Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1
i tried search, but curious about the actual crit bonus for antiproton weapons. For instance, is it better to have antiproton with none or +2% crit vs. phased tetryon w/ +4% crit?

aside from the fact there is no crit bonus effect like reducing shields, etc
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,119
# 2
09-17-2012, 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich808 View Post
i tried search, but curious about the actual crit bonus for antiproton weapons. For instance, is it better to have antiproton with none or +2% crit vs. phased tetryon w/ +4% crit?

aside from the fact there is no crit bonus effect like reducing shields, etc
Criticals can be organized into two groups:
1) Critical Hit (crth or crith) - increases your odds of getting a critical hit. Generally, each crith modifier gives you +2%.
2) Critical Severity (crtd or critd) - increases the damage dealt when you do get a critical hit. Each modifier gives you +20%.

Antiproton gets a +20% critd, and Dual Heavy Cannon gets a +10% to critd.

I prefer critd over crith. If you were to get a weapon with [crith]x3, it increases your odds of getting a critical by 6%. On the other hand, going with [critd]x3 increases your damage from critical hits by 60%.

Are you looking at space or ground weapons? I use Antiproton for my ground weapons.

But, for space, I used to use Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons [critd]x2 [dmg], as it has 70% critical severity. A few months back, I have since switched to Phaser Dual Heavy Cannons [critd]x3. Slightly less damage on equal Marks, but I get the phaser proc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 177
# 3
09-17-2012, 09:24 PM
IT's actually an interesting topic, and one that you can jump around on based on opinion. I use Antiproton almost exclusively on my federation tactical toon, and it seems too rip things too shreds. But I've been wondering about certain types of weapons, and how much more I could get out of them. There are some basic agreed upon types that you shouldn't use, one of which is plasma. Most of the others are debatable, mainly based on procs. Do you really get more damage out of a DritD x3 phaser/polaron/tetryon weapon because of the proc, or out of an antiproton CritDx3. The ones I use are critDx2 acc ones, and they seem too have a lot of potential. Still curious how much more I'd get out of other weapon types.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 4
09-18-2012, 12:37 AM
Here's the deal. AP has no abilities. It has no nasty little side-effects that make you laugh while your target swears. It's designed for straight out, pure, unadulterated damage output. You want to wax your target in seconds with crits that make it crap itself? Go with AP. It gives you naturally harder hitting crits. But if you want procs that make your target cry, like extra shield damage, defense busting, or subsystem derping (the main reason that life can suck sometimes as a KDF captain), then you use other things.

But that's what AP is for. It is used to basically bludgeon targets to death. Nothing fancy, nothing pretty, just pound it til it drops.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,119
# 5
09-18-2012, 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insanerandomnes View Post
Do you really get more damage out of a DritD x3 phaser/polaron/tetryon weapon because of the proc, or out of an antiproton CritDx3. The ones I use are critDx2 acc ones, and they seem too have a lot of potential. Still curious how much more I'd get out of other weapon types.
I have yet to see an Antiproton [critd]x3 DHC MK XI or XII on the exchange. If there were, I'm sure they would be insanely expensive and would sold very quickly. My Phaser DHCs MK XII have a higher DPS than my Antiproton DHCs MK XI with [critd]x2 [dmg]. I think the phasers I use will make up for the slightly less accuracy and I get the phaser proc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Here's the deal. AP has no abilities. It has no nasty little side-effects that make you laugh while your target swears. It's designed for straight out, pure, unadulterated damage output. You want to wax your target in seconds with crits that make it crap itself? Go with AP. It gives you naturally harder hitting crits. But if you want procs that make your target cry, like extra shield damage, defense busting, or subsystem derping (the main reason that life can suck sometimes as a KDF captain), then you use other things.

But that's what AP is for. It is used to basically bludgeon targets to death. Nothing fancy, nothing pretty, just pound it til it drops.
But, seeing how there is no [critd]x3 or even mk XII cannons on the exchange (if they even exist at all), if you can get Disruptors or Phasers with [critd]x3, they will pretty much match or exceed the DPS of the Antiproton energy while still having the same amount of critical severity. You end up losing out to the other types for their procs.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 290
# 6
09-18-2012, 04:24 PM
So what's the deal with [DMG]? Is this any better than [CritD]? The Fleet weapons are [DMG]x3 + ____. Are these better than the XII borg weapons?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,119
# 7
09-18-2012, 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonulinu2 View Post
So what's the deal with [DMG]? Is this any better than [CritD]? The Fleet weapons are [DMG]x3 + ____. Are these better than the XII borg weapons?
Let's say you have a MK XII weapon and it does 250 DPS (I'm rounding down.

DMG gives you about 5 more DPS. If you fired 10 shots, you would do (250 + 5) x 10 = 2,550

CritD gives you 20% one your critical hits. If you fired 10 shots and got 1 critical hit, you would do (250 x 9) + (250 +20%) = 2,550

If you have DMGx3, and fired 10 shots, you would do (250+15) x 10 = 2,650

If you have CritDx3, and fired 10 shots with one critical, you would do (250 x 9) + (250 + 60%) = 2,650

Math from the basic damage seems to be equal. But, let's say after all of your skill, subsystem, and console modifiers you increase your weapon's DPS to 1,000.

With DMGx3, and 10 shots fired, you would do (1,000 + 15) x 10 = 10,150.

With CritD, and 10 shots fired with one critical, you would do (1,000 x 9) + (1000 + 60%) = 10,600.

