a sovereign, its main phaser array is almost 3 times longer, and its 2 torpedo launchers can fire 10 torpedoes in 1 second with no indication that they cant fire that many again in another second. from the tng movies, all the sovereigns torp launchers are ether single shot or burst 3. though they can be reloaded and fire again in a second or 2.
Irrelevant, the Enterprise D also had a HUGE tank area for intelligent ocean living mammals to work in to "support" the crew.

It also had schools, nurseries, and the staff to maintain them so the crew can have their families on board. Plus a HUGE shuttle bay that was not ONCE used in the show or movies, instead the two smaller shuttle bays were the only ones shown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
all that extra space is going to count for a lot more then 5% in terms of exploration and scientific capability, and its armaments are also of a higher caliber.
Nope Gordi makes it clear that the weapon systems and engines on the new Enterprise E are better then what they had available in the Enterprise D in First Contact.

In addition to that, when the Enterprise D took on a Borg cube, it only managed to win because they used Picard who at the time was assimilated to cause havoc on their systems, but when the Enterprise E fought the cube in First Contact, it didn't need anything but its weapons to win that battle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
for a ship its size, 1000 crew is extreamly sparse really.
Actually, not really, lots of stuff was never shown that was supposed to be in the ship. Plus, there is the simple fact that its not 1,000 as a "crew" compliment, per say, that crew compliment includes the ~300 family members on board according to cannon sources.

At which point, the Sovereign class has nearly the same amount of working crew members as the Galaxy, and there is no need for teachers, or other support staff for the family members.

In addition to that, for family members who are not part of Star Fleet but are doing work in other fields, the Galaxy class has room available for them to work on their own occupations instead of just being stuck in their quarters. The Galaxy needs to be big just to be a "town" in space, let alone actually do anything with it.

Jim
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,965
# 356
10-03-2012, 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
The introduction of the Sovereign has allowed to replace destroyed Galaxies AND Excelsior's on the front and second lines. Surviving Galaxy's were allowed to go about its primary role again, exploration. To an extent, Sovereigns did replace Galaxy's.
the sovereign is starfleet's vorcha class, a large heavy cruiser second only to the galaxy and nebula. i don't think anyone thinks the introduction of the negvar was to replace the vorcha. the negvar is an order of magnitude larger and stronger, a true battleship that could go toe to toe with a galaxy or warbird and win. the sovereign replaces the galaxy in no way. the galaxy can do the job of any other ship, no smaller ship can do any job a galaxy can do. not 95% of the jobs, not 90%, maybe not even 80%. tactically i'd guess around 65%


Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
You have miunderstood what I have said. 95% of the capabilities of the Galaxy are to be able to conduct typical cruiser roles, the role that the Sovereign isn't capable of doing is long range exploration, which requires that bulk, space and crew of the Galaxy to do. That 5% difference in the capabilities of Sovereigns design allows it to conduct combat operations with greater proficiency than the Galaxy has.

I wasn't suggesting what it does as a percentage of mission hours/days/years, but as a percentage of what the ships CAN do between each other.

The shots on the Galaxy were mostly Beam Overload style volleys probably combined multiple arrays together (just by watching what it did) that doesn't make it "bigger", just makes it different approaches. And quantum torps are more powerfull than photons, so the SOvy doesn't need to fire 5-9 torps a volley.
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8...izecompare.jpg as you can see the dorsal main phaser array is approximately the same size and shape of a sov's entire saucer. according to the tech manual, that array has 200 emitters in it. each group of emitters, maybe 10 or 20, is fed by a main eps trunk and every emitter holds its own individual charge. on screen there is that moving glow effect leading to the point on the array that fires, the more of the array that takes part of that effect, the more powerful the shot will be. and it can be fired at anything any point of the array has line of sight with. in the surface of a borg cube, that array was capable of disintegrating more volume of the cube then there was volume of the ship that fired. and then the writers and producers never let it do anything like that again.

because of this, the sov doesn't even have half the phaser firepower, though its combined torpedo launching capacity technically exceeded what the galaxy has been observed firing. and thats if we compare an at launch 2363 galaxy with an at launch 2372 sovereign. with quantums, type 12 emitters, and other tech it gets even worse for the sov. quantum torpedoes are just ammo, the sovereign having a launcher devoted to them is likely due to ease of munition storage. if quantums end up replacing photons nearly entirely, the concept of that specialized launcher will start looking very retro.


Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
No, I am implying that the Galaxy is an expensive ship to operate (in both materials and crew) and that it should be doing exploration instead of wasting its capabilities in a front line combat or patrol roles that other ships (that aren't built for long range exploration) can do.
a galaxy class acting as flagship of a battle group isn't going to have families, state of the art research labs, a full compliment of shuttle craft, 10 years worth of energy and food stuffs, a symphony orchestra or whatever else it might take with it when it head out to parts unknown, no ships would. it would still have its unmatched weapons systems, high capacity shields and huge damage soaking potential just from how large it is. in battle, the sovereign does not have 95% of that. saying it had 75% of that would be extreamly generous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim940 View Post
Not really, WATCH First Contact, its made clear that the new Enterprise E is better at war and other tasks then the old Enterprise D. Its weapons, engines and computer processing power were all vastly improved compared to what was on the Enterprise D. It is made clear as day if you WATCH the movie.
there is 0 frame of reference to judge any of that on. it and every other ship shot a gaping hole to the same effect. there is no vast difference between the sov and any other ship tech wise, every single system is mature technology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim940 View Post
Irrelevant, the Enterprise D also had a HUGE tank area for intelligent ocean living mammals to work in to "support" the crew.

