Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 41
09-16-2012, 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angrytarg View Post
Well, I don't count the veteran reward as a legitimate bonus. 600-day-veterancy equals roughly 20 months of payment which is around 300 $ (!!!) - for "free"...

Yes, it was a free VA-ship prior to F2P (I was a subscriber back in the days) - but now it's not anymore. 600-day reward see above. And yes, let the oddysey have that, too. Why not? Grant the Bortas some built-in ability too, of course. A universal ensign for the negh'var would be nice indeed, but keep in mind that the negh'var is a FREE ship. The Gal-R isn't.

And even though it's 500Z cheaper than an oddysey (which is a weak argument since the only ships the Gal can compete with are FREE ones) no one says that it should get exactly the same or be superior to any of the more expensive ones. Plain energy boni, universal ensign, built-in ability. Everything else can stay the same.
Well if you gave the oddy pr thej bort one of their abilitys build in you break them.
That aside what ive been saying is the only thing that needs to be done is add mor useful ensign level powers. If you had better choices for that 3rd ensigh you could then be more effective. As I stated, the engineer ensign gets the fewest available powers so this is why it seems the galaxy is weaker than the other cruisers. The fact that it was one and to some extent is still free is why most of whats being requested will never happen, there is no money in it. Compared to ships in its price range (which is where I was comparing it)its exactly even in terms of power and utility.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 42
09-16-2012, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
Actualy I was comparing the base stats only since the difference between the BOff setups is just an ensign and I mentioned this here "The only real difference between these ships in the ensign level BO slot. So the real problem is the same as the defiant r and the intrepid r, there arent enough useful ensign level powers to really use 3 ensign slots for one career.". I went on to suggest how to make it stronger "A simple solution would be to allow you to use any costume on the t5 and up cuisers."(snip). As for testing I own all of the ships in question and don't generaly find my shields any weaker than in any other ship. What i do find is that combat takes longer and I lack a diversity in my healing abilitys. Mainly its due to the global cool downs on most engineering abilitys. An example is in a Dread I can run; 2 epts 1's 2 tt 1's 1 rsp 1 or 2 and a TS1 giving me at any time 3 shield heals and 1 shield buff. on a galaxy I can only run one TT so I loose that and with all ept powers on a shared cool down the only thing available for an 3rd ensign engineer is an ET 1 which is useless for shield healing and generaly useless for any meaningful hull heal it will also put my TT into cooldown.

The fact is that no evidence has been provided to support your theory that the galaxy R is some how weaker stat wise and with no evidence to suggest that it's base stats are different from that of any of the other cruisers I compared it with what we are left with is only your general impression that it is some how inferior. I also note that at no point in this thread has any one seriously suggested a change or fix to the existing ship other than that it should be as powerful as it was in the show or that it get a universal ensign. I have only seen assumptions made that it must be inferior because the developers don't like it or tng or you some how.
Evidence don't come with the stats because when look at your status screen showing shield face HP, resistance, recharge, and power levels, they well say one thing and yet when you play, they will perform not according to the stats. I have my Dreadnought and Galaxy-R set up exactly the same way accept for the extra Tac console. The extra tac console is a prefire chamber for cannons so it shouldn't make my phaser beams more powerful the the Galax-R with two Phaser weapon consoles. Both of their power levels are the exact same, 125. When I play, my Dreadnought phaser beams on the rear really wear down the enemy shields and hull, while my Galaxy-R( while having 3 more beams broadsiding) srtuggle to wear down the enemy's shields, let alone the their hull. My shields HP are the same on both ships and are the same type of covarient shield lvl12 with plasma resistance yet my shield is less resistant in action and wears away faster than my Dreadnought. You see, evidence is not in the game stats, it's in the programing. The stats match but the performance is different. The Devs programed the Galaxy to be weaker, no matter what you put in it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 43
09-16-2012, 09:49 AM
Three questions to the complainers:

1) Are you using saucer seperation?
2) Is your weapon power set to xxx/100?
3) Are you running dual copies of EPtW?

If the answer to any of those three questions is a "No", then you're doing it wrong, it'd not the ship that's the problem, it'd be YOU!

Saucer Seperation gives +10 Weapon Power. That's not much less increase over cruiser baseline as another Tac Console would be. Or from an other perspective: with Saucer Seperation, you total +15 Weapon Power, same as an Escort(!).
If your weapon power is low, then your weapons won't deal damage. Especially on a cruiser with 4+4 weapon slots.
EPtW gives another boost to weapon power, buffering the drain that a cruiser's loadout will inevitably cause.
(Yes, power over 125 has an effect! It counters drain. Very useful if shooting multiple weapons.)


But, for yet another persepctive:
Current DPS-potential of all T5 non-fleet Cruisers, assuming 6-beam configs.

