Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 574
# 21
09-18-2012, 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smazazel View Post
I got an idea get rid of pvp and stop nerfing things because pvp minority whines about balance. I want my stuff to work in pve. just get rid of pvp or nerf only pvp leave my pve alone.

Even better, just touch random keys )or roll your head on the keyboard if you're getting bored) and bang, you're done. Anyways, mr pve hero, npcs don't resist drains as far as I know (and to damn bad, since some abilities activated by npcs would be awesome, it would make pveers think more about how they build their ships so they won't die in 10 secs in pvp), and the siphon fix won't affect pve at all if done right. All we want is to be fixed So it's properly resisted.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...

Last edited by trueprom3theus; 09-18-2012 at 06:33 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 574
# 22
09-18-2012, 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Other MMO games have separate gear for PVP and PVE. How about this, why not make it like PVE gear only and not affective for PVP?
A while ago devs stated they don't want to go separate ways due to maintenability issues.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 32
# 23
09-18-2012, 06:51 PM
fix the danubes first then the siphon drones. i agree the siphon drones are op but so are the danubes. u get tb'ed by 5-6 danubes and not even omega can keep u moving fast enough to have a decent defense rating. its not much of a problem against the atrox but against an armitage its a big problem. make the danubes atrox only. and yes cap the drain on siphon drones.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
# 24
09-18-2012, 06:52 PM
Why not just make 'em like time bombs along the lines of dontdrunkimshoots suggestions. After they siphon off so much energy they explode dealing damage in a small AoE, with the damage based on the amount of energy drained or the amount of time spent drawing power if that'd be easier to track? This allows them to keep their debuffing ability while removing the "HA! I win 'cuz you can do nothing lols" situation, and gives them some small amount of crowd control and, well, a nice bit of oompf if the enemy team isn't taking time to police spam and keep their teammates from getting drained and popped.

[EDIT]

That's a bit like the Limpet drones from Homeworld: Cataclysm, come to think of it.

/suggestion
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,691
# 25
09-18-2012, 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueprom3theus View Post
Even better, just touch random keys )or roll your head on the keyboard if you're getting bored) and bang, you're done. Anyways, mr pve hero, npcs don't resist drains as far as I know (and to damn bad, since some abilities activated by npcs would be awesome, it would make pveers think more about how they build their ships so they won't die in 10 secs in pvp), and the siphon fix won't affect pve at all if done right. All we want is to be fixed So it's properly resisted.
Now THIS is a good idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 38
# 26
09-18-2012, 07:53 PM
I don't actually know if there's something wrong with Siphons themselves, or other elements. So this brings me to some questions.

1: Should siphons even benefit from flow caps? (I have no idea if other hangars benefit from various skills)

2: Are Power Insulators correctly fighting off the drain?

3: Does (or should) pumping power way past 125 fight off power drain?

4: Should there be a cap in place, similar to things like Plasmonic Leech?

5: Will any changes make a difference in PvE due to how NPCs are set up?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,489
# 27
09-18-2012, 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair114 View Post
Why not just make 'em like time bombs along the lines of dontdrunkimshoots suggestions. After they siphon off so much energy they explode dealing damage in a small AoE, with the damage based on the amount of energy drained or the amount of time spent drawing power if that'd be easier to track? This allows them to keep their debuffing ability while removing the "HA! I win 'cuz you can do nothing lols" situation, and gives them some small amount of crowd control and, well, a nice bit of oompf if the enemy team isn't taking time to police spam and keep their teammates from getting drained and popped.

[EDIT]

That's a bit like the Limpet drones from Homeworld: Cataclysm, come to think of it.

/suggestion
The main problem would be the Flight Deck Doffs which reduce the deployment cooldown rate allows pets to be spammed circumventing what you're trying to accomplish.

Perhaps an immunity to siphon drone drains for 10 seconds after being under the effect for 15 seconds w/1-3 drain/sec per drone based on resistance and flow caps, w/a max of 3 drone effects per target? This would end up w/45-135 drain depending on resists/flow cap at peak drain time of 15 seconds. The immunity would only be from pet siphon drains, but would apply to respawned pets or pets from another player.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,212
# 28
09-18-2012, 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Is it really necessary to allow players to have 7 Advanced Energy Siphon drones? Whats with the power draining as a fighting techneque because I don't know an active defense against it? When you have players that can just sit back and drain other players without having to fight whlie NPC's do all the work, destroys the balance in the game. These siphon drones are too tough to be destroy in tractor repulsor beam unless I use aux batteries but when i run out, then what? While you are busy trying to destroying the siphons which are tough like advanced runabouts, the player is destroying you. What ever happened to Player versus Player and the test of skill? PVP in STO has become Player with the deepest pocket wins, Player versus environment controlled by player, Player versus cheat codes. When people are allowed to be indestructable then the game is no longer competition.

Energy sighons are a bad idea and don't show skill at all, just laziness.
I don't know. But if siphons are nerfed, Danube tractors need the same bat.
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 172
# 29
09-18-2012, 08:59 PM
So, to sum it up does siphon drones suck or blow?
Serious note why not just remove drones or fix skill tree resist. Make a new console that resists it? Reduce cd to 1 min for that auto turret.
-------------------------


Future Capt Gecko II Hitlers take on PvP
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,918
# 30
09-18-2012, 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
We've been looking into the complaints about Siphon Drones and trying to figure out a balanced way of decreasing their effectiveness without diminishing to the point of making them feel like a wasted hangar slot.

Honestly, it's not easy to find that balancing point.

We've considered reducing their hitpoints, which would make them more susceptible to AOE damage countermeasures. This, in essence, makes it easier to counter them, but only if you have the proper powers equipped, and are not currently on cooldown. However, it presents the very negative experience to the owner of having their drones quickly dispatched without them having the chance to do their thing.

We've also tried having their drain-per-tick be based off of a percentage of the target's current power, but that actually managed to make them more effective, rather than less. Any subsystem running at low power was barely effected, while high-power systems took a major pounding. We didn't feel that was intuitive. Also, it still took systems offline almost as quickly since the minimum it could drain per tick was still 1 energy (magnitude rounding) and the initial uptick of drain was faster.

I guess that's a long-winded way of saying, we're trying to find a solution to a mechanic that's not quite behaving the way we'd like it to in PvP, and haven't yet come across one that we like. But we'll keep looking.
Got a few things about that I'd like to express. The first one is how they are taking systems offline due to the fact the changes you made earlier in the year that prevented them from doing such where the maximum you could do was take all subsystem power to 2. Taking it to 2 from my experience took almost every single drain in the game all piled up into one build unless you have changed something recently that I am unaware of.

The solution, possible solution, or ideas on how to make it better are first to look at what they are and in game/soft-canon of what they are. First they are classified as nausicaan technology but no nausicaan ship in this game has a hangar. The second things Power Siphon leads one to believe that it is Siphoning the power and one would think it would be taking power from a target to convert to the owner. I have a few toons that use the advanced siphon pods so what I would recommend is first at the least give that fleet nausicaan ship a hangar and make it a flight deck/makes it our version of the armitage for the KDF all in one swoop(on fed side mission content these same ships as fleet one launch them anyways so why not). Then from the point of them siphoning power and giving to the owner give them some kind of reasonable % chance that it can actually knock a random subsystem offline like phasers do.

I think these are good trade offs/balance for give and take on what they should be doing. It settles their function and those who don't carry the counters to them (which there are counters but some may not choose to use them due to they are one of many powers that an enemy may or not be using) can counter them a little bit more easily but they would still have their desired effect.
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