It also had schools, nurseries, and the staff to maintain them so the crew can have their families on board. Plus a HUGE shuttle bay that was not ONCE used in the show or movies, instead the two smaller shuttle bays were the only ones shown.
i really don't understand why everyone thinks that this in some way takes away from the power of its weapons. its not like a school has a -10 to weapons modifier or something. all of those things could just as easily be removed as they were installed in the first place, the majority of the interior was designed to be modular.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim940 View Post
Nope Gordi makes it clear that the weapon systems and engines on the new Enterprise E are better then what they had available in the Enterprise D in First Contact.
saying its the most advanced =/= most powerful. a 5.7mm round is more advanced then a .03.06, whats gonna leave a bigger hole though

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim940 View Post
In addition to that, when the Enterprise D took on a Borg cube, it only managed to win because they used Picard who at the time was assimilated to cause havoc on their systems, but when the Enterprise E fought the cube in First Contact, it didn't need anything but its weapons to win that battle.
there was next to no borg countermeasures ready the last time a galaxy class was shown fighting the borg. every advancement and tactic developed for that is something any ship can be upgraded to have. also, WATCH the movie. thanks again to picard they knew exactly were to shoot it. and it took the whole fleet to do it, the E's firepower was inconsequential at that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim940 View Post
Actually, not really, lots of stuff was never shown that was supposed to be in the ship. Plus, there is the simple fact that its not 1,000 as a "crew" compliment, per say, that crew compliment includes the ~300 family members on board according to cannon sources.

At which point, the Sovereign class has nearly the same amount of working crew members as the Galaxy, and there is no need for teachers, or other support staff for the family members.

In addition to that, for family members who are not part of Star Fleet but are doing work in other fields, the Galaxy class has room available for them to work on their own occupations instead of just being stuck in their quarters. The Galaxy needs to be big just to be a "town" in space, let alone actually do anything with it.

Jim
i recall a quote from riker stating the exact complement of the enterprise in an episode, as in every person on board, it was something like 1014. how many were officers? how many were enlisted? how many were civilians? regardless, thats only twice the people a ship 28 times smaller had 100 years prior
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 10-03-2012 at 04:47 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 177
# 357
10-03-2012, 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
there is 0 frame of reference to judge any of that on. it and every other ship shot a gaping hole to the same effect. there is no vast difference between the sov and any other ship tech wise, every single system is mature technology.
Sure there is, the Enterprise E is one of the first ships armed solely with Quantum Torpedoes, the Galaxy class was always shown firing only Photon torpedoes in both TNG and DS9.

To Quote Admiral Hayes from ST:FC's original script,

Quote:
The new quantum torpedoes are doing the trick, Jean-Luc. We've destroyed forty-seven Borg ships so far... and only lost fifteen of our own.
Because the new quantum torpedoes were supposed to be the end all and be all of the fighting. You didn't need the massive amounts of photon torpedoes to cause the same damage as the Enterprise D needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
i really don't understand why everyone thinks that this in some way takes away from the power of its weapons. its not like a school has a -10 to weapons modifier or something. all of those things could just as easily be removed as they were installed in the first place, the majority of the interior was designed to be modular.
There is no cannon evidiance that it was designed to be modular. Instead the only Cannon we have is instead of using the Galaxy class for patrolling the neutral zone, where a warship is needed not a exploration cruiser we find ourselves with the Sovereign class.

We also cannonly have evidence that the Excelsior Class is used in relatively larger numbers then the Galaxy till the end of DS9 for combat roles, and that the Excelsior is used up to at least the 31st Century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
saying its the most advanced =/= most powerful. a 5.7mm round is more advanced then a .03.06, whats gonna leave a bigger hole though
No, Geordi is referring to the most advance ship in the fleet in relation to combat. Of which,

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
i recall a quote from riker stating the exact complement of the enterprise in an episode, as in every person on board, it was something like 1014. how many were officers? how many were enlisted? how many were civilians? regardless, thats only twice the people a ship 28 times smaller had 100 years prior
And its also 14 times bigger then it needs to be. Sure the Defiant for example is very spartan, but the Ent was not that spartan in design. No instead you have a GIANT shuttle bay that was never used, several different medical bays available, a host of research offices, quarters for Admirals when they visit, and schools, nurseries, and a huge ten forward compared to what was on the ENT for their cafeteria, or any other ship for that matter.

It was a massive waste of time and resources to build the Galaxy class, Star Fleet learned from their (err Gene's) stupidity.

