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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
I was on an alt last night, brand new KDF captain, doing some of the FE's when I came across this:

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/...psd53eacce.jpg

A couple of minutes later I had to kill one

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/...ps653ec318.jpg

And lastly closer to the end of the space section of this FE I came across this:

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5c00be27.jpg

As you can see from the time stamp on these screen shots, they were all taken within a 5 minute period, all are also untouched with the UI showing.
This leads me to believe that my theory of Raptors (Qin in particular) is being overlayed on the battle cruiser flight mesh instead of it's own, or the fed escort one.

What I cannot fathom is if those particular spawns in that mission are "working as intended" or if they are actually bugged, and to be honest, either way, I don't care.
Instead, I would rather like to know if the Qin's fatal turn flaw is "working as intended" or just yet more proof that bugs and issues on the KDF side are unimportant enough to be looked into and corrected.

Addendum: I am not posting this for a bug report, nor to troll, create unrest, incite anger, or anything else of the like. I am posting this to bring to the attention of the Dev's which will hopefully lead to it being corrected, as well as the KDF players to support what I have posted in the past about the Raptor class ships (those that have read my posts will understand this).
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 2
09-24-2012, 05:09 AM
The Qin being overlayed onto a Cruiser frame would certainly explain the poor turn pivot.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 539
# 3
09-24-2012, 09:19 AM
I think its been fairly clear the Qin pivot is a Battlecruiser pivot point. That said, if it is in fact "as intended," there are several ways to make up for it, one suggested in the ENT "Sleeping Dogs" and the other in the color text for the Raptor Class given at the Shipyard.

1) Up the hull closer to that of a cruiser. As per ENT "Sleeping Dogs," the Raptor was capable of surviving enormous crushing pressure deep within a gas giant, without being destroyed. This is not carried over to STO.

2) The color text for the Raptor clearly states the front arc is considered absolutely deadly. If the pivot point is a balancing point for this, then either move one weapon slot from the rear to the front, or up the innate cannon DPS boost from the standard Escort 15%.


If of course the battlecruiser pivot point is not "as intended," it really needs an immediate fix, at least to the endgame Qin!
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond 'Iw HaH je Hoch!
Starbase 5-5-4-4 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 421
# 4
09-24-2012, 09:30 AM
Klingons fighting among themselves seems pretty canon to me
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 5
09-24-2012, 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnohd View Post
I think its been fairly clear the Qin pivot is a Battlecruiser pivot point. That said, if it is in fact "as intended," there are several ways to make up for it, one suggested in the ENT "Sleeping Dogs" and the other in the color text for the Raptor Class given at the Shipyard.

1) Up the hull closer to that of a cruiser. As per ENT "Sleeping Dogs," the Raptor was capable of surviving enormous crushing pressure deep within a gas giant, without being destroyed. This is not carried over to STO.

2) The color text for the Raptor clearly states the front arc is considered absolutely deadly. If the pivot point is a balancing point for this, then either move one weapon slot from the rear to the front, or up the innate cannon DPS boost from the standard Escort 15%.


If of course the battlecruiser pivot point is not "as intended," it really needs an immediate fix, at least to the endgame Qin!
Unfortunately its been satted a 5th forward weapon slot is not supported by the games engine.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 539
# 6
09-24-2012, 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Unfortunately its been satted a 5th forward weapon slot is not supported by the games engine.
Missed that, but assumed it wouldn't be possible, which is why I suggested the increase in the +15 weapons power. (which I erroneously listed as a % DPS boost - oops!)
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond 'Iw HaH je Hoch!
Starbase 5-5-4-4 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 7
09-24-2012, 11:54 AM
If the pivot can not be fixed becuase the design is set and a 5th forward weapon is not possible then an increase in Hull, shields and a 5th tactical consoles lot would be fine by me.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
# 8
09-24-2012, 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
If the pivot can not be fixed becuase the design is set and a 5th forward weapon is not possible then an increase in Hull, shields and a 5th tactical consoles lot would be fine by me.
Hull and shield point boost is unlikely to happen, recall it being said during the season 6 development that raptors already have a lot of hit points by a dev when questioned about the fleet ships. The 5th tac console would be nice tho.

As I see it, they have a few options in correcting the turn issue for the Qin model in particular:

First, realign it correctly on it's current flight mesh.

Second, adjust the turn rate of it's current flight mesh to a slightly higher value to being it in line with what it's reported to have, this may have long term issues tho and should only be a "last resort" fix of the issue.

Third, take the model off it's current flight mesh, and line it up on to the patrol escort flight mesh, this could possibly take more resources as it would need testing to get the correct alignment and tweaks as well as more coding than I feel should be needed.

And lastly, build a raptor only flight mesh to put the raptor models onto, this last option would be the most time intensive of all, which would cost the most, with a possible little to no income for it.


I think that by fixing this issue on the level 40 Qin will translate over to the Fleet Qin, or at least would hope it did, which may cause the people that like the models of the Raptors to consider purchasing the stronger (on paper) Fleet Qin Raptor from the fleet store. I know that I would be strongly tempted to move my main KDF tac captain from the lvl 40 BoP across to the Fleet Qin. But with the way things are now, i'll just keep waiting till my fleet gets to the t5 shipyard for my sci captain to get the fleet vo'quv carrier.

@palpha2clearance
I didn't screen shot the fact I was KDF fighting klingons, I screen shot a K't'inga Refit battle cruiser being called a "House Of Torg Raptor Escort" and then within 5 minutes taking the 3rd screen shot showing a Qorgh Raptor called "House Of Torg Raptor Escort".

I admit, I should have added arrows and such to the screen shots, but did not wish to enter the whole "you modded that, it's not true" argument. And yes, I did also log in to confirm I had the correct names of the ship models seen in the screen shots I posted.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 539
# 9
09-26-2012, 10:37 AM
Well, I suppose there is a little more hull already on the fleet Qin, but there is far more out of step here...


Advantages:
Fleet Patrol Escort:
~6.5% (1 degree) higher turn
7% higher shield mod
Universal Ensign
Escort pivot point.


Fleet Qin Heavy Raptor:
non-battle Cloak
~6.5% higher hull

All other stats are comparable. That shows not just the Pivot is out of balance!



To fix, pick (at least) two:
  • Increase hull by 2200 more
  • Universal Ensign
  • Shield modifier to ~1
  • 5th Tac console
  • Increase turn to 16
  • Fix Pivot

I'm all for Hull/Tac-console fix, but frankly that pivot may be worth more than 1 balance point (in which case, Universal Ensign too, please, or double up that hull increase)
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond 'Iw HaH je Hoch!
Starbase 5-5-4-4 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.

Last edited by jnohd; 09-26-2012 at 11:44 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 10
09-26-2012, 02:27 PM
A question to ask in the next ask cryptic, since it's the only way to get answers.
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