#11: (Mirror) Star Cruiser. 2 Tac Consoles, Lt. Tac, +5 Power. The Cruiser baseline.
#10: Galaxy-R. 2 Tac Consoles, Lt. Tac, +15 Power due to Saucer Sep. ~10% improvement over baseline.
#9: (Mirror) Assault Cruiser. 3 Tac Consoles, Lt.+Ens. Tac, +5 Power. About 5% improvement over the Galaxy-R.
#8: Excelsior-R. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr Tac, +5 Power. Less than 5% improvement over the Assault Cruiser.
#7: Ops-Odissey. 2 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +15 Power due to Saucer Sep. Less than 5% improvement over the Excelsior-R.
#5A: Regent. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universal), +10 Power. About 5% improvement over the Ops-Ody.
#5B: Tac-Odissey. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +10 Power. Ties with the Regent.
#4 Sci-Odissey. 2 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac, +0 Power, Sensor Scan. Up to ~10% improvement over the Tac-Odissey, but only in prolonged fights >1 min.
#3 Tac-Odissey /w Ops-Console. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +20 Power. Minor increase over Sci-Ody peak damage, but constant; also: can cheat and use 7- or 8-beam setups.
#2 Sci-Odissey /w Ops Console. 2 Tac Consoles, CCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +10 Power, Sensor Scan. Up to 10% improvement over Tac-Ody (6-beam) and very minor increase over Tac-Ody (7/8-beam), but only in prolonged fights >1 min.
#1 Dreadnought. 3 Tac Consoles, Lt+Ens Tac, +5 Power, Phaser Lance, cheats by using DCs/DHCs+Turrets.
#0 Dreadnought /w Saucer Seperation (to be released yet). 3 Tac Consoles, Lt+Ens Tac, +15 Power, Phaser Shotgun, uses DCs/DHCs+Turrets. Equals or even exceeds KDF Battle Cruisers.

Now .... where excactly do you want the Galaxy-R to come in?
Above the ship that replaced it? (Sovereign)
Above the ship that was originally designed as a Tactical Fast Response Cruiser, and refitted for that same purpose when the Galaxy was already in service? (Excelsior)
Above the ship that replaced the ship that replaced the Galaxy? (Ody)
Above the state-of-the-art-2409-refit of the ship that replaced the Galaxy? (Regent)
Above the $50 P2W version of the ship that replaced the ship that replaced the Galaxy? (Tac/Sci-Ody /w Ops console)
Or even above the UFP Battle Cruiser from another timeline? (Dread)

Let's be real honest: compared to all the other T5 cruisers, the Galaxy is excactly where it should be.
And the differences between each of them is barely noticeable already, it's just that looking from the bottom upwards makes it seem that way, though the total range is something like +70% over baseline, no more (~3k dps for a baseline Star Cruiser, up to ~5k dps for a KDF Battle Cruiser of comperable gear). It's not even possible to have them closer together without turning it into a same/same with different skins.

So, what excactly are you asking for?

Last edited by flekh; 09-16-2012 at 10:00 AM.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 44
09-16-2012, 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Evidence don't come with the stats because when look at your status screen showing shield face HP, resistance, recharge, and power levels, they well say one thing and yet when you play, they will perform not according to the stats. I have my Dreadnought and Galaxy-R set up exactly the same way accept for the extra Tac console. The extra tac console is a prefire chamber for cannons so it shouldn't make my phaser beams more powerful the the Galax-R with two Phaser weapon consoles. Both of their power levels are the exact same, 125. When I play, my Dreadnought phaser beams on the rear really wear down the enemy shields and hull, while my Galaxy-R( while having 3 more beams broadsiding) srtuggle to wear down the enemy's shields, let alone the their hull. My shields HP are the same on both ships and are the same type of covarient shield lvl12 with plasma resistance yet my shield is less resistant in action and wears away faster than my Dreadnought. You see, evidence is not in the game stats, it's in the programing. The stats match but the performance is different. The Devs programed the Galaxy to be weaker, no matter what you put in it.
More weapons firing means more drain which mean your weapons won't hit as hard. What are you using in your tac ensign slots on the dread? Why are you gimping your dread with a prefire chamber? On your R what are you running in your engineering ensign slots? Where are you putting the sep console, and what are you sacraficing for it?
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 45
09-16-2012, 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
Consider this, it may well be just as powerful as it was in the show but almost 50 years have passed and we are several generations of shipping in the future so everything its being compared to is just more powerful than it ever was.

Also the ensign powers need looked at across the board, engineering may be the worst but generaly there aren't very many utility powers available below LT.

Tactical has beam, torpedo, and team powers at ensign and they only share a cool down with like systems so its only a real problem if you aren't using one of those weapons types

Science probably has the most variety but 3 of the powers are almost useless.