Jim
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 216
# 358
10-03-2012, 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim940 View Post
Sure there is, the Enterprise E is one of the first ships armed solely with Quantum Torpedoes, the Galaxy class was always shown firing only Photon torpedoes in both TNG and DS9.

To Quote Admiral Hayes from ST:FC's original script,
If you get to use script, which isn't hard canon. We can use Tech Manuals.
Galaxy wins.

Quote:
Because the new quantum torpedoes were supposed to be the end all and be all of the fighting. You didn't need the massive amounts of photon torpedoes to cause the same damage as the Enterprise D needed.
There is no canon, soft, hard or scripted by never voiced that backs that opinion.

Quote:
There is no cannon evidiance that it was designed to be modular. Instead the only Cannon we have is instead of using the Galaxy class for patrolling the neutral zone, where a warship is needed not a exploration cruiser we find ourselves with the Sovereign class.
If you get to use script, which isn't canon. We get to use Tech Manuals.
Galaxy wins.

Using Canon, the Ent D was seen more than just a few times patrolling several different and potentially hostile borders. Klingons, Romulans, Cardassian and several more.
Was even somewhat hinted at that it was the launch of the Galaxy class that helped end the war with the Tzenkethi.(I can speculate too)

Quote:
We also cannonly have evidence that the Excelsior Class is used in relatively larger numbers then the Galaxy till the end of DS9 for combat roles, and that the Excelsior is used up to at least the 31st Century.
The USS Missouri was used far after she was considered obsolete.
The F-15 and the F-16 can't hold a candle to the F-22. But that doesn't mean that they will suddenly up and lose all functions.
Additionally, you don't deploy the Missouri when the coast guard is more than enough.

Quote:
No, Geordi is referring to the most advance ship in the fleet in relation to combat
Nothing said on screen mentions the Ent E being the most destructive ship in the fleet.
Only that it is the most advanced and should be there. Even moreso because its commander is Captain Picard.

Quote:
And its also 14 times bigger then it needs to be. Sure the Defiant for example is very spartan, but the Ent was not that spartan in design. No instead you have a GIANT shuttle bay that was never used, several different medical bays available, a host of research offices, quarters for Admirals when they visit, and schools, nurseries, and a huge ten forward compared to what was on the ENT for their cafeteria, or any other ship for that matter.

It was a massive waste of time and resources to build the Galaxy class, Star Fleet learned from their (err Gene's) stupidity.

Jim
Form vs Function.
This argument only exists when one has to be sacrificed for the other.
In Star Trek they didn't have to build a gun, then a ship. They could do both without compromising either the gun or the ship.

Starfleet can build a luxury liner with as much firepower as the Defiant/Sovereign/Galaxy class vessels. Just because its posh doesn't mean it can't kick your butt.

Anyone recall the Sona ship interiors?

And err, who would have won in a straight up fight between any of those ships and the Ent E? (Hint: It wouldn't be the Ent E)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 177
# 359
10-03-2012, 08:30 PM
Quantum Torpedoes, unlike Photon Torpedoes were shown to be effective against solid neutronium. Photons have a maximum theoretical explosive yield of 25 isotons (rated to 18.5 isotons), quantum's are rated at 52.3 isotons.

As of the end of Star Trek, only a handful of ships used them, none of them being the Galaxy class ships.

Each Quantum fired is therefore equal to a little over 2 photons to cause the same damage.

As for the F-15 and F-16, let us remember that German pilots dog fighting against F-22's manage to beat them in the Alaska war games that were recently held.

Jim
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,965
# 360
10-03-2012, 08:38 PM
thank you

with out all that 'useless heft', the ship wouldn't be large enough to have the array that it has. star ships arent as singularly purposed like the sea going navy ships we have now. they serve as towns, universities in terms of research, warships, embassies, and outposts that can move thousands of times faster then the speed of light. the galaxy being all those things does not take away from the few times it got to show its true power, nether do alll the other times it fell on its face and was completely infective so the plot could be advanced. stupid, stupid, stupid writers.

in reference to tech manuals

Quote:
"The tech manuals are written by ST production staff, same as the Encyclopedia (Mike Okuda). Since their contents report on what is canon, they are technically canon." - Harry Lang, Senior Director of Viacom Consumer Products Interactive division, posts on StarTrek.com forum, January 2005.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim940 View Post
Quantum Torpedoes, unlike Photon Torpedoes were shown to be effective against solid neutronium. Photons have a maximum theoretical explosive yield of 25 isotons (rated to 18.5 isotons), quantum's are rated at 52.3 isotons.

As of the end of Star Trek, only a handful of ships used them, none of them being the Galaxy class ships.

Each Quantum fired is therefore equal to a little over 2 photons to cause the same damage.

As for the F-15 and F-16, let us remember that German pilots dog fighting against F-22's manage to beat them in the Alaska war games that were recently held.

Jim
TORPEDOES ARE AMMO. even an excelsior could be supplied with them, thats canon
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 10-03-2012 at 08:40 PM.
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