Now, throw in your Tactical Buffs, and you can get your DPS up to 3,000 (rounded down, most likely).

With DMGx3, and 10 shots fired, you would do (3,000 + 15) x 10 = 30,150

With CritD, and 10 shots fired with one critical, you would do (3,000 x 9) + (3,000 + 60%) = 31,800

Granted, I am not accounting for the increase in damage you get from the subsystem, console, skills, and abilities. Frankly the increase on 5 extra damage (from one DMG modifier) is not going to make a significant increase, compared to the over all damage you get from just one critical hit.

Sometimes you may get two critical hits in a 10 shot volley. Really depends on your luck.

But, in summary, the static increase is not nearly as much as a percentage increase when your skills, subsystems, consoles, and ability modifiers comes in to play.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 68
# 8
09-18-2012, 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
Let's say you have a MK XII weapon and it does 250 DPS (I'm rounding down.

DMG gives you about 5 more DPS. If you fired 10 shots, you would do (250 + 5) x 10 = 2,550

CritD gives you 20% one your critical hits. If you fired 10 shots and got 1 critical hit, you would do (250 x 9) + (250 +20%) = 2,550

If you have DMGx3, and fired 10 shots, you would do (250+15) x 10 = 2,650

If you have CritDx3, and fired 10 shots with one critical, you would do (250 x 9) + (250 + 60%) = 2,650

Math from the basic damage seems to be equal. But, let's say after all of your skill, subsystem, and console modifiers you increase your weapon's DPS to 1,000.

With DMGx3, and 10 shots fired, you would do (1,000 + 15) x 10 = 10,150.

With CritD, and 10 shots fired with one critical, you would do (1,000 x 9) + (1000 + 60%) = 10,600.

Now, throw in your Tactical Buffs, and you can get your DPS up to 3,000 (rounded down, most likely).

With DMGx3, and 10 shots fired, you would do (3,000 + 15) x 10 = 30,150

With CritD, and 10 shots fired with one critical, you would do (3,000 x 9) + (3,000 + 60%) = 31,800

Granted, I am not accounting for the increase in damage you get from the subsystem, console, skills, and abilities. Frankly the increase on 5 extra damage (from one DMG modifier) is not going to make a significant increase, compared to the over all damage you get from just one critical hit.

Sometimes you may get two critical hits in a 10 shot volley. Really depends on your luck.

But, in summary, the static increase is not nearly as much as a percentage increase when your skills, subsystems, consoles, and ability modifiers comes in to play.
I just wanted to correct you on the (DMG) modifier. Technically, for beam arrays you are correct, in that a single (dmg) modifier here is worth 5 energy damage.

However, I did a small bit of number crunching, and it turns out that the relationship between (dmg) and base damage is slightly more complicated. Fundamentally, a weapon of a certain mark that has 2 [dmg] modifiers will do the same base damage as that weapon type of a mark higher

To illustrate: in terms of base damage (prior to the introduction of your skill sets), a...
Disruptor Beam Array Mk I (dmg)x2 = Disruptor Beam Array Mk II
Quantum Torpedo Mk VIII (dmg)x2 = Quantum Torpedo Mk IX
Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons XI (dmg)x2 = Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons XII

and so on

It's not the energy type that fits into the equation, but rather what type of weapon it is. I'm not sure if the same rule applies to ground weapons.



Still, dmg modifiers aren't accepted to be the best out there, as Acc, CritH and CritD certainly outperform Dmg. From what I can gather as a lowly noob of PVP play, damage spikes are key, thus making each (CritD) modifier extremely potent. But you might want to invest in the 10% bonus that each (Acc) gives you. Have a read through this thread for more info on that. Here, it tells you if your accuracy trumps their defence, you can do bonus damage and gain a higher chance for even harder hitting critical hits, the amounts of which increase based on the difference between your ACC and their DEF

Also, to answer one of your earlier questions, plain ol' Tetryon weapons have a space and ground proc to remove some shield (facing), but would be completely useless directly against hull/flesh
The Spice Must Flow...

Last edited by spessmehreen; 09-18-2012 at 08:20 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 321
# 9
09-19-2012, 12:19 AM
AP require crit % to function as intended, whether that's through accuracy (weapon targeting) bleed-over, weapon specialization (both skills) the weapons own bonus(s) and/or buffs such as attack pattern alpha. anti-proton must crit otherwise crit severity bonus is useless and it does no more raw damage than any other weapon.

don't get why that part is consistently overlooked when people recommend AP weapons. they're only useful on specific skill builds. without the skills or the buffs tetryon comes out on top for the fact it can strip all shield facing at once besides the one being targeted. in fact disruptors are much better if you're not set up for tetryons (flow capacitors skilled) and not skilled for getting crits.
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7
# 10
09-19-2012, 04:49 AM
I flew nothing but AP for the longest time. They crit harder then any other weapon system. That is their proc as opposed to the other weapons which debuff or disable.

However I recently switched my escort to run full disruptor. The proc always gets added when i fire, mostly because my turrets are constantly firing at the target. Stack an attack pattern beta on top of that and you really tick someone off cause you just turned thier ship into paper from all the damage resistance debuffs. With my current boff set-up the disrupto proc + beta 3 = -60 Resistance. Also the disruptor proc helps not just your damage but the whole teams.

Play to what you want to play. You want insane crits, AP. You want to torment the other while you shred them, use whatever weapon system you like really.
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