Engineering really gets the shaft with 4 of its 5 available powers all sharing a cooldown and its only other power sharing a cool down with the other 2 discipline's utility powers.
Contradicting yourself, you forgot about the tier 5 B'rel Bird of prey, Defiant, Prometheus, Excelsior-Ret, Nehg'var, K'tinga, Vorcha, D'kora Ferangi ship, Galor, and the Jem'hadar attack ship. Those are all tier 5 designs that are over 50 years old yet they bring alot of power and damage with them. Some are actually over a hundred years old, like the B'rel, K'ting, and the Excelsior. The Jem'hadar attack ship didn't have cannons in the show but single beams, forward and aft, and it was not a tough ship, just mass produced. If humans or other sentient beings use and old body design, its is known that they would upgrade them to current spects to use them for current situations. Just step outside of your house for once and look at the real world and think of all the old things we still use but have upgaded them to current safety and perfomance standards. Example, I just got out the Army and know that the M1 Abrams tank was made for the 80's but 30 years later, we are still using it. Keeping the same body, we just upgraded the systems to be more computerized to perfom faster and better.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 46
09-16-2012, 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
Only galaxys can use THAT seperation console the oddy has the same thing. And no c-store ship past RA or BG has a console that can be used on other ships. AMS is a galaxy console and can be used on any other ship regardless. And cryptic has said that c-store ships with innate abilitys will never have fleet versions. BTW AMS theta radiation and asceton assimilator are used constantly. The tachyon grid is broken at the moment which is why no one uses it. Also saucer sep, detection grid, ablative generator, and the 2 fed cloaking ships used to be innate powers pre F2P they were removed and a console slot was added as well as the power being changed to a console. So if you want to go back you are still out that console slot.
Dude, read the whole sentence before you answer with an argument. I said those abilities are rarely used in the "Show", duh.
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Posts: 1,618
# 47
09-16-2012, 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Contradicting yourself, you forgot about the tier 5 B'rel Bird of prey, Defiant, Prometheus, Excelsior-Ret, Nehg'var, K'tinga, Vorcha, D'kora Ferangi ship, Galor, and the Jem'hadar attack ship. Those are all tier 5 designs that are over 50 years old yet they bring alot of power and damage with them. Some are actually over a hundred years old, like the B'rel, K'ting, and the Excelsior. The Jem'hadar attack ship didn't have cannons in the show but single beams, forward and aft, and it was not a tough ship, just mass produced. If humans or other sentient beings use and old body design, its is known that they would upgrade them to current spects to use them for current situations. Just step outside of your house for once and look at the real world and think of all the old things we still use but have upgaded them to current safety and perfomance standards. Example, I just got out the Army and know that the M1 Abrams tank was made for the 80's but 30 years later, we are still using it. Keeping the same body, we just upgraded the systems to be more computerized to perfom faster and better.
Actualy that was a seperate comment directed toward a canon reason for this and onlt this ship. In startrek the age of the ship rarely makes a difference. And in STO they are merely costumes to begin with as the monarch and celestial are supposed to be modern versions of the galaxy. But this does highlight that canon and STO have little to do with eachother so trying to adapt canon reasoning is pointless. In the end i stand by my claims that it isn't the ship its the lack of utility in the lower level powers.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 48
09-16-2012, 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Dude, read the whole sentence before you answer with an argument. I said those abilities are rarely used in the "Show", duh.
My bad must have missed that no need to get snippy.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 49
09-16-2012, 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flekh View Post
Three questions to the complainers:

1) Are you using saucer seperation?
2) Is your weapon power set to xxx/100?
3) Are you running dual copies of EPtW?

If the answer to any of those three questions is a "No", then you're doing it wrong, it'd not the ship that's the problem, it'd be YOU!

Saucer Seperation gives +10 Weapon Power. That's not much less increase over cruiser baseline as another Tac Console would be. Or from an other perspective: with Saucer Seperation, you total +15 Weapon Power, same as an Escort(!).
If your weapon power is low, then your weapons won't deal damage. Especially on a cruiser with 4+4 weapon slots.
EPtW gives another boost to weapon power, buffering the drain that a cruiser's loadout will inevitably cause.
(Yes, power over 125 has an effect! It counters drain. Very useful if shooting multiple weapons.)

for yet another persepctive:
Current DPS-potential of all T5 non-fleet Cruisers, assuming 6-beam configs.

#11: (Mirror) Star Cruiser. 2 Tac Consoles, Lt. Tac, +5 Power. The Cruiser baseline.
#10: Galaxy-R. 2 Tac Consoles, Lt. Tac, +15 Power due to Saucer Sep. ~10% improvement over baseline.
#9: (Mirror) Assault Cruiser. 3 Tac Consoles, Lt.+Ens. Tac, +5 Power. About 5% improvement over the Galaxy-R.
#8: Excelsior-R. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr Tac, +5 Power. Less than 5% improvement over the Assault Cruiser.
#7: Ops-Odissey. 2 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +15 Power due to Saucer Sep. Less than 5% improvement over the Excelsior-R.
#5A: Regent. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universal), +10 Power. About 5% improvement over the Ops-Ody.
#5B: Tac-Odissey. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +10 Power. Ties with the Regent.
#4 Sci-Odissey. 2 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac, +0 Power, Sensor Scan. Up to ~10% improvement over the Tac-Odissey, but only in prolonged fights >1 min.
#3 Tac-Odissey /w Ops-Console. 3 Tac Consoles, LCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +20 Power. Minor increase over Sci-Ody peak damage, but constant; also: can cheat and use 7- or 8-beam setups.
#2 Sci-Odissey /w Ops Console. 2 Tac Consoles, CCdr+Lt+Ens Tac (due to universals), +10 Power, Sensor Scan. Up to 10% improvement over Tac-Ody (6-beam) and very minor increase over Tac-Ody (7/8-beam), but only in prolonged fights >1 min.
#1 Dreadnought. 3 Tac Consoles, Lt+Ens Tac, +5 Power, Phaser Lance, cheats by using DCs/DHCs+Turrets.
#0 Dreadnought /w Saucer Seperation (to be released yet). 3 Tac Consoles, Lt+Ens Tac, +15 Power, Phaser Shotgun, uses DCs/DHCs+Turrets. Equals or even exceeds KDF Battle Cruisers.

Now .... where excactly do you want the Galaxy-R to come in?
Above the ship that replaced it? (Sovereign)
Above the ship that was originally designed as a Tactical Fast Response Cruiser, and refitted for that same purpose when the Galaxy was already in service? (Excelsior)
Above the ship that replaced the ship that replaced the Galaxy? (Ody)
Above the state-of-the-art-2409-refit of the ship that replaced the Galaxy? (Regent)
Above the $50 P2W version of the ship that replaced the ship that replaced the Galaxy? (Tac/Sci-Ody /w Ops console)
Or even above the UFP Battle Cruiser from another timeline? (Dread)

Let's be real honest: compared to all the other T5 cruisers, the Galaxy is excactly where it should be.
And the differences between each of them is barely noticeable already, it's just that looking from the bottom upwards makes it seem that way, though the total range is something like +70% over baseline, no more (~3k dps for a baseline Star Cruiser, up to ~5k dps for a KDF Battle Cruiser of comperable gear). It's not even possible to have them closer together without turning it into a same/same with different skins.

So, what excactly are you asking for?
You are wrong for assuming everyone on complaining about the Galaxy are idiots. We know the whats the stats say and what happens, when you separate the sauser. If my ship is at weapon power level 125 already before sauser separtaion, then what do you think it will add after separation? Nothing, because there is a power cap, duh. I have yet to see another player using the Galaxy-R in PVP not use sauser separation. Everybody knows, that once you die, you have to wait 5 minutes before you can separate and you will be stuck with slow turning "billboard" ship thats easy to kill.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 50
09-16-2012, 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
You are wrong for assuming everyone on complaining about the Galaxy are idiots. We know the whats the stats say and what happens, when you separate the sauser. If my ship is at weapon power level 125 already before sauser separtaion, then what do you think it will add after separation? Nothing, because there is a power cap, duh. I have yet to see another player using the Galaxy-R in PVP not use sauser separation. Everybody knows, that once you die, you have to wait 5 minutes before you can separate and you will be stuck with slow turning "billboard" ship thats easy to kill.
See? You're wrong!
Weapon power is capped at 125, true, but excess power is used to counter drain. You could have read that in the quoted post already, but missed it.
Let's show you the difference:

Star Cruiser, +10 Power from skills, +5 from Cruiser, +5 from Borg Console
versus
Star Cruiser, +10 Power from skills, +5 from Cruiser, +5 from Borg Console, +20 from constant EPtW1.

#1 fire sequence: Beam1: 120 power, Beam2: 110 power, Beam 3: 100 power, Beam 4: 90 power, Beam 5: 80 power, Beam 6: 70 power, followed by 18 more shots at 70 power until all beams go on cooldown and power recovers. Average Power/shot: 76.25

#2 fire sequence: Beam 1: 125 power (of 140), Beam 2: 125 power (of 130), Beam 3: 120 power, Beam 4, 110 power, Beam 5: 100 power, Beam 6: 90 power, followed by 18 more shots at 90 power until all beams go on cooldown and power recovers. Average Power/shot: 95.42

An increase of 25.14% in damage!

Yes, it really does work that way! Try it!
That's what's causing most "whhhaaaaw. Cruisers suck! whhaaaaaw!"-threads.
People that don't get how power drain works.
And this one is no different.
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